1.- The video might take a while to load
2.- It can be quite upsetting to watch.
Amnesty unveils shock waterboarding film – The Independent: An American expert in torture techniques has denounced his government for allowing “waterboarding” to be practised against terror suspects, just as a graphic advertisement showing the brutal reality of the technique is unveiled to British cinema-goers.
Malcolm Nance, who trained hundreds of US servicemen and women to resist interrogation by putting them through “waterboarding” exercises, demanded an immediate end to the practice by all US personnel.
He said: “They seem to think it is worth throwing the honour of 220 years of American decency in war out of the window. Waterboarding is out-and-out torture, and I’m deeply ashamed President Bush has authorised its use and dragged the US’s reputation into the mud.”
That’s Dumbya’s legacy, alright. A chickenhawk strongly promoting the use of torture techniques.
Maybe if he’d been subjected to these techniques, instead of flying potted geraniums around Dixie during the Vietnam war, he’d be a little less eager to inflict them on others.
Or is he that smart?
Hmm, it’s meant to make the person it’s being done to feel like he’s drowning. How “shocking” can a video of it really be?
Number of people waterboarded by US – 3
Number of innocent people waterboarded by US – 0
Moral outrage by peacenik groups and “holier than thous” – Priceless
#3, even though I may be indifferent about this whole debate, I find your numbers suspect.
When Bush and Cheney go to meet their Maker, Saint Peter will just hand them over to Satan who will put them on the Ducking Stool for ALL ETERNITY !!! So much for the “Christian Right” !!!
>>Hmm, it’s meant to make the person it’s
>>being done to feel like he’s drowning. How
>>“shocking” can a video of it really be?
Well, attaching electrodes to somebody’s balls and hitting them with 50,000 volts is meant to feel exactly like attaching electrodes to somebody’s balls and hitting them with 50,000 volts, so how shocking could that be?
Is your criterion for acceptability that the torture feels like what it’s designed to feel like?
Are you Alberto Gonzalez?
I take it that politely asking captured terrorists to cooperate and voluntarily provide us with all of their potentially deadly secret information doesn’t work?
I for one am shocked that our 232 years of humanitarian freedoms and democratic justice ideals just doesn’t seem to impress or, motivate these mis-understood freedom fighters for Allah to play ball with us.
For the record, I’d NEVER waterboard anybody. I would, however, very respectfully and forthrightly tell the terrorist that he has two choices, 1. To tell me everything that he knows or, 2. He will be dispatched off to start phucking his 72 virgin sheep for eternity within the next 60 seconds of his refusal.
Hey, its a democratically fair deal…he gets to chose life or, death. The smart choice is always life but, terrorists may not see it that way, too bad.
So for years it was OK for this guy to waterboard US Military people (I was one of them at SERE school) for training. But when it came time to do it ‘for real’ he grew a conscious. Puhlease.
The question is- if you could waterboard Mohamed Atta to stop 9/11 would you? Or how about 2 9/11’s? Me, I have no problem answering that one.
Sleep tight.
#6, Who said anything about acceptability, scarecrow? In my mind, if I go out to watch a video of somebody being water boarded, I’m not going to be shocked when that’s exactly what I see.
#9 if you consider viewing a torture video that was billed as a torture video to be “not shocking” because you expected it to be a torture video, you’re a pretty callous fellow, even for a lawyer.
How about if you watched a snuff film? Somebody having their fingers severed one by one? A beheading? Is there anything that you WOULD consider shocking, pumpkin?
#10, turning on PBS to watch an episode of Barney and seeing him finger bang a 10 year old would be pretty shocking IMO.
#11 “finger bang”? “FINGER BANG”!?!??! Now THAT is shocking.
Never in all my born days have I heard anyone use the term “finger bang”. Is that sea-legalese for “finger fuck”??
Jeez.
Kill all the lawyers. “finger bang” indeed.
I thought that ‘finger bang’ was pointing your finger and moving it like you are pulling an imaginary gun trigger, saying ‘Bang’ each time you pulled. 😉
Such innocence.
Finger fucking is much clearer.
#4, http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
Personally, I don’t believe in torture. I don’t think, long term, it accomplishes anything other than long term damage to both the torturer and torturee. But, I’m not going to tell my enemy what I won’t do, either. I would reserve the right to use EXTREME measures to ensure the possibility of averting a crisis, i.e. the Jack Bauer “24” scenerio.
Once again, again as in always, its definitional.
When one is drowning, it feels like drowning.
When one is waterboarded, it feels like drowning.
Hmmmm. Seems like the math is that waterboard is drowning? And yes, I know, what is true in math is not true in logic.
Still—
We train our own personnel about “war” by tasing them, by subjecting them to tear gas, by making them do push-ups, and by waterboarding them.
We don’t train our own personnel about “war” by breaking their bones, putting bamboo under their fingertips, or by dislocating their shoulders.
The first is harsh techniques, the latter is torture.
But evidently, there are several ways to waterboard someone. Words are slippery that way.
#8 “The question is- if you could waterboard Mohamed Atta to stop 9/11 would you? Or how about 2 9/11’s? Me, I have no problem answering that one.”
Not many takers on this question. I’d have no problem if it could save American lives.
#16–pat==thats right, and neither do they. Welcome to the gutter.
>>Not many takers on this question.
OK, I’ll take it. For every “Mohamed Atta” who will give up real details on a 9/11-style plot, we’re going to torture 100,000 innocent people who know nothing, but say whatever the torturers want them to hear to get the fuck off the waterboard. If torture is such a great liberator of truth, why not advocate using it on accused criminals in the US? “TELL US WHERE YOU GOT THAT JOINT, OR WE WILL CUT OFF YOUR FINGERS ONE BY ONE!!”. Feh.
>>i.e. the Jack Bauer “24″ scenerio.
That’s the problem in this whole debate. Too many people watching too much TV, reading too many Robert Ludlum novels, fantasizing that what works in fiction works in real life. Our brains have become soft, to paraphrase Vito Corleone.
btw, I think you meant “eg”, not “ie”.
#18 “OK, I’ll take it.”
Okay. Answer the question that ASKED. Not, your version. Waiting…
Ok, Patty. My answer is “no”. As you may have heard, They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
When the time comes that we’re willing to wallow in the fetid stinking gutter of torture, we deserve neither security nor liberty.
#20 – “They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.”
Nice dodge. I wouldn’t give up liberty for our citizens. International treaties don’t even recognize these types as deserving POW protection if captured. Although, summary execution is allowed.
“International treaties don’t even recognize these types…”
How about your moral treaties, do they recognize anything except your own ars?
#22 – I have no moral problem with executing terrorists who try to kill us. It would be immoral to let them live.
Apparently you think it’s moral to let people murder with impunity. An interesting, if not suicidal moral code.
I agree waterboarding is horrific and should be illegal. We should just do what our islamo fascist friends do and just cut off their heads with a knife while videotaping it. That’s much more humane.
>>We should just do what our islamo fascist
>>friends do
Nice. Sinking to the lowest common denominator, are ya?
As Bobbolina said, “welcome to the gutter”.
Apparently you think it’s moral to let people murder with impunity.
Where in my short post did you find that?
One more thing, execution does not equal torture.
#26 – “One more thing, execution does not equal torture.”
Yes, I’d rather be executed rather than waterboarded.
You’re such an idiot.
Never heard of finger banging?
If nothing else, you should at least watch Full Metal Jacket.
Tonight, you pukes will sleep with your rifles. You will give your rifle a girl’s name because this is the only pussy you people are going to get. Your days of finger-banging ol’ Mary J. Rottencrotch through her pertty pink panties are over! You’re married to this piece. This weapon of iron and wood. And you will be faithful. Port, hut!
You’re such an idiot
Of ‘course I am, hope you feel better now…
#29–“a”==pat does raise a few good points.
Why don’t you number your reference points?
Whats a moral treaty?
And did you transpose a key word–torture for murder or did you mean what you posted?
Stuff like that.