Marc Perkel, founder of the Church of Reality, a religion dedicated to the belief in everything that’s real, is calling on Atheists to give up on God. Yes, you heard it right… that Atheists should give up on God.
In a letter posted on an Atheist discussion forum, the Church of Reality urges Atheists to switch from an anti-god position to a pro-reality position, stating that Atheists are more obsessed with God than most believers are. Atheism is about what isn’t real. Realism is about what is real. Believers are more interested in what you believe in than what you don’t believe in.
Here is the letter ….
The time has come for Atheism to Evolve
.
OK people, it’s time for Atheism as we know it to die and move on to Realism. Atheism is stuck in the past because you haven’t given up God until you quit obsessing on God.
1) Atheism is about nothing.
2) Atheists think about and talk about God more than believers.
3) Atheism answers none of the great questions about anything.
4) Atheism is stuck in the past.
5) Atheism is ineffective when it comes to converting believers.
6) Atheism is about Theism – thus the name A-Theism
I think you all can agree that when something isn’t working it’s time to try something else. It’s time to move on. It’s time to GIVE UP GOD!
What do we need to do? We need to be pro-reality rather than anti-god. Being pro-reality is far more effective.
Before I go on, this is not about getting anyone to join the Church of Reality. That’s just my way of promoting reality. However, promoting reality is the right answer.
What is the basis of atheism? It’s about God not being real. Note the reality test. When you say “God is not real,” which is the important part, God or Reality? The important part is Reality because Reality is real and God is not.
Atheism causes brain damage and I will demonstrate the brain damage here. You know how you talk to Christians and no matter what you say, Christians don’t get it? That’s because Christians are brain-damaged by spending all their time thinking about what isn’t real.
When I talk to Atheists about reality, they don’t get it. That’s because, like Christians, they spend all their time thinking about what isn’t real. It’s the same thing… and if you don’t understand what I’m talking about here, it’s because of the brain damage. You aren’t going to get it until you truly give up God.
I find it frustrating that Christians have an easier time grasping Realism than Atheists do. I can explain it to a Christian and they not only get it but they are interested in it. It causes them to think. They at least understand it even if they aren’t ready to embrace it. It starts a process. They respect the idea that the pursuit of reality really has value.
My world view is that you are what you think about. If you are thinking about God, you are one of THEM. If you are thinking about reality then you are one of US. And because Atheists think about God more that Christians do, they are actually more brain-damaged.
I have never been a believer so I don’t have a reference for appreciating the God obsession. My way of comprehending Atheism is like my being in a recovery meeting with alcoholics who are all talking about not drinking. Since I’m not a drinker, not drinking isn’t something I dwell on. I just don’t drink. But my not drinking isn’t the same as a drunk not drinking. So even though I’m an atheist, I’m not an ATHEIST!
The recovery from theism may be better described as having 2 stages. The first stage is to decide that the deity isn’t real. That’s the easy part. The second stage is to quit thinking about the deity. Atheism is good for the first stage, but it totally fails the second stage… so Atheism itself is critically flawed.
Believers are not interested in what you don’t believe in. They are interested in what you do believe in… and Atheism offers NOTHING when it comes to what to believe in. So that’s what Atheism is proving to be… a failed strategy.
What should Atheists believe in? That’s easy. You can believe in what the Church of Reality believes in. Believe in everything that is real. Switch from being anti-God to pro-reality. Lose the A-Thiest identity. Change the name. Change the mission.
Atheists of Silicon Valley should become Realists of Silicon Valley. San Francisco Atheists should become San Francisco Realists. East Bay Atheists should become East Bay Realists. It changes the message. To be a Realist means that it’s about reality. To be an Atheist means that it’s about God. I am asking Atheists today to GIVE UP GOD! It’s time to get GOD out of the name ATHEISM that defines who you are!
So – how many of you Atheists out there are ready to give up God and go out and start winning souls for Darwin? If you truly believe in evolution – then let’s evolve!
I believe a lot of things. I believe my kid is intelligent as she got all As and A+s on her report card. I believe my wife loves me through all the little things she does. I believe my boss is an asshole, well, we’ll leave that one for now.
Why do I believe those things? Because all indication suggest I am correct in my assessment, BUT I also accept that I could be wrong. They could be just fooling me.
I don’t believe there is a “god” as there is no indication that he is “real”. Hey, my shoe is real, but it is a shoe. My camera is real, but it is a camera. My wedding band is real but it is only a wedding band. As real as each of these things are, and many, many more things are real, I worship none of them and accept them in my life as they effect it.
Because I don’t believe there is a “god” does not mean I worship science. I don’t. I’m grateful that scientific discoveries have made my life better than my father’s. But I don’t worship, praise, bow down, or attach any superior benefits to science. I accept science for what we (mankind) make use of.
I don’t care if you call me an atheist. That is YOUR word. If you call me atheist, don’t start attaching meanings and motives I don’t attach to my self. If you want to believe in noodly goodness or vindictive, supernatural concoctions, good for you.
Dear Mr. Mustard and Marc Perkel,
You two believe that Jesus was a large fish named Frank who gained fame in the late 80’s for eating large quantities of asparagus.
If you do not like being told what you believe then stop telling other people what they believe, how good their lives are and what they should do with them.
God is as real to me as love and beauty.
I can’t empirically prove any of the three and I certainly couldn’t defend their existence to a skeptic who doesn’t have the capacity to existentially experience them.
But my life would be pretty empty without any of the three and I’ve never really doubted them.
>>I don’t care if you call me an atheist
I don’t believe that I (or anyone else) calls you an Atheist. The only Atheists here are self-proclaimed. If you’re not an Atheist, great. If you’re an Atheist, great. If you don’t bat for one team or the other, great. If you want to ponder the mysteries of Schroedinger’s cat, great.
I have no vested interest in changing anyone’s beliefs. My only quibble with believers is when they say that their belief is not a belief.
>>But my life would be pretty empty without any >>of the three and I’ve never really doubted
>>them.
Amen, Mr. Allen. Unfortunately, many of the Angry Young Men here don’t share your point of view. They seem to get their jollies by calling your kind “sheeple”, “morans” and other disrespectful terms because your beliefs are not the same as their beliefs.
I’m an atheist and proud of it. I have nothing to impose on other people and I’m proud of it. I don’t believe in imaginary beings and I’m proud of it. I don’t kill anyone because of being an atheist and I’m proud of it. I live a life of peace, love, reality and compassion without conditions and I’m proud of it.
#57-Mister Mustard,
The situation is less like currency and more like your beliefs being the first season of the Dick VanDyke show on DvD and my beliefs being nothing at all.
>>If you do not like being told what you believe
>>then stop telling other people what they
>>believe, how good their lives are and what
>>they should do with them.
Heh heh heh. Hit a nerve there, hm Mr. Noel?
I’m only telling people here that they say what they say they believe, yet that somehow turns into a flame war. What the fuck??
——————————-
The First Noel, the Angels did say
Was to certain poor shepherds in fields as they lay
In fields where they lay keeping their sheep
On a cold winter’s night that was so deep.
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel
Born is the King of Israel!
They looked up and saw a star
Shining in the East beyond them far
And to the earth it gave great light
And so it continued both day and night.
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel
Born is the King of Israel!
And by the light of that same star
Three Wise men came from country far
To seek for a King was their intent
And to follow the star wherever it went.
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel
Born is the King of Israel!
This star drew nigh to the northwest
O’er Bethlehem it took its rest
And there it did both Pause and stay
Right o’er the place where Jesus lay.
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel
Born is the King of Israel!
Then entered in those Wise men three
Full reverently upon their knee
And offered there in His presence
Their gold and myrrh and frankincense.
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel
Born is the King of Israel!
Then let us all with one accord
Sing praises to our heavenly Lord
That hath made Heaven and earth of nought
And with his blood mankind has bought.
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel
Born is the King of Israel!
#65-Mister Mustard,
“They seem to get their jollies by calling your kind “sheeple”, “morans” and other disrespectful terms because your beliefs are not the same as their beliefs.”
This is a bit ironic, seeing as how I have never used either of those terms yet you seem to get your rocks of on telling me that I believe something. Having never met me and knowing nothing more about me aside from my being very much like an automaton, this seems reasonable disrespectful.
>>The situation is less like currency and more
>>like your beliefs being the first season of
>>the Dick VanDyke show on DvD and my beliefs
>>being nothing at all.
wtf. you’re gibbering. you make no sense.
——————————————
Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”
He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought —
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.
And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
“And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!’
He chortled in his joy.
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
If you believe in only what you can perceive, but you can only perceive what you know.
The Church of the Subgenius said it best. ALL HAIL BOB. GIVE US SLACK
#71, iIdiot,
That is nonsensical. Either your grammar is a little screwy or you are inebriated.
I think iGod is dwunk. I perceive I noticed the grammatical idiocy he showed…hic…’scuse me.
# 73, Mr. Gawd Almighty
you are as you say : iIdiot
How can you perceive what you cannot comprehend?
You only see what your mind lets you…
I found the whole “sheep” “insult” ironically amusing… I mean, I would never have thought of it myself, but I did read Psalm 23, all those years ago. Your Bible is “insulting” you, then.
We could on move on past deities except for the fact that deity archetypes are installed into every newborn. Ol’ Deity ain’t goin’ away. You have to throw him out of your own head yourself. Blather on all ye want.
#52 – Mister Mustard,
Spirituality doesn’t require anything supernatural. Maybe I’ll give it a try at the dentist office in the morning. I’ll try skipping the Novocaine. Let’s see if I can transcend dental medication.
#55 – iGod,
I have no idea at all what point you are trying to make.
#57 – Mister Mustard,
I doubt that even Scottie would say that I’ve ever tried to “cram [my] religion down [his] throat
Doubt all you want, but you are a master of the soft sell proselytizing. And, yeah, pushing spirituality in the way you do is indeed proselytizing. It’s at least the fourth time you’ve told me to get spirituality, whatever that is. And, at least a dozen times you’ve made is sound as if those with spirituality are more enlightened or in some way better than those without. So, yeah, you’re a passive aggressive soft sell proselytizer. Admit what you are and get comfortable with it. I’m going to stick with the cast majority of the bright guys in the NAS, at least until someone shows some really good hard evidence to contradict my current standpoint.
#68 – Mister Mustard,
I’m only telling people here that they say what they say they believe
Utter and complete bullshit. Even you don’t believe that. (My turn to tell you what you believe.) For, if it were true that you really believed that horseshit, you wouldn’t have reason to post a damn thing. You’d let people post their own beliefs for themselves.
#66 nope wins. If he or she forming a church, I might just join.
One good thing about being an infidel is that I’m not accused of having beliefs that I don’t have. I’ve escaped the ambiguity of the “atheist” label that is perpetually exploited by some theists and now the Realists when they focus on the definition that best suits their attacks.
I’m not feeling the love here… 😉
#78 – Scottie
>>And, yeah, pushing spirituality in the way
>>you do is indeed proselytizing.
Scottie, Scottie, Scottie. I’m not proselytizing for anything. I’m merely stating my own beliefs. If you choose not to believe them, that’s great. For you.
>>It’s at least the fourth time you’ve told
>>me to get spirituality
What is? Could you post the statement where I told you to get it? And while you’re at it, please post times 1, 2, and 3.
>>And, at least a dozen times you’ve made is
>>sound as if those with spirituality are more
>>enlightened or in some way better than those
>>without.
Hey, if the shoe fits….
>>You’d let people post their own beliefs for
>>themselves.
Oh, I do. I’m only clarifying for the benefit of those who can’t decode some of the hip-and-happening, “I’m so tolerant of others”, slightly dangerous yet groovy bullshit.
The end.
Schroedinger’s Religion
Is there or isn’t there a God?
You don’t find out until you’re in the box.
>> Amen, Mr. Allen. Unfortunately, many of the Angry Young Men here don’t share your point of view. They seem to get their jollies by calling your kind “sheeple”, “morans” and other disrespectful terms because your beliefs are not the same as their beliefs.
I have no beef with most atheists. People can’t really help what they do or don’t believe in.
But there is a new upsurge of aggressive atheist supremacists who give me the creeps.
My own religious community were slaughtered — men, women and children, by the thousands because we were less-enlightened “opiates of the people,” holding back the atheists’ utopian dream.
As you can imagine, atheists arguing that they are more enlightened doesn’t get much traction with me!
Please, don’t get into the subject of reality. I just finished a paper on the topic of skepticism with Descartes and Hume. Meh, brain hurts.
gregallen–your post at #63 is “cute.”
There is an immaterial quality to God, love, and beauty, so if everyone has experienced love and beauty, the argument for God is pretty well made?====Not so fast.
The “existential experience” of God is not singular. You go on from there to explaining God in detail. He created the world. He has created an afterlife….and so forth==none of which is supported by any evidence.
Love–it can be measured in brain scans.
Beauty–mostly symmetry and youth indicating a likelihood of reproduction, it has mathematical properties that can be studied.
So–you can argue Love exists because everyone has experienced it.
You can argue beauty exists because everyone has seen it.
You CANT ARGUE GOD because everyone disagrees with it, its logically incoherent and self-contradictory, and nothing God says about the world has any evidence for it.
Kinda different things in reality–existentially speaking.
Schroedinger’s cat (see link at #37) makes no sense to me. As this is a famous hypothetical, the deficiency is surely my error?
At its heart, there is a word game going on. The cat cannot be both alive and dead at the same time and this state of affairs does not arise just because we don’t know the answer.
It goes back to my original clumsy thought that if the measuring technique fouls the observation, then we need to use a different measuring device.
It the cat example two come immediately to mind==use a glass container and look -or- open a can of cat food and listen for a meow?
My common sense tells me my uncle is alive or dead right now even though I don’t know for sure which until I call him on the phone.
Now–the dual nature of light seems more a mystery. Is it a particle or a wave OR BOTH? Again, language seems to limit the discussion. I can see a sinlge “wave” passing thru two slits, but not a single photon? and thats why it is described as having properties of both?
Now, we constantly make fun of religionists for becoming dogmatic on made-up things rather than simply say “we don’t know.” Seems much the same thing is going on here–what is the exact nature of a photon, or a quantum?===we don’t know. Lay down with cats, and you’ll stand up with fleas.
#81 – Mister Mustard,
Scottie, Scottie, Scottie. I’m not proselytizing for anything. I’m merely stating my own beliefs.
Bullshit again.
That is not stating a belief; it is recommending one. And, no. I’m not going searching for the other times you’ve said similar things. You don’t believe you said this even though it’s here in black and white. Why would you believe other quotes from yourself?
Scottie, Scottie, Scottie (#87)
I wasn’t suggesting you ADOPT a spiritual life. I was merely suggesting that you LOOK INTO it. You know, see what it has to offer, without the calicified antagonism that you bring to any discussion of God, religion, or spirtuality.
It’s clear that with your current closed state of mind, NOTHING that spirituality might have to offer will ever be available to you.
In your world, unless a guy in a white robe appears before your very eyes and starts throwing lightning bolts, or some physicist tells you he’s found God in a particle beam accelerator, you will haughtily disrespect any beliefs other than your own.
Tsk.
#83 – gregallen,
People can’t really help what they do or don’t believe in.
Sure they can.
People can read a book.
If people choose the bible, people can choose whether to read it literally and start killing those who work on whichever day they choose to call the sabbath and killing those who are gay and killing those who wear a mix of linen and wool and killing those who wear clothing designed for the opposite sex and killing those who worship god by the wrong name.
People could read the bible and cherry pick it for the nice bits, ignoring all of the genocide and going to quotes like “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
People could choose to read a book on physics and gain some real understanding of how the universe works, the big bang, relativity, quantum mechanics and the like.
People could choose to read a book on biology and learn about their biological history. Your Inner Fish, for example would be a great start.
There are lots of ways for people to explore and think to determine their own views.
Of course, any of these courses would require thinking, something at which most people are actually quite bad.
#88 – Mister Mustard,
Scottie, Scottie, Scottie (#87)
I wasn’t suggesting you ADOPT a spiritual life. I was merely suggesting that you LOOK INTO it.
What a wonderful assumption you’ve made. See, you assume that since I have no spirituality, I have not looked into spirituality. You cannot even imagine that I actually have and have rejected it.
And you call me the one with the closed mind.
It happens I have indeed looked into spirituality. And, I have found it, though likely not by your close minded definition. I have found it looking into the eyes of my relatives. I have found spirituality in the oneness of life on this planet. I have found it in the eyes of a chimp and the eyes of a gorilla and the eyes of a lion and of a leopard seal and a harp seal pup and many many others.
So, you might want to do a little more open minded thinking on your part. Right now, I suspect that the whites of your eyes are looking a tad brown.