1.- The video might take a while to load
2.- It can be quite upsetting to watch.
Amnesty unveils shock waterboarding film – The Independent: An American expert in torture techniques has denounced his government for allowing “waterboarding” to be practised against terror suspects, just as a graphic advertisement showing the brutal reality of the technique is unveiled to British cinema-goers.
Malcolm Nance, who trained hundreds of US servicemen and women to resist interrogation by putting them through “waterboarding” exercises, demanded an immediate end to the practice by all US personnel.
He said: “They seem to think it is worth throwing the honour of 220 years of American decency in war out of the window. Waterboarding is out-and-out torture, and I’m deeply ashamed President Bush has authorised its use and dragged the US’s reputation into the mud.”
>>And did you transpose a key
>>word–torture for murder
I think that may have been “sarcasm”, Bob. At least I hope so.
#31–Mustard==I’m coming to the conclusion that dripping obvious sarcasm like: “Bush is conferring with Congress…..” is inappropriate for blogging. It can only be seen by those on the same acid trip. It should be a matter of etiquette not to use it without identifying it as such. Maybe a good use for double equations???====what do you think?
#12, I’m just keeping it clean for the kids, Mister Pottymouth.
>>I’m just keeping it clean for the
>>kids, Mister Pottymouth.
That’s just silly. Using the unknown term “finger bang” is just going to get the kids asking “mommy, what does finger bang mean”, leading to awkward discussions.
If you just say “finger fuck”, any kid who knows how to read will know what that means, and just move on.
Let’s see.
To save any life I must result to barbaric and inhumane treatment of people?
The answer is so clear to one with morals.
The End Does Not Justify The Means.
Torture people to safeguard others? No a thousand times no. I would rather have the whole of the US die than torture someone for continued existence.
The existence after you have sullied yourself in barbarity is death anyway.
Cursor_
>>Never heard of finger banging?
Nope. And although I’ve watched Full Metal Jacket, that little pearl slipped through my fingers. Of course, FMJ was set in the sixties, and maybe Gunnies were not allowed to say “fuck” to the recruits.
In any case, it’s a darned obscure term.
#3 – torture is no respecter of guilt or innocence. I find your implication reprehensible. Even assuming your numbers are correct and the judgement of those who say those three are guilty of some horrible crime is correct, it is wrong and evil to administer it anyway. May the “blood” of those tortured and never disappear from the hands of those that ordered, approved and administered it.
“Do unto others as you would have done to you.”
“As you do to the least of these, so you do to me.”
I can only conclude that those who did this are not of any real religion and likely have very serious moral lapses that are considered deadly sins by Catholics. In other words, they are immoral. Furthermore, all from the top down (yes, that’s you Shrub) should be held libel in a court of law. This is a violation of the Geneva Convention and therefore should be punishable at the World Court. Personally, I’d go for at least a 30 year sentence to life and removal of all personal assets, including stocks, real estate, bonds, etc. so that when they get out they are penniless. Not that any accountability will ever happen for any but the lowest on the totem pole of command, if even them.
Just one of the many crimes of the Shrub administration that was never legitimately elected in the first place.
#37 – “This is a violation of the Geneva Convention and therefore should be punishable at the World Court”
Umm, wrong. Under int law theses types can be summarily executed. POWs are covered under the “Geneva Convention”. ANY person with with an ounce of intelligence knows that.
sorry to double post
It is never right to torture, even if it means the loss of life. Those of dubious morals can argue otherwise but it’s wrong. Period. Sorry bud to all those who say otherwise. The neo-cons and ultra-conservative false religious have one thing right: there are some moral absolutes. This is one of them. Yep, I wouldn’t even torture someone if it meant my family would be killed. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t do everything else but torture simply is not an option. Neither is vengeance. There are other ways to make sure 9/11 type attacks are less rare but in a truly free society, they can never be stopped all the time. Unfortunately, our non-elected government has only taken steps to make attacks more, not less likely. They don’t have the moral courage, nor the desire for them not to. It’s simply too profitable for them to do what they are doing now.
They are pows. The govt. just won’t admit it. I guess this means I have more than an ounce then. out.
#40 “They are pows. The govt. just won’t admit it.”
‘fraid not son. They aren’t part of any nations military. They’re just firing squad fodder.
#36–Mustard–missed that episode of South Park==”Something You Can Do with Your Finger”
You know==most moralists evade the harsh reality of being moral. Its called proportionality.
All the USA should die instead of torturing 3 people? High morals indeed.
I’d be worried if most moralists weren’t hypocrites.
On February 6, 2008, the CIA director General Michael Hayden admitted that they had used waterboarding on three prisoners during 2002 and 2003, namely Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Abu Zubayda and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.
I love how, in the end, at least here, it’s all about the evil, unelected, scheming but seemingly stupid G.W.B. If only my reality were so black and white…
Waterboarding is a complicated and irrational response to a complicated and irrational world. If you believe in a falable yet justified U.S., you think it was a limited use method of interrogation. If you believe in an evil and imperialist U.S., you think it’s a common occurance, regardless of what a liberal ABC News Blogger has researched and found.
Regardless of the past, all three candidates are against waterboarding, so it’s a dead issue.
I’m feeling rather thirsty now.
Mister mustard, SouthPark had a episode where the boys formed a boy band, They named it “Finger Bang”, So the term seems mainstream enough to me.
We are supposed to be the good guys. We expect them to be barbaric, we are supposed to be better than they are because we are not barbarians.
If we simply say “they do it, so we do it” means that we are no different than they are. If that is the case, why are we there? If we are really there to “liberate” Iraq, why are we torturing people (beyond the three obvious cases) who were not even part of Saddam’s power structure when he ruled the country? They are POWs, and fall under the Geneva convention. If they are spies to be shot, then have them be shot. That status does not give us the right to torture them.
George Bush said we went there to close the torture rooms in Saddam’s prisons. Why did we reopen them?
These events have provided a greater recruiting tool for the terrorists than anything we could have ever provided. Many fence-sitting Arabs now come down on the side of our enemy because of our behavior.
I am a veteran, and I am ashamed of what was done. We are supposed to be the good guys, and the Constitution is supposed to apply to everyone, especially those that do not respect it, to demonstrate to them that it is a valid document that binds us all.
I am surprised that there is any debate on this topic, actually. If good people decide that any action is justified in fighting evil, then their good is no different from the evil they wish to destroy.
#46 – “They are POWs, and fall under the Geneva convention.”
As a vet you should know the definition. Since you don’t, I suspect you aren’t a vet of anything other than a poor education.
However, I’ll refresh your memory from your “military” training. http://tinyurl.com/588z9w
In order to be the good guy one needs to be the good guy… all the time. Yes, people will take advantage of that… but this kind of alternative will bite back in the end.
I hate to be the one to break the news but everyone appears ok with the “civility” of bullets and bombs randomly sending metal pieces through bodies causing damage that can hardly even be expressed.
Compare that to a minute of waterboarding in war time. This, plus Tasers, Riot Gas and much more are already administered on various recruits and volunteers in training. Where’s the outrage there?
Let’s just try to convince all sides to conduct war as a tiddly-winks contest.
RBG
It can be quite upsetting to watch
Why? It’s not like it’s torture… that’s what the current regime in Washington says.
>>missed that episode of South Park.
Bobster (and Livvidd), I miss ALL the episodes of South Park, including that one.
http://tinyurl.com/5adzzg
I don’t watch it, because I can’t understand what any of those fucking kids are saying, and they’re too cheap to pay for CC captioning. So I missed out on that whole aspect of modern society. Dang.
However, I did ask my kids (in their 20’s and early 30’s) if they knew what “finger banging” meant, and they looked at me like I had two heads. The were able to infer what it meant, but no one had ever heard anyone actually SAY it (and they occasionally watch South Park, but I guess they missed that episode too).
Fingerbang? Sounds like something a big fan of What What in the Butt ( http://tinyurl.com/3awl6w ) might say!
#51 – Mister Mustard – However, I did ask my kids (in their 20’s and early 30’s) if they knew what “finger banging” meant, and they looked at me like I had two heads.
Here’s a dictionary.
>>Here’s a dictionary.
Shitty link, Cough Syrup Man. The word didn’t appear on the linked page. I did look it up though. And it’s just what I thought. White suburban pubers trying to talk ghetto. Yo dawg! Word up!!
Sorry, I don’t move in those circles.
If he had just said that Barney was finger fucking someone, we wouldn’t have had to slide through the fetid slime of White Boys Trying To Be Ghetto.
#53 – Mister Mustard
So, the description for finger banging didn’t match what you thought it was? Well, continue to ask your bright kids… they’re more accurate.
#54, is this REALLY the important issue? Seriously?
#55–Jennifer==if 2/3 mighty fine posters find this issue important, why isn’t that good enough for you?
Further, why post so ambiguously? Why not affirmatively state whats wrong with their discussion, or more concretely, comment on an issue you find relevant?
aka==don’t be a killjoy.
#46 Smartalix
Right on Brother !!
#55 Jennifer
Right on Sister !!
That’s what I love about this blog … what starts out as a serious, global and emotionally charged issue sparks a mini thread about digital erotica (not net-porn ya bit heads!).
Peace out,
/T.
Just show the prisoners the videos of waterboarding and everyone can be happy!
Mister Mustard procreated, now that’s torture!! And scary!!
I can’t believe there’s actually debate about this on this board. To those who denounce waterboarding because it is torture, keep up the good work.
For the few that feel it’s OK, here are some interesting facts:
1) It is illegal in the U.S. and has been since 1947.
2) It violates the Geneva Convention.
3) It violates the United Nations Convention Against Torture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#Legality
So, Bush is a war criminal. It’s plain. It’s simple. And, we the idiots and our all republican representatives (even the Democraps are Repugnicans, just a tad less so) will do nothing about it.
>>I can’t believe there’s actually debate
>>about this on this board.
Scottie, nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the Right-Wing cabal on dvorak dot org slash blog. And, Right-Wing cabal, you know who you are.
Xenophobia is a virulent disease, and its sufferers will stoop as low as is necessary. Even if it means torturing other human beings.
G-d bless Amerika.