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A survey published last week showed that graduates from India’s most prestigious universities, the Indian Institutes of Technology (known as IITs), increasingly see India as the best place in the world to base themselves. Until about five years ago large numbers of these elite graduates would abandon home at the first opportunity to take up well-paid jobs or to continue their education in the US and Europe.
The Indian government does not compile figures of the numbers of people emigrating or returning, but Alok Aggarwal, chairman of Evalueserve, who wrote the report, said the trend of returning Indians ‘seemed to be very strong’. The pull of the West remained powerful for many Indians, he said, ‘but at the very top level of graduates, the smart choice now is to stay’. The flow of reverse migration has been particularly striking in the southern Indian IT city of Bangalore, where research published last year estimated that more than 40,000 Indian technology professionals had arrived back from the US and the UK to take up work.
The next question, of course, is will India accept out-of-work American IT graduates as migrant labor?
“will India accept out-of-work American IT Graduates..”
Nope. Because they are not not Indian.
Peace
is will India accept out-of-work American IT graduates as migrant labor?
No. And US Corporations won’t likely do so either, so one way out would be to educate yourself and start a business with your friends.
But then again, we can all sit here and bitch about it.
Bill Gates, the great humanitarian, won’t even hire americans at the same low rates he can import indians at, seems he fears they won’t be as grateful.
But its important in view of all the evidence available that USA not change a thing about how business/corporations operate in America. They need to be free to operate as ruthlessly as possible because of international competition.
All hail the corporate elite.
IFN – an exchange traded mutual fund that invests in India, a good way to hedge your job? I’m doing it a bit. I figure if my job goes overseas, at least I’ll make some money on the fund. Pathetic I know, but what the hell.
What really bugs me is that I know there’s a brain drain going on. I know I should be leaving this country and finding somewhere else to live, maybe Canada. But, I’m only smart enough to know about it, not quite smart enough to actually do it. And, yes, it hurts to know that.
This brain gain has not affected Dell Computer’s India call centers yet. None of them know anything nor can they do anything.
#5 – Mr. Catshit
That’s a really good video! LOL!
It also makes a point.
This guy can get on a plane, fly to India, and ask directions from a group of random passersby for directions -in ENGLISH- and get an answer -in ENGLISH.
In a few years time, China is going to be hurting while India is going to be thriving. Here’s why.
China is run by a whole bunch of belligerent a-holes who wouldn’t hesitate to run you through the ringer to save face. And besides that, they own a state in whatever you do there and if you have a legal problem, the system is so bad that you can forget about justice. And practically no one on the street speaks English, the international language of business.
The one advantage they have is, reasonable infrastructure.
India, on the other hand, has a populace where ~50% speak acceptable English, the government isn’t nearly so control freakish, and the judicial system is solidly based on the British system.
And they are working on the infrastructure. India is today where China was ~20 years ago.
Oh, and now I know why when I call a call center I the wrong answer. I’m talking to HIM!
#7 – Ah_Yea – China is run by a whole bunch of belligerent a-holes who wouldn’t hesitate to run you through the ringer to save face. And besides that, they own a state in whatever you do there and if you have a legal problem, the system is so bad that you can forget about justice.
Yes, the Chinese legal system is a joke. Try – as a foreign company – to sue a local company for copyright infringement and you’re very unlikely to win. Sure, there have been cases where foreign companies have won, but o’boy, they are rare.
As for India… Yes, they’re in turn to become an economic power house, but the question is if they (as the democracy they are) can move as quickly as China. China has had a tendency of stomping out any resistance to the greater economic plans (e.g. the destruction of the huttongs in Beijing). A democracy can’t run over people that way.
#8 – Ah_Yea – Oh, and now I know why when I call a call center I the wrong answer. I’m talking to HIM!
Next time, ask for Sharon… 😉
7-8-9==So the conclusion is that every system China, India, USA, Norway, (Mexico?)==has pro’s and con’s on the various different economic, social, and developmental issue, short term and long term. Totalitarian systems can be very efficient but often don’t change when everyone can see they are on a wrong track. Same with Democracies when the majority has a stick up its ass. No matter what system you have, people tend to screw it up.
#11 – bobbo
That’s the executive version of it. 😉
Funny how US people (not americans…) complain about Indians. Most Indians:
a) Speak almost perfect English (most times much better than guys from US do…maybe they use a big vocabulary and this is confusing for the average US person)
b) Speak at least two more languages (most US people speak only badly some dialect of English)
c) Have excellent technical skills (most US people have no idea how to turn on the light roperly…)
#13 – IndiANA
Thanks for trolling. 🙂
Yeah, thanks for trolling, indiANA.
It’s clear you’ve never been on the phone with Dell (or Verizon or Comcast or any other) “technical” “support”. My golly!
#13–Indiana==I read ALL the posts here as complimentary towards indians with at most a negative comment about certain US companies with help centers there. That is a slam against the US about how to set up call centers.
Can you identify for us stupid Americans which of the many posts you found to be inaccurate about indians?
#11, Bobbo, you got it right again!
The Chinese totalitarian system -coupled with their version of communism- is by far the most efficient system I have ever witnessed when it comes to getting a specific task finished.
Remember that one of the basic tenets of communism is that no one owns land. Land is community property held in trust by the government to be administered by the government. So if the government gives you notice to move, you move. Then they take the land you lived on – often family plots going back hundreds of years – and do whatever the government feels is appropriate.
You’re out of luck.
http://tinyurl.com/3r385z
The disadvantage of this system is someone makes a decision without appropriate debate and follows this decision right or wrong. Since Deng Xiaoping set China along the path of “Economic reform at any cost” we have seen the environmental situation worsen till China has become by far the worst polluter in the world. This type of economic expansion is unsustainable, and China is going to pay dearly in the not too distant future.
India, on the other hand, may progress much slower but have a much higher sustainability in the long run. We have to wait and see on this, but I suspect this to be true.
#17 – Ah_Yea – Remember that one of the basic tenets of communism is that no one owns land. Land is community property held in trust by the government to be administered by the government. So if the government gives you notice to move, you move.
And with the right connections and some money, you can get pretty much anyone evicted from their piece of land.
#6, jag,
Great video.
#7 & later posts, Ah Yea,
Good, and accurate commentary. A tip of the hat.
#13, IndiANA,
Oopps, sorry. You’re just plain wrong.
I once had to call Dell Support about an issue in 2002. I believe the call center was in Tennessee. The phone wait was minimal, the support was right (although I already knew the HD was going south), and the replacement part arrived the next day.
Around the same time I dealt with Norton Anti-Virus call center in India. I decided to phuk the remaining time on my subscription and went with AVG. I don’t miss Norton. I understand they miss me and the millions of other subscribers that have also fled their terrible tech support.
Most Indians speak a dialect unknown to western ears. I don’t know who can understand them.
#13
For the Indians I’ve known and worked with over the years through personal contact & offshore, let me respond
A. English isn’t their native tongue and it shows. I’ve know many Indians who are more comfortable speaking their own dialects to each other than speaking English.
B. Knowing more than 1 language doesn’t equal an intelligent person, it’s just a person who knows another language. If that person is an idiot in one language, then her or she is an idiot in any language.
C. Bullshit! I’ve know more Indians that talk the talk, but when it comes to technical expertise I would say 2 out of 10 (the ones I’ve know over the years) know something, the rest call their network of friends and family to find out how to do work and such. Such arrogance I’ve seen from many of these people coming here to the USA and bullshitting their way through interviews. But when it comes to getting the work done, I’ve seen may half-ass the job and cut corners.
You don’t want to hear my stories about Russians either…Oh the things I’ve seen!
Peace.
Thanks, Catshit! I appreciate the comment.
Bullshiting through interviews is damn straight. We have one “experienced” java developer from India that doesn’t even know recursion. Just pathetic.
#21 – Ah_Yea
I enjoy your comments as well. You and TIHZ_HO (where is he nowadays?) have very good insights about doing business in China.
#23 Jägermeister, thanks, I appreciate that.
I also have been wondering what happened to TIHZ_HO, and I am concerned. At about the time he quit posting, China was cracking down on free speech over the internet.
http://tinyurl.com/3w5dya
NY Times article about the crackdown around the time TIHZ_HO quit posting.
According to the article:
“This is a coordinated cleansing campaign,” said Teng Biao, a legal expert who has known Mr. Hu since 2006. “All the troublemakers — including potential troublemakers — are being silenced before the Olympic Games.”
I hope TIHZ_HO wasn’t caught up with them.
#24 – Ah_Yea
I was thinking along the same lines and I hope he’s okay. They can’t send him to Lao Gai since he’s a foreigner, but I’m sure they got other tricks up their sleeves to quiet a foreigner. I wish he would let us know.
My co-worker called tech support in India. The support person had him delete a system registry file. F’d up the whole machine. At the end of the call the gentleman said, “Mr. ***, I’m afraid we greatly enhanced the problem. You will need to have your IT personnel resolve the issue.”
On the other hand, my daughter just got back from India and said the travel experience was wonderful. She wants to go back to Bodh Gaya and Varanasi soon. The people warmly accepted her and seemed fascinated by Americans.
BTW: For geek fans, Sarah Lane traveled with husband Brendan Moran to India at the same time as my daughter. Not that they met, I just learned this searching matters concerning India while my daughter was away. Sarah/Brendan both blogged what a great experience their travel to India was and how they want to return.
So India tech support iffy, India people great!
“India, on the other hand, has a populace where ~50% speak acceptable English” I wish the doctor my company sent me to was one of them.
The call centers tend to be staffed by people who take a few English classes. The fluent ones get much better jobs. Pretty soon, the call center folks are going to have to outsource to Africa.
If only the US would educate its students as well as India does. No social promotion, no promotion of self-esteem, teachers’ administering a beatdown to unruly kids, and no new-age teaching methods like whole-word reading. Plus no teachers unions.
#22 – India_huh,
No one has a monopoly on idiots. They come in all shapes, sizes, colors, creeds, nationalities, etc.
Some of the best and worst programmers I’ve worked with have come from each of: The U.S., China, Russia, and India.
#19 – Mr. Catshit,
What I find different about India, whether we’re talking about Indians who have not been here very long or about people on the phone from India, is that they speak English. And, they speak English very well.
The problem, as you alluded to, is that they speak a radically different dialect. It’s not British, or any derivative like Australian or South African. It’s just really different.
When someone immigrates to the U.S. from someplace where people do not speak English, their English is far worse than Indian English. But, they are learning our dialect. While neither our dialect nor India’s is technically any better, it is often easier to understand someone speaking the dialect of the U.S., however badly, than to understand someone who is speaking perfectly well, but is speaking completely differently.
All of that said though, the really important bit is that whenever I am speaking with someone with a brain, regardless of where they are from, regardless of dialect and all other considerations, they manage to make themselves understood.
It is never really a language problem.
If someone can successfully survive from day to day getting by on their English, they can make themselves understood, provided that they are intelligent from the start.
And, once again, intelligence and stupidity come in roughly equal numbers from everywhere around the world. In the U.S., our brand of stupidity happens to be particularly flagrant and vocal making it appear that Americans are idiots … especially when W is in office … but the numbers really are the same everywhere.
Of course, there’s no place where the numbers are actually good. Most people are still incompetent at their jobs and are morans in daily life, regardless of whether their jobs involve saying “would you like fries with that?” or “you need brain surgery.”