Cobb bar protested as racist for Obama T-shirts | ajc.com
Marietta tavern owner Mike Norman says the T-shirts he’s peddling, featuring cartoon chimp Curious George peeling a banana, with “Obama in ’08” scrolled underneath, are “cute.” But to a coalition of critics, the shirts are an insulting exploitation of racial stereotypes from generations past.
“It’s time to put an end to this,” said Rich Pellegrino, a Mableton resident and director of the Cobb-Cherokee Immigrant Alliance. It was among the organizations planning to gather outside Mulligan’s Bar and Grill Tuesday afternoon to protest the “racist and highly offensive” shirts. “There’s no place for these views, not in this day and age,” he said.
Just down the street from Marietta’s famous Big Chicken, Mulligan’s has carved a provocative niche in an increasingly multicultural area, thanks to its owner’s ultra-conservative political views. If you live in Marietta, it’s impossible not to know what’s on Norman’s mind, as he posts his views on signs in front of Mulligan’s.
Among his recent musings: “I wish Hillary had married OJ,” “No habla espanol — and never will” and the standard “I.N.S. Agents eat free.”
I believe it was one of Rush Limbaughs’ minions who started this nonsense, so its a case of monkey see monkey do. As tasteless as this is, we still do support free speech, right?
#90–J==why do you care whether or not Mustard will admit he is a racist whether or not he is?
Seems to me you are looking for quick labels so you don’t have to think about contrary ideas.
#91 Mister Mustard
“Find me an Italian who is insulted by the notion that they talk using their hands, and maybe you’ll have a point.”
It doesn’t matter if they are insulted or not. It is not true and is defined as racism.
Oxford English defines it as a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race.
That is precisely what you have done to several different race classifications.
# 92 bobbo
“why do you care whether or not Mustard will admit he is a racist whether or not he is?”
I don’t care. I am just pointing out his hierocracy.
“Seems to me you are looking for quick labels so you don’t have to think about contrary ideas.”
No he is a racist. He just picks and chooses which race.
Sorry. hypocrisy. I am filling out papers.
Give it a rest, “J”. Your continuing insistence that portraying a particular black man as a monkey is the same thing as pointing out well recognized socio-cultural characteristics of groups of people begins to slide rapidly down the slippery slope of absurdity. You’re crashing, man!
And the “oriental” thing is particularly absurd. Maybe it offends your political sensitivies to recognize that there is a group of people with particular physical characteristics that does NOT IN ANY WAY correspond with how all people from Asia look, but TFB. “Asian” is just a touchy-feely politically-correct euphemism for “oriental”. When somebody says “Asian”, chances are slim that they mean somebody from India or Russia (east of the Ural mountains).
Give it up, dude. “Asian” is every bit as “racist”, if you will, as “oriental” ever was. It’s just that sappy round-eyes with a pathological need to be politically correct feel morally superior using it.
#93 J- I didn’t know Italians were in a race of their own. What race would that be, Mediterranean, European? I am Irish, we tend to drink a lot, I think its true that we Irishman, as a “race” hold our booze better than most other Europeans. Of course, we are not a race other than Caucasian, and the argument seems somewhat silly to me.
#97–McCullough==don’t get technical on J s/he wants to get high off a self-induced high of moral outrage. Otherwise s/he would just read into such statements “many xyz I have known were pushy”–or whatever.
Course, I don’t “care” I’m just pointing out a way to get something potentially useful from something that generally is not.
# 96 Mister Mustard
“Your continuing insistence that portraying a ……..BLA BLA BLA”
I am not saying they are the same but they are both racist.
“pointing out well recognized socio-cultural characteristics of groups”
What would those be? Jews being pushy and having big noses?
As a point many people believe that people of African descent look more simian than people of European decent. So in your resoning why is it not ok to point that out? BECAUSE IT IS RACIST AND UNTRUE!!!!!!!!!
“And the “oriental” thing is particularly absurd”
Really? I think your lack of understanding about the issue is what is absurd.
“NOT IN ANY WAY correspond with how all people from Asia look,”
That is why East Asian or North East Asian is more appropriate.
“When somebody says “Asian”, chances are slim that they mean somebody from India or Russia (east of the Ural mountains). ”
Really? Have any evidence to back that up?
Give it up, dude. “Asian” is every bit as “racist”, if you will, as “oriental” ever was.
So you are aware of the offensive nature of oriental, yet you continue to use it. No, it isn’t and only a dolt like you would think so. It refers to the country of origin not their race.
“It’s just that sappy round-eyes with a pathological need to be politically correct feel morally superior using it.”
Who are you talking about? I don’t have round eyes.
# 97 McCullough
Italians are what is called a racial grouping. Same with Irish.
“I think its true that we Irishman, as a “race” hold our booze better than most other Europeans. ”
Just because you “think” it is true doesn’t make it so. While that is a racist view I would not call you a racist on that belief alone. Turd however is and has demonstrated it many time over. His hypocritical disgust with this shirt issue shows nothing but hypocrisy.
# 98 bobbo
Useful? That’s a laugh coming from you.
“J” – Oh, sod off. You’re boring even the most attentive among us.
# 100 Mister Mustard
Oh BTW asshat India and Russia are part of the Orient so why don’t you call the people of India and Russia Orientals?
Hey, I’m here for you guys…
MM: I see that the shirt is racist. But the shirt is irrelevant to my point. Take it out of the mix. You mention it to manufacture the opportunity to call someone an imbecile.
Now, go back to my #48, that you’ve so conveniently forgotten:
“Mister Mustard: You know, it could be time to change the chimp references for Bush.”
I take it you would also approve of the general Bush nickname “gimp” (rhymes with chimp) even if Obama was a parapalegic?
bobbo: It’s nasty but apparently acceptable to call people names. But context is everything, as acceptably using such words here demonstrates.
A word like “gimp” would have an entirely different impact if you used it at a disability meeting.
The same word morphs into something far more outrageous and hurtful.
In the context of a nation attempting to elect a black president, the word “chimp” to describe any president is transformed similarly.
And you end up with Mister Mustard coyily shrugging his shoulders, as the T-shirt moron does above, wondering what the problem is.
Isn’t all this self-evident?
RBG
Xcuse the spelling.
#100–Mustard==its time for you to pull out the “you’re talking me to death” closer, and the first time you would be right.
#99–J==I’ll bet one doughnut hole you will agree on reflection that there is no such thing as a “racial grouping” of Italians or Irish. I’m sure you mean, or if you don’t, you should learn, you are referring to an “ethnic grouping.” Very Different.
#101–J==your confusion continues in flip/flopping exactly what Mustard clearly said.
I’m left wondering if you don’t read carefully, carry your own dictionary, or have some sort of attention disorder deficit or dyslexia? Please step it up a notch.
#102–RGB==yes, I saw that—-but, speaking of sensitivities, what is this very tepid thought of yours worth in the real world?
Is it that no one should call anyone a bad name?
or, more subtly (so I didn’t ascribe this to you) but still inane, is it that we should not call anyone a bad name that when applied to our favorite candidate would be seen as racist or otherwise “really” not acceptable?
Well, if either of the above is your point, its not worth discussing. Too simple minded.
You make reference to “context” and then throw it away when falling back on kindergarden school rules (no name calling) when the discussion regarding Bush as chimp regarding his intellect or management abilities as being arguable, whereas calling/refering to Obama as a chimp as racial baiting is somehow on a par?
It is not. To continue arguing so makes you somewhat of a chimp as well, and I’ll let the context define the term for you.
“your confusion continues in flip/flopping exactly what Mustard clearly said.”
Give me an example!
“I’ll bet one doughnut hole you will agree on reflection that there is no such thing as a “racial grouping” of Italians or Irish.”
Uh no I do not agree. There is a thing called racial grouping. Do I agree with its premise? Not so much.
“I’m sure you mean, or if you don’t, you should learn, you are referring to an “ethnic grouping.” Very Different.”
No I am not and they are not that different. Ethnicity and race are related. Both are usually defined in terms of common genealogy. Ethnicity in addition points to shared cultural traits. I was referring to the former because I was talking about genealogy not culture. Which makes me laugh at your next statement.
“I’m left wondering if you don’t read carefully, carry your own dictionary, or have some sort of attention disorder deficit or dyslexia?”
I was wondering the same about some of you. Mostly You Turd and Pedro. Pedro has an excuse you and Turd do not.
>>Oh BTW asshat India and Russia are part of the
>>Orient so why don’t you call the people of
>>India and Russia Orientals?
Because, brainiac, the “orient” is a poorly defined non-entity (usually thought to encompass China, Japan, and Korea, but not India or Russia), and in the lexicon of American English, it’s used to refer to “people with slanty eyes” (gasp! I know! A shocking reference to objectively observable physical characteristics! The horror!).
On the other hand, Asia is a well-defined geographical entity, where many of the native inhabitants do NOT fit the characteristics implied by “oriental”.
You’re talking me to death, “J”. And unlike Bobbo, you’re almost NEVER right!
105. I’ve already stated that our society accepts name-calling. Where to draw the line that then requires a critical backlash, as we are rightly doing to the subject above, is what’s under discussion.
In the context of Bush alone, “chimp” is acceptable. In the context of Bush + Obama, chimp is not. I haven’t disregarded my point about context in the least, nor even attempted the irrelevant task of ranking name-calling Obama vs. Bush on some kind of an “offensive rating” scale.
RBG
# 107 Mister Mustard
“Because, brainiac, the “orient” is a poorly defined non-entity (usually thought to encompass China, Japan, and Korea”
Stop getting you info form Wikipedia you tool. It encompassed China Japan and Korea but was not limited to them. Learn how to read. It covered a very large part of the world starting with the Middl East.
“but not India or Russia),”
It absolutely included India and Russia. The orient express went through part of what was once Russia and Guess what?????? It was nowhere near China Japan or Korea. It stopped at Turkey
So again why not call all of them Orientals?
“and in the lexicon of American English, it’s used to refer to “people with slanty eyes” (gasp! I know! A shocking reference to objectively observable physical characteristics! The horror!).”
And it was racist and incorrect. Not all Orientals had slanty eyes and not all people with slanty eyes are Orientals.
“You’re talking me to death, “J”. And unlike Bobbo, you’re almost NEVER right!”
Despute anything I have stated with some facts or evidence.
#108–RBG==I’m ready to go to bed, but your point is interesting==IF you can make it.
Why is chimp in the context of Bush + Obama not acceptable? If you mean it allows people to attempt “sly racism” then you seek the lowest common denominator of political correctness to sap the political discussion of any snap at all. Bush being a chimp is about the nicest thing one could validly think of him.
I’m trying to think of bad words/images to apply to Obama. Any standard liberal one would do==some cartoon of an empty suit stealing dollars from international corporate heads to feed the needy comes to mind. Any help?
I think it’s interesting that the article being linked to has been updated as of today, May 14 to no longer include the majority of the cited text here. Is that standard journalism practice?
Of obvious note is the omission of the other “musings” posted on signs outside the bar. Without that context the bar owner just looks like a jerk who found a way to get publicity for his bar. “”This is my marketing tool,” he said.”
On it’s own, the Curious George cartoon is only offensive if we let it be. I understand the connection to racist remarks from the past, but there’s a big difference between Curious George and some caricature cartoon from the 40s and 50s. However, when the story is read in full (including those portions now missing from the linked article) it’s obvious the bar owner has some deep seated racist tendencies.
>>Not all Orientals had slanty eyes and not
>>all people with slanty eyes are Orientals.
Of course they did, and of course they are. In commonly accepted American English, that’s what “oriental” means. Where the fuck are you from, anyway? Outer space?
>>Guess what??????
Big woop. It was called the Orient Express because it went eastward from western Europe. “Orient” means “east”. Is that too complicated fer ya?
# 112 Turd
“Of course they did, and of course they are.”
No. The Orient was from the Middle East all the way to the west side of Asia. Not all of those people have “slanty eyes”. I would have thought by now you would have done some homework about this issue.
No. Eskimos have “slanty eyes” too and they are not referred to as Oriental’s despite their genealogy.
“It was called the Orient Express because it went eastward from western Europe.”
No moron. It has the name because it’s final destination was, to people of the time, the start of the Orient. At first it was just the area we now call the Middle East. Ever wonder why we call it that now? Later the Orient expanded to include more of Russia, India, China, and pretty much all of the east and South east Asian countries.
By your logic any train heading east from west Europe could be an Orient express. Dumbass!
Instead of trying to hopelessly defend your racist remarks why not learn a little history and understand what you are talking about. It is clear to me and I am sure many others that you completely lack knowledge of this topic.
““Orient” means “east”. Is that too complicated fer ya?”
Really? Wow I guess you did look some stuff up. Too bad you don’t understand what you read. Of course it means east who said otherwise?
Oh BTW thanks for proving my point with this remark
“and in the lexicon of American English, it’s used to refer to “people with slanty eyes””
That shows that the comment is commonly used in a racist fashion.
This is on HuffPo today. Seems a good percentage of white racists won’t vote for Hillary. Kinda Funny:
http://tinyurl.com/5fwjo9
>>That shows that the comment is commonly used
>>in a racist fashion.
Why’s that, “J”? Because to point out the obvious is a racist, bigoted action, like saying “that guy has red hair” or “that lady has long legs”?
Sheesh. Give it up. You’ve made your point. I realize that the terminally politically correct (those who call every black person “African American” whether or not they’re American) consider use of the term “oriental” to be a faux pas. TFB.
>>Eskimos have “slanty eyes” too
Haw haw haw! Who’s being racist now, m’hijito? ESKIMOS? Did you mean Aleuts? Inuits? Check out the “Racial Slur Database”, and you’ll find that term of abject, repugnant racism.
Now STFU. You’re talking me to death.
# 115 Turd
“Because to point out the obvious is a racist, bigoted action, like saying “that guy has red hair” or “that lady has long legs”?”
Oh you mean like people of African decent that in their intermaxillary suture region have a protrusion and large lip structure so it is ok to say they are chimps or monkeys? Is that “OK” too? You and I both know that saying someone has red hair or long legs is not the same as saying they have “slanty eyes”. So quite with the bullshit.
“Check out the “Racial Slur Database”, and you’ll find that term of abject, repugnant racism
Yes I am aware and I used it with purpose. A purpose which was apparently lost on you.
BTW nice way to dodge the fact that you are wrong about the orient.
Judging by the number of posts on this topic, and the general outrage, I think it’s fair to state that this word and image can be shocking and unacceptable as a put down (to say the least), specifically around black people. That’s enough.
RBG
>>Oh you mean like people of African decent that
>>in their intermaxillary suture region have a
>>protrusion and large lip structure so it is ok
>>to say they are chimps or monkeys?
You’re starting to babble, “J”. Chimps and monkeys don’t have big lips. Wtf are you gibbering about, you little monkey?
>>Yes I am aware and I used it with
>>purpose. A purpose which was
>>apparently lost on you.
Sure as shit was. If it was intended as some sort of sly irony, you missed that one by a mile. More likely, I think that you didn’t know that using the term “Eskimo” was politically incorrect. HAW HAW HAW! Better print out the Dictionary of Racial Slurs, and get with the program, dude.
Interesting. Because of his race, one candidate is off limits for crass jokes and stereotypes. Only when the people are privately in their ballot marking areas will the truth about that damned America be heard. Or will the Kennedy liberals have a law passed giving government controllers the right to watch over your shoulder to assure you vote correctly.
Grow up assholes. The folks who hate the US aren’t quite as sensitive over the issue and will cut him no slack when he is president.
qsabe,
Obama is not off limits for crass jokes and stereotypes. But don’t piss on our legs and tell us its raining. If you call someone names based upon what they do, you are making a fair comparison. If you call someone names based upon who they are you are hitting below the belt.
You are certainly free to say anything you like but please don’t try and bullshit anybody about what racist codewords “really” mean.
That is a complete non-sequitur. Calling Bush a chimp has nothing to do with Obama. Calling Obama a chimp has nothing to do with Bush.