POLICE COMMISSIONER Charles H. Ramsey yesterday asked Philadelphians not “to rush to judgment” when watching a video showing baton-wielding cops repeatedly striking, kicking and stomping three young men whom they had stopped after a triple shooting in Hunting Park.
“On the surface, it certainly does not look good in terms of the amount of force that was used,” Ramsey said during a news conference with Mayor Nutter at police headquarters.
Ramsey said that an Internal Affairs investigation is under way. He expressed concern for the mental well-being of the entire force, which is still reeling in the wake of Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski’s slaying last weekend…
“The video is the video,” Mayor Nutter said. “We have no audio. You don’t know what was going on at that moment when the officers approached the vehicle. There will be an investigation and we will move on.”
Does wearing a badge permit you to be a vigilante?
#56 – Don’t believe your eyes, you doesn’t have enough background info to know or the right to question police tactics.
Actually, I do. Now shut the fuck up.
#60 – Oh and… dude… I know your comment is intentionally satirical and I just want to be sure you know that my “shut the fuck up” is equally so… 🙂
You have no idea if any of those suspects were following exactly all instructions, in every detail, as issued by the cops. The cops had good reason to believe these guys were fleeing from involvement in a killing meaning they could easily kill again. And in the most creative and unexpected ways.
So why should a cop take even a slight chance when life is on the line and families are waiting at home? We know what happens to cops when the odds finally catch up to them. In this case, the suspect could just as easily be saying he has a gun but is not going to give it up.
Now if you reject this out of hand as completely ludicrous then it is equally ludicrous that these suspects are soft, benign, innocent by-standers needing kid-glove treatment. This is war & people die brutal deaths every day in it. Thankfully we have some people willing to risk their lives here. Because that sure ain’t you.
So if you want to go the civilized, rights-respecting route, then let’s agree that everyone you see in that video is innocent for the time being. You can’t have it both ways whenever it suits you.
RBG
#62, RBG,
So why should a cop take even a slight chance when life is on the line and families are waiting at home?
So I suppose the victims families don’t matter? Fucktard, Police are there to protect ALL of us. Not just those you asshats decide should be protected. But then I guess you think 51 shots isn’t excessive either.
So if you want to go the civilized, rights-respecting route, then let’s agree that everyone you see in that video is innocent for the time being. You can’t have it both ways whenever it suits you.
That is true. The individual police officers are indeed innocent until proven guilty.
On the other hand, all those white guys that got out of the cars with the flashing lights, beating the crap out of the niggars, just ain’t as innocent as the niggars getting the shit beat out of them! As a group, they exhibit the worse of the Philly Police Department. The Commish only made the whole thing worse by suggesting we don’t jump to a judgment.
But as individuals, they are innocent until they are proven guilty. And I think most NORMAL people would think the cops guilty.
#62 – We know what happens to cops when the odds finally catch up to them.
Yes… They retire you drama queen.
Most cops go a whole career without ever pulling a gun in the line of duty.
Some of you guys watch way too many damn cop shows.
Some of you guys watch way too many damn cop shows.
OFTLO.. or the WRONG cop shows. I grew up with Dragnet.. not COPS!
J/P=?
# 12 Use your fucking brains before crucifying these men.
OK. My brain says that after the suspects are on the ground and in custody the cops should stop kicking them. It doesn’t matter what happened before or after. The police are supposed to uphold the law and serve the people. They are supposed to catch the suspects and deliver them to the justice system, not beat them up.
>>The cops had good reason to believe these
>>guys were fleeing from involvement in a
>>killing meaning they could easily kill again.
Yeah, you always read about that in the newspaper. Perps with their hands cuffed behind them, being dragged across the ssphalt getting kicked in the balls, and HOLY SHIT! THEY KILL AGAIN! And they KILL EASILY!
If those cops don’t do hard time, I bet there will be riots in Philly just like the post-Rodney King riots in LA.
Get rid of stupid cities and you won’t have crap like this. Screw ’em all. They’ll all die from global warming anyway.
64. Mr. G. And I think most NORMAL people would think the cops guilty.
And I think most NORMAL people would think the guys who just participated in a murder should be treated like the most lethal form of assassin.
64 OFTLO Most cops go a whole career without ever pulling a gun in the line of duty.
That’s because it’s better to punch out someone than shoot them.
Here’s a site commemorating over 7,000 cops killed in the line of duty. Seems like such a violation of their basic civil rights… Wonder how that compares to TV?
http://www.aphf.org/lods.html
RBG
#56, that was not a civil suit. It was a criminal case brought in federal court, with two of the four convicted.
It looks to me like Philadelphia is losing the war for law and order. Somebody here in the forums said that this is only going to get worse. It absolutely is.
Is it possible that cops are being targeted for the purpose of getting them, or their ilk, removed from the force? I know, it sounds far-fetched, but I wouldn’t put it past gangs/gang members to at least think of doing this sort of thing.
I never like to see cops beating anyone up since there job is to enforce the law, not commit unnecessary acts of violence.
There is a problem here.
I do believe that people that attack cops are “a worse element” than those who don’t. ie–if you will attack a cop, who won’t you attack? Makes you a dangerous person needing “help.”
Same with the cops==they they DON’T beat up obviously guilty people in the heat of the moment, then lesser suspects and even totally innocent citizens can rationally place their trust in the police. Otherwise, the police are fairly seen as dangerous people needing “help.”
So==yes, police should be held to a higher standard than a gang member because they have been hired to do so and it protects all our liberties.
Beat yer perp on first contact. It’s OK if you don’t know why – he does.
If these men are truly guilty of the crime they were pulled over for, then I dont feel bad about the beating. Although, pennsylvania does have the death penalty. what the hell happens now though.
#75 pringles, put down and step away from those chips!
1.) given our proven false conviction rate
2.) police with little to no public accountability
3.) the low and ever lowing bar of active effort the average American sheepeople puts in discerning truth (too busy watching COPS, TV commercials, cheating on their college exams or lying on their mortgage application)
4.) over zealous prosecuters
5.) judges who play judges on TV and …
How in the hell are you going to know (true knowledge) if they are really guilty, or do you even care? Is the effort just not worth it for you?
And WHAT AMERICAN values do cops inflicting unnecessary almost lethal force represent??
you hit me. I’ll hit hard
#70, RBG,
And I think most NORMAL people would think the guys who just participated in a murder should be treated like the most lethal form of assassin.
Sure. How do you know these victims were involved in a murder? In fact, they weren’t. Someone they were with shot three people, ALL OF WHOM LIVED. They had nothing to do with the police officer being shot.
How do you know that your “murderers” actually killed anyone? In this or any other case. You jump to conclusions without having all the information and you will probably make a mistake. Would the police tell the family “Oopps, my bad, sorry” and just go on with life? Obviously not. That is why we have the courts and legal system.
Vengeance is a poor excuse for justice. Not too many years ago this was practiced quite frequently. Only then it was called “lynching”.
Looks like an old fashened bro beating to me.
#33
Unless your black and have no $.
These jackasses (the criminals) are guilty of attempted murder of three other people. That’s the reason they were pursued. As far as I’m concerned, once a criminal crosses that threshold they no longer have rights. I think the video does nothing but rile up all the uneducated “we are oppressed” folks in the country.
Would you kindly ask a murder to be still while you cuff them? Or would you make *sure* they didn’t move while they were cuffed?
Anyone ever meet a police officer outside of a traffic stop? They deserve the public’s respect as much as our men and women of the military.
#65:
“Most cops go a whole career without ever pulling a gun in the line of duty.”
Actually most cops draw their gun quite frequently. It’s that they hardly fire their weapon.
#81–Michael==did you read the linked article? The three who got beat up are totally innocent of any wrong doing. ==only guilty of “driving while black.”
Why don’t you read that article and get back to us on where rational support should be?
I love the excuse machine on display. Cops are tired and frustrated so the innocent citizens of Philly should be concerned for the cops emotions when they beat the crap out of people.
High standards indeed. If those goons on tape where in the Military, they should be courts martialed for the good of the service and the honor of the USA? Won’t happen to cops though–poor stressed out bunnies that they are.
>>Would you kindly ask a murder to be still
>>while you cuff them?
Would YOU take a possibly innocent person (actually innocent, in this case), put them in handcuffs, and THEN kick the holy fuck out of them, as these “peace officers” did?
Takes a really special kind of person to kick someone in the balls (over and over and over again) with their hands cuffed behind them. Then beat them with a nightstick. And then drag them across the asphalt, face down, with their hands up behind them. Yeah. They deserve the public’s respect. Riiiiiight. Bet you thought Hitler was a Real Fine Fellow too. (OK, not necessary to point out that I obeyed Godwin’s law here).
#65, Michael isn’t that the problem Has “Anyone ever meet a police officer outside of a traffic stop?”
Where are they when real crime is being committed?
How long does it take for them to respond to real crime vs. how many money making tickets they give out?
Your right about one thing, people only know what they have experienced. Too many people have experienced people not interested in attacking real crime.
#81, Michael,
As far as I’m concerned, once a criminal crosses that threshold they no longer have rights.
So whatever happened to “Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?”
Why do you hate America Michael? Would it be because they closed your John Birch Society Chapter? Is it because they won’t allow you to wear your white robes through town without those uppity niggars kicking the living shit out of you? Is it because your mommy wants you to move out of the basement and get a real job that doesn’t involve web design or selling cheats for GTA II?
#82, Michael,
Actually most cops draw their gun quite frequently. It’s that they hardly fire their weapon.
Sorry. You must be watching too much COPS. The majority of police will never draw their weapon in the line of duty.
Snip from article:
“Police watched as four men got out of a gold Mercury Grand Marquis and walked to the corner. One of them then fired upon three other men standing on the corner. The man who fired took off running and his three companions got back in the Grand Marquis and drove off, with police in pursuit, Ramsey said.”
Though the shooter ran off, the other three occupants of the car were involved in the shooting. That’s why they were pursued. That’s why they were stopped. That’s why they were forcefully taken down.
#86 “Sorry. You must be watching too much COPS. The majority of police will never draw their weapon in the line of duty.”
What is your reference for this? I know many a police officer in many different departments, in many different cities. While the act of drawing a weapon does not imply aiming it at a person or pulling the trigger, it happens more than you realize. Near every felony traffic stop has the office drawing his weapon. Searching a building for a suspect has the officer drawing his weapon. The odds an officer will have to fire his weapon are extremely low but don’t assume it stays in the holster.
#85 “Where are they when real crime is being committed?
How long does it take for them to respond to real crime vs. how many money making tickets they give out?”
Speeding is a crime FYI – want to know how many people die in traffic related accidents? Look it up. Despite what you may think, traffic cops don’t usually have quotas – they are assigned traffic duty. That’s what they do on their shift. Just because you get upset when you’re fined for going 30mph over the limit doesn’t negate what their doing.
78 Mr. Gawd.
“Police watched as four men got out of a gold Mercury Grand Marquis and walked to the corner. One of them then fired upon three other men standing on the corner. The man who fired took off running and his three companions got back in the Grand Marquis and drove off, with police in pursuit”
That’s how I know they were involved. In an attempt to willfully end the life of another human being. Boring stuff for you, perhaps.
Since these gentlemen were too busy fleeing to follow instructions or otherwise politely reveal the true extent of their threat to the cops, the police have a higher duty to protect themselves – even if the risk to them could be quantified at barely a percentage point.
Understand that the risk of injury & death to the cops is somewhat additive. If the risk is low, say 1%, over the course of 100 take-downs, it approaches 100%. It’s like rolling a die with 100 sides to it. The idea is to make the probability of injury to the cops an astronomically low number. Else, you go face someone having just shown murderous intent.
RBG
#69 – Get rid of stupid cities and you won’t have crap like this. Screw ‘em all. They’ll all die from global warming anyway.
If you don’t like living in the enclave of culture, then keep stick to your backwoods mountain shack. We won’t mind.
But per capita, crime is no worse in the city than it is in rural America.
#70 – And I think most NORMAL people would think the guys who just participated in a murder should be treated like the most lethal form of assassin.
I would hope that NORMAL people would want to know if those guys participated in a murder, especially when it seems likely that they did not… but in a culture of vengeance that might be too much to ask for.
Here’s a site commemorating over 7,000 cops killed in the line of duty.
7000? Out of how many total cops over what length of time? Is that all cops killed in the line? I shouldn’t have to remind you, I am from a police family. I don’t need to be reminded that on occasion, cops die. We don’t dishonor the dead by becoming brutal thugs.
If these guys are criminals who were shooting weapons, then I believe that these officers are doing a good job and a service for their community. Violent crime can only be solved by even more violent police that is upholding the law. I am with the POLICE!
God bless them.