I run this video for two reasons. The first is that this is probably an example of the kind of citizen journalism we are going to see more and more of. The second is that the single point being made is valid but has never been so emphasized by the mainstream media which should hound Kennedy over things like this instead of coddling him and the rest of the politicos.
And, I should mention, all the hyper-rich Democrats I know also manage such tax avoidance.
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18–Pat==What?–The George V did not have your regular suite available? Très triste.
#24–RBG–so why shouldn’t this journalist smile for the same reason? Gosh, let the joy spread as far as possible, don’t keep it for yourself.
#26–Chuck–“the issue” is that he is being a hypocrit. That’s why illegal was not used. He also isn’t being a sous chef–you left that one out.
327–J==you were on a good roll until that wife characterization. Spouses are still separate entities==for every purpose. Tax advantages/liabilities don’t remove that simple human fact.
#19 – You are an idiot.
#29 – “In many cases, the definition of “earning” has to be very flexible to apply.”
Yes, some things are parasitic. Earning money from the interest on loans for instance. That is the real capitalism. There isn’t product or production exchanged for the money, as money itself isn’t a product.
Successfully creating and running a business that produces something that people will buy (exchange valuables for)is “earning”.
#31 – Struck a nerve, did I?
#30 – “Pat==What?–The George V did not have your regular suite available? Très triste.”
I WISH I had been staying at either one.
#34–Pat==good save. Now save this==why shouldn’t income that is not earned be taxed at 100%–ok 95%. ((Funny how the poor Beatles sang about holding hands, and the rich Beatles sang about the Taxman!).
Again–with deductions, exclusions, and avoidance vehicles (trusts, gifts, cash) and a threshold of 2 Million Dollars, any concern about the Inheritance/Death/Double Dip Tax is pretty esoteric.
Reminds me of a friend of mine who wanted me to feel sorry for him because one of his tax free vehicles had just been denied and he had to pay “big bucks” in taxes as a result. I cried in my beer for him.
# 30 bobbo
Spouses are still separate entities==for every purpose.
I was making an assumption that they would file jointly. Once they do the IRS looks at them as one entity and puts the burden on both. Despite that when it comes to taxable income the spouse does not fall under the estate tax they get the money as if it was always theirs.
# 28 Ah_Yea
“you get to pay tax again on money which is after-tax income. It therefore is double-taxation. ”
No. you pay it for the first time and to you it is not after-tax income it is just plain income. The money transferred from your parents to you. It was not YOUR money just like the money your company makes is not YOUR money. They transfer some to you for your work and you pay income tax on it.
“Although the estate tax doesn’t kick in till the 2 million dollar threshold”
I think you are confused about the estate tax. Don’t you see the ability to not be taxed on income up to 2 million a befit? They could tax you on the whole amount just like if you earned it.
#20 – You really need to have trust in a family to do that… but it seems like a perfect solution if you do.
#26 – I would also agree that I would love to see a response or vs to get this cleared up.
This isn’t a response to you per se… but rather this line from your thoughtful post is a jumping off point for what I was thinking…
I would too… but as you probably know, we are a thoughtless, unempathetic society. It’s easy to say things like “all politions are slimy and corrupt”. It’s hard to actually enter into public service. It’s hard to do something beyond bitching.
Even the kid “ambushing” Kennedy is doing more than most people do, and should at least be admired for that. In truth, if he ambushed President Bush on some issue, I’d cheer him… but it is well know that I’m not only brilliant… but I’m partisan too.
I saw a tired, beleaguered Kennedy, caught off guard by an extraneous question. No matter what people think, the real lives of senators isn’t a cavalcade of hookers and parties. These people work long hours. Its exhausting. It’s hard. And they are human. We all know what being exhausted is like and we all know the answers we’ve given to questions we’ve been asked under such circumstances.
Ted Kennedy is a smart, complex public servant who has fought long and hard to represent his constituency, and his life is far more than the narrow, edited glimpse we get through the media’s eye.
People can disagree with his politics, but anyone who thinks he’s anything less than human is just an ass.
#32 – I was actually thinking more flexibly than that 🙂 For example… What does Paris Hilton “earn”?
#33 – Not really… It’s just that what you said was stupid, and even though I can’t resist pointing out the self-evident, I can, sometimes, avoid being long winded about it.
# 37 OhForTheLoveOf
“I saw a tired, beleaguered Kennedy”
He did look tired didn’t he?
What do you call a school of red herring? Oh–Post #37 from OFTLO==how eloquently irrelevant. (snark,snark)
Seriously.
The issue here is the hypocrisy of Kennedy on the Inheritance Tax. I don’t think his position is that he favors the creation of trusts?
So–the Catholic Church, the Mafia, and KGB, and Kennedy all work real hard–so what?
Kennedy is a politician. Maybe he’s not the worst, and maybe over the years he’s done some good things (actually I can think of a few)==but he’s still an incumbent politician==they should all be voted out of office, they are all corrupt by any measure of decency. If we had a transparent government, we could look up the number and types of earmarks he has created.
When you start admiring and worse defending politicians, you slop over into being part of the problem.
Companies don’t pay taxes before giving you your paycheck. Payroll is deductible.
The estate tax is a great way of enriching corporations which don’t pay the tax, and buy up their competition at cheap prices when the owners die.
# 41 MikeN
Only if the business uses it as a deduction otherwise it is considered taxable. Wait. Wait. Wait. Yeah your probably right that was not a good example using the company and all.
Let me say this instead. If I have $4,000,000 that I already paid tax on. Then I gave it to you. You would have to pay tax on it too. that’s how it works. I unlike my business would have no deduction for that.
Yeah, Kennedy is human but so is George Bush. Are you going to forgive him too?
The point is that Kennedy helps make the laws regarding taxes and yet his family has a $300,000,000 trust that is just sitting there paying only $135,000 in taxes a year. What that means is that the trust IS NOT helping out the economy by creating jobs or creating anything. It just sits there like a turd, excuse me I’m wrong, a turd at least provides nutrition for insects and animals. So, why don’t the Kennedy’s put their money where their mouth is and invest some of that money on American jobs building solar or some other new technology that needs to be built? They’d rather spend your money, hell they don’t even use their own money to get elected.
John…I think you unwittingly posted this in honor of Thomas Jefferson’s birthday today…I believe if he were alive today, he’d say:
“You are as England…”
BTW, if you hair gets much longer, you’re gonna start lookin’ like him, too! lol
#40 – The issue here is the hypocrisy of Kennedy on the Inheritance Tax. I don’t think his position is that he favors the creation of trusts?
What is hypocritical? He favors an estate tax, but he doesn’t oppose using legal means to protect personal wealth… And? What? What is wrong with that…?
So–the Catholic Church, the Mafia, and KGB, and Kennedy all work real hard–so what?
So… So when you ask the the Catholic Church, Mafia, the KGB, or Kennedy a question about whatever it is that you legitimately want to know… don’t ambush them. A hotel lobby after a 20 hour day is not a good time to run up to a guy and accuse his family of corruption.
Kennedy is a politician.
Who isn’t?
Maybe he’s not the worst,
He isn’t.
and maybe over the years he’s done some good things
He has.
but he’s still an incumbent politician==they should all be voted out of office
Why?
they are all corrupt by any measure of decency.
Why? Can you prove that? Or is it just the feeling they are corrupt that most Americans express.
We use the word corrupt too freely. We think anyone and everyone in Washington is corrupt because they seem to do things we think we don’t like. Most people, in reality, don’t actually know what Senators do. They don’t really know how lobbyists work. They don’t actually understand how laws get made (hint, it’s similar to how sausage is made)
Why is he corrupt? Can you outline something he’s doing that is corrupt? Or is this just more irrational emotion against a politician that, honestly, you know what about?
If we had a transparent government, we could look up the number and types of earmarks he has created.
We do and we can.
When you start admiring and worse defending politicians, you slop over into being part of the problem.
The problem is that instead of being involved in politics, we choose to belligerently rely on our anger, frustration, and ignorance to call foul from an armchair. It’s funny… All the politicians are corrupt. Why? Because we saw that report on channel X. Really? The same channel X we all said was biased? Yes. How can you trust them? You can’t.
It seems most people don’t trust anyone, anywhere, about anything. I think I’m better off not relying on most people’s opinions about the credibility of politicians.
#44 – Yeah, Kennedy is human but so is George Bush. Are you going to forgive him too?
Of what? What do I have to forgive Kennedy of?
I won’t forgive Bush for starting a war in Iraq because he did. But I don’t need to forgive him for what he does personally, so long as it is legal.
Look… I hate George Bush. His policies are pushing into becoming a police state and they are causing our economy to collapse. But do I get mad at Bush if some minor league hack from a blog shouts a damning question at him as he walks into an event and Bush doesn’t have a smart and detailed comeback?
No.
He’s a terrible President. But he IS the President, and my loathing of his policies doesn’t mean I forget that he’s human.
Two sides:
1. You should be able to do whatever you want with your own money, and it should only be taxed once.
2. Kids really shouldn’t be able to be rich just because their parents are – that breeds useless people, like Paris Hilton.
Ted Kennedy is a murderer who got off.
Hoo boy. This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for dirt on Teddy.
And all this nonsense about “double dipping” is nothing more than nonsense. Nobody leave $500,000,000 in cash (money they’ve paid taxes on) to their heirs. Virtually all of the big estates are comprised of stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. that the original purchasers bought during World War II (or World War I, or the Civil War) that have appreciated greatly in value over the years. No one has EVER paid taxes on the capital gains, and to expect the sliver-spoon set to be exempt from paying taxes on their unworked-for and untaxed gains is just absurd.
# 48 TheGlobalWarmer
“You should be able to do whatever you want with your own money, and it should only be taxed once.”
I agree you should be able to do whatever you want with your money.
You ARE only taxed once. When YOU claim it as income. When YOU die and it goes to anyone other than YOUR SPOUSE or a charity THEY are taxed because THEY have received NEW income. It wasn’t THEIR money before and now it is. That is NEW income.
Why is is that so hard for people to understand?
30 bobbo.
24–”RBG–so why shouldn’t this journalist smile for the same reason? Gosh, let the joy spread as far as possible, don’t keep it for yourself.”
You’re not the least bit troubled by the shallowness of our joy?
RBG
#51–RBG==absolutely NOT! Man, if you can find a smile here, a chuckle there, a smirk now and then, I say go for it. This is not a zero sum game. In fact, just the opposite. The more happiness there is, even more happiness can arise.
for instance==while I hate everything you stand for–when you said you smiled–I smiled with you. It’s a liberal thing. But still a thing. Take the broom stick out of your ass, and spread the joy.
You should be able to die without the government standing there with its hand out. It’s unseemly. Only your heirs should be able to squabble over your estate like vultures.
The Kennedy trust doesn’t just sit there. It makes money. When that money is paid to the various Kennedys, I’m reasonably sure they pay income tax on the amounts received. I’m not a fan of the Kennedys, but their trust looks a lot like my IRA. Well except for size.
“Take the broom stick out of your ass, and spread the joy.”
Maybe I just need to take all this in small steps before I can really relate.
RBG
>>You should be able to die without the
>>government standing there with its hand out.
Oh, you can. If you leave all your money to charity, the government is nowhere to be found.
It’s only when the heirs take in a pocketful of money they haven’t worked for (and never paid taxes on) that the government extends its hand.
#54–RBG==take everything I’ve posted in the last 3 hours with a grain of salt. I’ve been in mentoring status with “j” and drinking beer at the same time.
Maybe I am rotating off my ass. Who knows? What I do know is that all too often we lose track of the fact that no matter what our differences —brain dead neo-con wingnut rupukicons, or pinko liberal spineless liberals==we all still have more in common than that which separates us. So==where do you look, what do you act on?
Humor may indeed be the only thing can can save us=====if, anything can save us.
Peace, Love, Harmony. Live long and prosper.
And when given a choice?==always take the small steps. Gives you the time to breathe deeply.
I want what he’s having…
RBG
#56 The heir’s inheritance also includes a loss, the Dearly Departed. Rather than attempt to place a monetary value on the DD, the civilized thing would be to treat it as a wash transaction. After all it only happens once in a lifetime.
I’m a bit surprised that with all these comments no one thought it odd that they were using nearly 31 year old sources as evidence. I would think that if they used more recent evidence it would be a lot more effective. Using such old sources makes it seem like an ambush rather than trying to make a real point.
Related to the actual topic. Are you trying to imply that politicians and rich people might be corrupt and live by a different set of rules than the rest of us? Are you trying to say that the Kennedys might be corrupt and live by a different set of rules than the rest of us?
Crazy talk.