The Absolut vodka company has apologized for an ad campaign depicting the southwestern U.S. as part of Mexico amid angry calls for a boycott by U.S. consumers.
The campaign, which promotes ideal scenarios under the slogan “In an Absolut World,” showed a 1830s-era map when Mexico included California, Texas and other southwestern states…
Absolut said the ad was designed for a Mexican audience and intended to recall “a time which the population of Mexico might feel was more ideal.”
Uh, OK…
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I never stated that he has had nothing to do with illegal immigration. I’m just tired of people making scapegoats out of the guy in charge when the problem first started years before he ever got there. Let’s be real, people. At least he’s doing something about it. It may not be the best solution out there, but it’s the only one that anyone seems willing to try.
#31–WmDe==excellent. Funny and pointed at the same time.
#32–I don’t think Cheney would admire the flip-flopping you are doing all over the place on this issue. Imagine making a scapegoat out of the guy in charge. You are insightful to point out we should also scapegoat the prior guys who are no longer in charge. You argue like both groups of agnostics.
I’ve got my crayons out (the really cool ones in neon color with that glittery stuff in ’em), and I’m ready to go!
I have to throw my opinion at least 85% with Bobbo on this one.
A little bit of history here. NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was intended to help Mexico (and Canada to a much lesser extent) improve their standard of living to the point where they don’t have to come to the US to get decent jobs.
Well, obviously that didn’t work as intended. As with any plan, periodic reviews are essential, and the course is changed accordingly. While NAFTA was signed by Clinton, the effects (positive and negative) were not manifest until Bush. I have yet to see any significant course correction with NAFTA although it has become obvious that one is needed. This has fallen squarely on Bush’s administration.
Having lived most of my days in So.Cal and also having lived in a spanish american country for a couple of years, I do believe much of the problems with south america can be traced to it’s origins.
Yes, even now, both in the US and in other countries, how you start does influence where you are, even today. Look how often we are caught up in constitutional issues! That constitution was written with the intent of freedom and liberty, not enslavement and repression.
US was founded by some pretty incredible people. Not the same can be said of most other colonies.
Oh, BTY, It’s just a picture!
The US got to be the wealthiest nation in the world by accepting immigrants from all over Europe. Enough of the ones with the drive to get here, had the drive to work for a living and create wealth, and they had the opportunity to gain knowledge and wealth, and political power/freedom.
American Indians? Take a look at the reservations. Bunch of losers, sitting around, doing drugs, getting wasted, and falling flat on their faces in “noble primitive dignity”. My ancestors jumping the rez was the smartest thing any of the family ever did.
The immigrants to other places that are not doing so well are like the wealthy US ex-pats retiring to 3rd world countries, they want to be treated like royalty. US ex-pats to Belize are not going to make that country wealthy on their own, they are just going to perpetuate the problems there.
…i bet this map might piss off a few Native American Indians.
#34–Ah Yea–you brought your crayons to the party, but gave them to Phillep while you wrote with a sharp pen! If you are only going to give me 85%, you have to throw in a disagreement–atleast a quibble.
#35–Phillep==just too simple and actually no proof, no way to prove your thesis. But its nice to have a fairy tale that approves what there was no choice over or fought as much as was possible at the time?
I think any objective analysis will show that America got rich from several main factors THE MOST IMPORTANT OF WHICH was this was an empty country once the indians were treated like vermin that was chock-a-block full of natural resources. The second broadest advantage was we were relatively isolated by our oceans==good to prevent wars and excessive immigration. The third greatest broad advantage is that we had a country founded on democracy rather than a theocracy or sovereign class which did all kinds of good for development and innovation.
How much of wealth is built by immigrants? Hard to say as you can’t test it. Much of Americas wealth would still have come–just perhaps delayed if not for rapid growth of the laboring claasses. So, if the wealth would have come anyway–how much causation can there be???
bobbo – How have I flip-flopped? I think I’ve been pretty clear that this isn’t an issue that Bush started, so quit whining that it is. Do I like everything he does? Not at all. That’s not wishy-washy… That’s having your own opinion. If someone can’t stand the fact that I don’t support someone 100%, they can sod off.
#38–Mac Guy==I apologize. I did for some silly reason assume you wanted to argue for something relevant. I agree NOBODY EVER STARTED ANYTHING? umhhkay?
I thought the issue was who was “somewhat” responsible today. Its good to know that none of our presidents to be next year will be responsible for anything they don’t do for 8 years too.
No wonder the republicans are so fucked up. Look at their base.
Some Mexicans do want to annex the Southwest. Look up the Aztlan movement, which models itself after the PLO.
#34 – Ah_Yea
“…(and Canada to a much lesser extent) improve their standard of living to the point where they don’t have to come to the US to get decent jobs.”
I don’t know what drugs you’re abusing but I want some.
Or possibly to raise the standard of living in the US up to Canadian standards…
Peyote.
First off, this is much ado about nothing. It’s nostalgia for Mexicans, of a dream that they could have been a true power in the Americas. I bet no American’s would complain if it was an ad that showed the US expanded to control Canada and Mexico.
And #12, as a Native American, let me tell you that the English were in some ways the worse of the invaders in the Americas. Your tale of people looking for freedom does not excuse them from the atrocities they brought: decimation of my people and slavery.
The difference to me between the English or Spanish is that at least the Spanish priests recorded the history and belief of the Indians they converted. The English just destroyed all records. My tribe, from Maine, lost their language, customs and history. All we have is the name of the tibe, We all have English names.
And as for seeking freedom, that is bull as well. Wen the Puritans came they were seeking freedom for Puritanism. They wanted to make a Puritan only colony. I don’t call that true religious freedom, do you?
#43–Eric==you say so much, and most of it wrong or irrelevant.
A map showing America occupying Canada and Mexico would be offensive to Canada and Mexico===THATS THE POINT!! Absolut was stoopid thinking they could make an ad stroking Mexico and not pissing off Americans. Probably paid someone for it too.
Please identify SPECIFICALLY how the English were worse than the Spanish. Every invading culture at every time in every place kills the original inhabitants. Does this “excuse” the atrocities?==No, it must makes that issue irrelevant when one culture contests another one.
The Spanish recorded the history and beliefs of the Indians they converted? HAW HAW!!! No they didn’t. Listing the savages new christian name and the date of his conversion and what side of the mountain he came from is not preserving anything.
Name specifically what “records” of your tribe were destroyed. And don’t say you don’t know because they were destroyed. I’ll wait.
The name of your tribe is “America.” You lost. Get over it.
Hey–if everyone on the boat was Puritan, then puritan only certainly is freedom. You want people in the 15th century to act with the sensibilities of present day good folk?
So, other than everything you say being wrong, interesting post none the less.
Bobbo, read Eric Hoffer’s books. He covers how the rejects and misfits of the US built California, and the parallels with the early years of the US are striking.
http://www.erichoffer.net/
So, they were free to make use of the resources of the US? And, the Indians were not? The Indians /not/ sitting on the rez and feeling sorry for themselves are better off than their ancestors were, in absolute terms, because of the lack of the mystical clap-trap the primatives were crippled with. Those that have not fallen into the “Oh, Poor Me” trap, or the booze and drugs trap, that is.
Eric, What the heck is a “Black Hawk”? Family tradition is that one of our ancestors was one and all I can find on the net is “Go Away, Whiteye”. Sounds more like a clan than a tribe.
#45–WTF. You didn’t even read what I wrote. Or, at least, comprehension in the face of your worldview is not your best point.
What I said was not that it a map if the US would not piss off the Canadians and Mexicans (it would), but the attitude here in the US that what is we feel is okay for America to do we don’t give the same respect to other countries. This is why we call the President the “leader of the free world,” as if he rules other countries as well. That was my point: the myopia of the US citizens.
And so what if it pisses off Americans. It wasn’t ran here. You are showing your “America rulez all” bias, Mr. Patriot.
You said: “Please identify SPECIFICALLY how the English were worse than the Spanish.” I did, from the point of view of my brother in the Penobscot Indian Nation. You are very wrong about the Spanish. They did record the beiliefs of the Indians they conquered. The records exist.
Next, this is pure biggotry here: you say “Name specifically what “records” of your tribe were destroyed. And don’t say you don’t know because they were destroyed. I’ll wait.”
I already did. Our history. Our language, which was outlawed just like the English did to the Irish, any writings we had, including customs. Artwork seen as no value to English collectors was destroyed. They burned our whole culture. And for you to refute that is pure racism.
You also say: The name of your tribe is “America.” You lost. Get over it.” Yes, i am American, and wish to make America the great country it should be, and not the biggoted place you seems to like it.
And I didn’t say the Puritans should have acted like we do today; I say the myth of what they came for should be corrected and the truth of history replace the American mythology bandied about.
Remember the Taco Bell dog?
Revenge is best served cold (and in a shot glass?)
#46: And Christians aren’t saddled with mystical clap trap? LOL
Don’t forget who put the Indians on the reservations in the first place. What, when all is taken we should just smile and salute the flag?
I am not a drunk, I am well educated, as I most of my tribe. I love it when you argue with stereotypes.
As for Black Hawk, I don’t know.
Having read the recent bobbo ramblings, I come to the conclusion that I need some vodka to wash away the stupidity. It has been said that only morons argue on the internet, bobbo provides Absolut evidence that this is true.
I’m reminded of a Mark Twain quote `It is better to be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.’
#47–Eric==very spirited. Excellent. We probably are too far apart in our biases to communicate, but I’ll try. My sarcasm button is deactivated.
Regarding the map–I read your comment differently than how you express it in your second post. As a question of original expression and interpretation, its not worth arguing about as we agree on the second statement.
Absolut is an international business. Too many of these blunders and they will find out their customer base is too. The point of advertising is to gain customers, not lose them. Trusting on regional secrecy is not a good strategic plan.
I think you are saying it is better to be treated attrociously, wiped out, lose your culture and language by someone who records your history while they do it rather than by someone who doesn’t??? Ok. That was very subtle.
I have read a very little bit of the original writings of the spanish in early California at the local missions. Father (Sera?)kept a travel journal that is for sale at the missions–I read a few chapters. Describing what kinds of food the natives ate and what their medical cures were and how they enjoyed learning the word of god and giving up their heathen ways on being tortured was not an easy read for me. I guess I find no better culture than my own. Oops, sorry, the cat stepped on the sarcasm button while I wasn’t looking. OK, button back off.
Language and history is not a record. By and large I am informed the native indians did not have written records. If a few tribes did, what would preserving a dead language do for anyone today? It’s a false emotionalism-melancholy that on analysis really has little value. Why aren’t we all speaking Egyptian? – Latin – Greek – Persian – Chinese or whatever? Thankfully, the real value in life goes on supported by whatever language is used. All are sufficient for their place and times==so all old ones are best done with, just as one day English will be done with. Let not the dead hand of history suffocate the future as yet unborn.
So, SPECIFICALLY–did your ancestors have a written language??
You say you “wish to make America the great country it should be”. If by that you include the rest of the world, then we agree completely. I hope you recognize that making something better means looking to the future and not being captivated by the past? Good.
Maybe once again I am misinformed by my study of History. Who beyond 8th grade thinks the Puritans came to America to establish religious freedom? Who is that stupid? Go Ahead, name one person, I’ll wait. Oops, that damn sarcasm button.
Well, I tried.
John C – We both know that ad agencies try to be edgy and trendy, often using ironic humor as their ploy to lure us to their crappy products. My best bet is it looks like someone simply crossed the line.
bobbo – a culture need not a written language for their history to be passed down from generation. Songs and poetry have served many cultures well in this area. A few exaggerations may get thrown in there, but since when did having a written language ever stop that? Ban the language, and you thus ban the songs. Ban the songs, and you ban the history.
#47: Well, I think we can get along.
Written language, yes an no. We think it was a pictogrammish thing that recorded events, or represented spirits, to convey a meaning though interpretation, and was used with oral history. A picture is worth 1-kiloword.
I agree that Absolut has to deal with whatever criticism comes the is way, we are so connected that something printed in one region can be read the same day, when before it might never have been heard of.
As for preserving language: We preserve Latin, for instance. Having a past is important. The way Rome fell can give hints to why a civilization may fall in the future. Learn from the past, as they say. And much of what was past is part of today. Rome’s civil law is the basis for most of the legal systems in Europe (and Louisiana), the civil law system. The Sumerians used a base 60 counting system (we use base 10, or decimal, today), and that legacy is still with us, which is why we have 60 seconds n a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, and 360 degrees in a circle.
As for who believes mythical history? proably the 10 of Americans who think Barack Obama is a Muslim, the 40% who still believe Saddam Hussein financed 9/11, or the 86% who think a guy got nailed to a tree, then came back as a zombie three days later.
#54==Eric!!!==Wheres the passion????
Hard to have an argument when “facts” form the basis? I’m never wrong myself, just my facts.
Maybe some thread we can discuss the advisability of “reservations” and other anachronistic accidents of history?
#53–Mac==still batting .500. Of course the language and history was destroyed. The question was what RECORDS were destroyed. Words have meaning and oral histories and poem are not records. Hang in there, I am mostly wrong most of the time. Plenty of opportunity to point it out, if you can.
Eric that sounds like revisionist multiculti history that you were spoonfed, just blaming the Europeans for everything. My guess is that your general history is correct, but most of the details were made up.
bobbo, you’re taking it too literally. Oral histories ARE records done in such fashion as to reduce the amount of data loss as possible. Are we, then, to discount such references as the Bible? Because frankly, the first gospel was written somewhere around 60 AD.
Okay, the Bible may be a bad choice, but just because something isn’t written in a nicely-formatted, double-spaced document with proper punctuation, spelling and grammar does not mean it should immediately be discredited.
#57–Mac==.500 is perfect in baseball right? or is it 1000? I’m asking you, because you should know, being perfect and what not.
I’m being too literal?
Noun: record 1. Anything (such as a document or a phonograph record or a photograph) providing permanent evidence of or information about past events.
You are grossly misinformed if you think oral histories are records.
I might be wrong for the first time today, but I think the bible is a written thing? So, by definition, by over literal defintion, the bible is a record. I didn’t see anything about grammar in the definition, but I just may not be as up to date as our language grows. What source did you use for Oral History being a record?? I need to update my database.
Maybe now Americans will understand why Canadians get offended when they are referred to as “the 51st state”.
#59–KJones–nobody cares what a Canadian thinks. Eh? Quesque tu pense?
Seriously, yes, lets all get sensitive.
bobbo – I think you need to get your facts straight. Most of the passages in the Bible were written WELL after they the events they describe (sometimes decades, sometimes hundreds of years). Are you telling me that just because it’s written that its worth as a historical record is somehow greater than any other oral history? If so, you’re just a fool.
Oral history, while imperfect, should not be completely discredited as a source or record of information. The fact that it was transmitted orally should, of course, be considered when using its information. However, there’s no need to require everything in writing before considering its value. Otherwise, cut off your phone line and turn off your TV. Guess what? Those are oral stories, too.
#61==mac–
1. is the bible “a record?” Yes or No–or get more foolish than you already are.
2. is oral history “a record?” Yes or No–or get more foolish than you already are.
To remind you: Noun: record 1. Anything (such as a document or a phonograph record or a photograph) providing permanent evidence of or information about past events.
Hypothetical Conversation: Are there any records of native indian history? A: No.
Are there any oral histories? A: Why yes there are–or just the opposite as the case may be.
Bonus Question: do these ancient indian oral histories speak really good english or are they grammatically incorrect even by their own standards? A: Huh?
It’s the french. 5,626 billion euro to Pernod Ricard
Goddamn right wingers selling our best companies!!
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