Even if it’s just propaganda this time, it’s interesting to read an account of breaking up a ‘terrorist’ network from the other side. We do to them what they do to us in retaliation for us doing to them what… On and on, cycle never ending.
A terrorist doesn’t become one because he’s bored with bowling and looking for excitement. Makes you wonder what things would be like if we had worked with the Middle Eastern nations years ago to equitably get their oil, find a place for Israel, etc.
tehran times : Iran busts CIA terror network
The Intelligence Ministry on Saturday released details of the detection and dismantling of a terrorist network affiliated to the United States.
[…]
The group’s plans were devised in the U.S., according to the announcement, which added that they had planned to carry out a number of acts such as bombing scientific, educational, and religious centers, shooting people, and making public places in various cities insecure.One of the terrorists was killed in the operation, but the rest are in detention, the Intelligence Ministry said, adding that the group’s main objective was to create fear among the people.
The United States Central Intelligence Agency comprehensively supported the terrorist group by arming it, training its members, and sponsoring its inhumane activities in Iran, the Intelligence Ministry stated.
“Makes you wonder what things would be like if we had worked with the Middle Eastern nations years ago to equitably get their oil, find a place for Israel, etc.” ///
I don’t know what would have happened but I’m sure that at the same time we would be shitting ice cream and pissing gasoline?
You know==when you can’t even “imagine” a working outcome and how it would work other than wishing it so, you ain’t dealing with reality.
But when you blindly assume that our viewpoint is the only correct one and then go about acting as if we have a right to interfere in the internal and external activities of sovereign nations we are also not dealing with reality.
We Americans are so presumptuous and just so god damned arrogant in the way we view the world. We think we label Iran a bad guy and therefore they are bad guys and see themselves that way. We may as well ask them all to wear black cowboy hats. We define terrorists a certain way and then go about acting like they don’t have a right to ever claim we are also terrorists for the way we treat them.
We have been running rampant all over the world for decades, and then we are surprised when others tell us to F off.
Did we deserve 9/11? No, but should we have been surprised when it happened? No. There are just too many religious and political nut cases in the world for us to feel surprised at such things. Especially when you consider how many of those nut cases are right here running the good ol’ US of A.
We shouldn’t have to imagine what it would be like to deal with other nations equitably, we should always try our best to do that.
“if we had worked with the Middle Eastern nations years ago to equitably get their oil, find a place for Israel, etc.”
You got to give Uncle Dave credit for consistency – he’s not going to change his stripes.
Neville Chamberlain part deux.
>>Neville Chamberlain part deux.
Oooooh noooo! Are you saying Uncle Dave is “AN APPEASER”??? Madre de Dios!
Respect is a two way street. Only assholes don’t get that.
“Makes you wonder what things would be like if we had worked with the Middle Eastern nations years ago to equitably get their oil, find a place for Israel, etc.”
In a perfect world, yes. But you can’t forget that for the majority of the last 50 years we were a very real cold war with the Soviet Union. And they really did want world domination. Keeping us from buying oil would have gone a long ways towards furthering their goals.
The ugly reality is that we live on a planet with some ruthless neighbors who have no interest in joining hands and singing “Kumbaya” with us. Sometimes we have to choose to be feared than loved.
# 3 – jbenson2
I don’t get it. Are you saying Uncle Dave wants to make peace with Germany or are you just trying to ‘tag’ him with some half-forgotten political mistake, committed in 1938 by a British Prime Minister?
I also don’t understand what Dvorak Uncensored has to do with Germany in 1938.
Help me out here, jbenson2. As it stands right now, as far as I can tell, you don’t seem to be making any sense whatsoever.
Give us a break! Gibberish is just not all that interesting, especially on a quiet Sunday morning.
Come on people, get real. If you taunt and hit the nicest puppy ever he will eventually bite you. What’s happening is we are being bitten. I was asking what would it be like if we and the West in general hadn’t played this way.
What we do now is a different story. I am not for ‘appeasement’. Slap those who attack us. At the same time, stop poking to provoke being attacked. Two vastly different things.
As for Iran, I don’t know what the answer is. We (the West) created this situation and now have to deal with it to survive. But had we done things differently long ago we wouldn’t have gotten into this mess to begin with.
One of my favorite “genres” is the time travel tale where you go back in history and change something. The result is never what is wanted, never what is expected.
Uncle Dave==the problem with your lead-in is it is fatally vague.
Can anyone say what “the most equitable way” was to get oil out of the Middle East?==or maybe what was it that “we” did that was so wrong??
I might say, what we did was let Standard Oil develop its monopoly and destroy our nascent mass transit system which immediately put us on an oil dependent path. But that is almost a tangent.
Should we have bought less oil? Paid more for it? Demanded the House of Saud create a democracy first??? WHAT????
I’ll bet you have no answer and therefore are just taking a general swipe as if the USA acted wrongly is just phony. Maybe we acted in exactly the best way and all other actions would have given us a worse system??? Who knows?
Less arguable is our recent screw ups. No way we should have unilateral invaded Iraq==could have let the weapons inspectors keep on with their activities and acted as a better world citizen by advising the UN we thought they were wrong, but we would support their authority==and encourage action in the African Horn???
There I think the USA acted wrongly, I identified the exact issue, and provided the remedy.
Very different.
>>I identified the exact issue, and
>>provided the remedy.
You’re a god, Bobbo. A god.
#10–Mustard, no. Just a debater ((don’t say it)) who thinks mindless criticism is very weak. The same attitude and insights can be presented in a stronger fashion to more effect with issue identification with solutions.
This blog show any idiot can complain. Why not offer some answers too?==course arguing about the past doesn’t do that either==but all talk is just practice for when we actually have something important to say.
#11. bobbo- “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man”
read it , there will be a test.
#10, Mustard,
You’re a god, Bobbo. A god.
I agree !!! And may your wife continue with the burnt offerings.
#5, green,
Respect is a two way street. Only assholes don’t get that.
Are you calling jbenson an asshole? Well I’ll have you know, … Oopps, never mind. My bad.
#12–McCullough==I haven’t read his two books on the subject but I have seen both of John Perkin’s review of World Bank/US Loan programs on book TV over the last 4-5 years. Fascinating stuff and the only thing that makes me think it can’t be true is simply how evil it is????
Some recent news too on how a few African countries are recognizing the long term trap growing world economic crops are verses returning to being self sufficient in their own food crops.
All very good stuff. “Laws.” I tried to start a discussion while back on why any “new” government should recognize the debt of an “old” government that was a dictatorship with most of the loans siphoned off into Swiss Bank Accounts. Maybe if debts made by dictators did not have to be repaid, countries would not loan money to dictators?? Just a thought.
Gee==still no takers on what “we should have done” 60 years ago re oil or Israel??
One idea that still has appeal to me is that consideration should have been given to “give” Israel all of Southern Germany as a new homeland. Who knows if that would have created a more peaceful Middle East or not, or moved all the violence to the middle of Europe or not, or whatever?
Seriously==I don’t even know what was “unfair” about how oil got developed in the Middle East. Uncle Dave–what are you thinking about there?
The idiot invaded the wrong country!
…remember that come election time.
Come on people, get real. If you taunt and hit the nicest puppy ever he will eventually bite you.
And if you let your child play with the neighbors pit bull, chances are he will turn itno dog food.
So Iran is a nice puppy, and Israel is the aggressor? I guess Jerusalem was never Jewish, and there were never any temples there destroyed by conquerors?
For the Middle East, the equitable place to put Israel is ‘nowhere.’ Yeah, they are less likely to attack if Israel is somewhere else, but they would be just as hostile.
I’d say having Israel there is good for America, as it makes Israel the primary target.
This type of thing has been happening sense WWI..
If you really want to know, the CORP have been doing it to the Middle east sense about the 1850’s and British colonial expansion and OIL discoveries.
THE European and Brits and the USA, have been meddling in the middle east for Sooo Long.
You wonder WHY they are fighting back..
You wonder WHY they claim the USA has its finger/nose/??? @#@#%@# with their nations.
YES, these nations were BACKWARDS and not as developed, and DIDNT know that the WEST wanted their resources..So the WEST, went in and TOOK IT.
#10… “You’re a god, Bobbo. A god.”
#11… “Mustard, no. Just a debater ((don’t say it)) who thinks mindless criticism is very weak.”
Okay then, I’ll say it… masterdebator.
So for all the appeasement talk from Mr. Benson and others both for and against the question is what is appeasement? Also what did Neville Chamberlain do to appease the enemy? This was on Hardball just recently and it got a bit of attention in that he had a heated argument about it with a right wing media man from Los Angeles. Then having answered those two questions, what did Uncle Dave do to appease anyone?
John S
>>Then having answered those two questions,
>>what did Uncle Dave do to appease anyone?
Nothing, of course. Mister Benson2 just wanted to work the name “Neville Chamberlain” into the thread. It’s become somewhat of a buzz-word (along with “appeasement”) for far right wing nuts, plus it makes them look like they know something about history.
Completely irrelevant here, but what the hey.
#22, Jim.
You are bad.
Funny as all get out, but bad.
Well if you’re saying work out where Israel should be, that sounds a little like land for peace in our time.
With one catch, Uncle Dave…the situation with Israel wouldn’t have been a situation except that the Palestinians refused the concept of a state of their own side-by-side with the Jews. And since then Arabs have consistently been aggressive and vocal in not accepting a Jewish state or a two-state solution.
So…scratch that off your list. People have tried for peace. and the Israelis have given up land to see if some peace would come about…Surprise, no peace.
way to go Iran! Show them how it feels to be bullied. Yeah!!
I’m not defending Iran, but I lived long enough in the Arab world to understand how the CIA (or US military) seems like a terrorist organization.
Is it a terrorist act to blow up a whole hotel in an attempt to kill a couple of guys in it?
Isn’t that what the US did to start the war because they thought Uday and Qusay were drinking tea somewhere?
(And it failed — maybe their “informant” was the owner of the rival hotel down the block.)
Is it a terrorist act to set off a car bomb in a crowded urban street to kill one person but then kill scores of innocent bystanders?
If one of those killed was your child, it sure seems like terrorism.
Yet, by most accounts, the CIA does this crap.
http://tinyurl.com/5sxwv8
Iran is not part of the “Arab” world, and Iran does have direct experience of CIA plots (like the 1953 coup d’etat) and furthermore, it is a historical fact that Iran broke a CIA intelligence ring in 1989, as reported by the NY Times — so its not necessarily “propaganda” either.
– Iran is home to the Aryan race. No shit.