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Associated Press – March 27, 2008:
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The parents try to minimize their inactions…
However, from a different news source we learn that they simply refused to take their daughter to a doctor, despite her being in a coma!!!
Update: This story gets better, or worse, I guess. The parents were mixed up with some wacko internet pastor by the name of David Eells, who appears to have a very strong bias against doctors. He had this to say about the situation and the medical profession:
Apparently he has never heard of medical malpractice lawsuits!  Madeline Neumann |
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#30 – Don’t mock God.
I think I will… thanks.
#31 – once we get that great national healthcare the health nazi’s will be able to take your kids at gunpoint and everything will be A-OK
If that is what it takes to prevent zealous xian nutjobs from murdering their children… yes.
julieb said, on March 28th, 2008 at 4:30 am
The religionists will be very quiet on this one.
Religions days are numbered. People are waking up to the fact that there is no god. It’s only a matter of time.
Fundamentalist atheists never bother to distinguish between different types of “religionists”.
They don’t bother to notice that we “religionists” actively (usually for free!) build hospitals and send doctors and give healthcare to the poor.
As for religion dying out… do you have a link for that? Atheists are about 2%… ( http://tinyurl.com/5cdok ) so even if you are growing, man you have a long way to go before anyone notices.
Prayer, it’s only good for missing out on sleep.
#34–Greg==so are you saying that God is not to be relied on to “intervene” in the real world? — ie, that he may have created the universe but no longer actively manages it “as if” he didn’t even exist?
If thats not what you mean by religionists building hospitals, what do you mean? What is gods involvement in the day to day things of life?
Is god “only” for the afterlife?
Mr. Greg Allen my friend, you have to take the long view. Consider the % of non religious today with 1000, 2000 or more years ago. As our real knowledge of the world grows the humans have been shedding religion. Also, the most prosperous countries are the least religious. It might take 5000 more years, but if humans survive they will grow out of religion.
http://tinyurl.com/3exqpp
All the charity work you describe is surely a great thing. Secular people and organizations participate just as well. Perhaps the desire to contribute to society and help others is innate in all of us and not the product of religion.
Diabetes is HELL… I know, I’ve had it all my life. Just a little insulin would have let her live a normal life.
The parents committed murder.
Any way I look at this situation all I see is MURDER by neglect.
#34 Greg — you say 2% are Atheists. But your own link says 2.5 % are Atheists, and a further 12.7% are non-religious (see the pie chart).
So to be fair, over 15% are not religious.
According to the Canadian census, http://tinyurl.com/2cgjyd the number of people who claim “no religion” was 7% in 1981, 13% in 1991, and 16% in 2001. Further, less than half of those who claim a religion, do not attend services on a regular basis.
So I think Julie is correct in saying the number of non-believers is growing, and is significant.
Unfortunately, this family’s religion doesn’t cover pre-existing conditions, so it’s no better than most other health plans.
Always read the fine print on your religion.
well at least in Islam you are taught to take medicines and pray also. Simple praying and not going to a doctor and taking medication is forbidden in Islam.
#34 – Fundamentalist atheists never bother to distinguish between different types of “religionists”.
Do we have to do this every time?
Of course we are talking about the batshit crazy whackball division of religion… Not normal folks who go to church every few Sundays. Not the average Jew. Not moderate Muslims. Not the typical Bhuddist… No, we are talking about people so fucked up in the head with their crazy delusional faith in their magic sky master that they kill their kid with their bullshit prayer.
But since we have to do this every time, let me ask this…
Why is it that anytime one of these issues crops up, the mainstream religious people… (the very ones we are not talking about in the voluminous posts above) …crawl out of the woodwork to defend parents who murder their 11 year old girls?
(I mean, as long as we are having his disingenuous debate where you just indiscriminately attack non-theists*)
(*who, incidentally, do not murder their children)
the fact of the matter is that God wants everyone to die. the Devil, of course, is in the details.
[Comment deleted – Violation of Posting Guidelines. – ed.]
And here i thoght liberals believed in freedomn.
I suggest that if you must avoid religion and all their organizations you need to check out your local hospitals. The Catholic ones are generally named after a Saint. Once you get into the Protestant hospitals they will not always be obvious. I suggest a Medic Alert bracelet stating “Secular facilities only!”
julieb,
You might be right that religion will be gone in 5,000 years. Or, on the other hand, atheism may be just an anomaly for this present age… a subset of communism, maybe. One speculation is as valid as another.
I don’t bring up the issue of medial care to tout the superiority of Christians, just to note that shunning medial care is not at all typical of any religion I’m familiar with… and very atypical of Christianity. Yet, fundamentalist atheists seem to be genuinely ignorant of this aspect of our faith.
This is an honest question… do atheist groups build charity hospitals, finance the sending out doctors to the developing world and the like? I really don’t know. I’ve never met one overseas but I’ve met LOTS of Christian doctors, sent as charity by churches. (and, you may be surprised, nearly all heal people without demanding they become Christians for even listen to preaching.)
canucklehead,
I stand corrected, 2.5% atheists. 97.5% other.
As for the “non-religious,” that’s a debatable number in every study I’ve every looked at the fine print of.
I assume if “non-religous” persons didn’t believe in God or some sort of spiritual reality, they’d just check-off the “atheist” box.
I was just responding to a common atheist’s belief they are taking over the world. At 2.5% that takes a lot of faith! Yet a lot of Fundamentalist Atheists believe just that.
If they were smoking weed.The parents would be off to jail, No questions asked.
#48 Greg Allen asked, “…do atheist groups build charity hospitals, finance the sending out doctors to the developing world and the like?”
That’s a strange question to ask, since atheists don’t often organize around their “lack of belief” the way that various religions organize according to their specific theist beliefs.
However, there are some notable atheist or agnostic philanthropists who seem to be fairly concerned with health issues, such as Warren Buffet and Bill Gates, to cite a couple of names you might recognize. And unlike their religious counterparts, atheists and agnostics don’t use their charity work to advance the cause of “not believing” (at least from what I’ve seen).
People who bash and criticize these parents are sick and need psychological treatment. You don’t know what happened, you only know what the doctors told reporters and investigators. That girl may have died months or years earlier had she gone to the doctor and got any one of their many poisons they force on kids they call “treatments”. Doctors cause more deaths than they prevent. One example of this was well noticed in the 1970’s when Los Angeles had a doctor’s strike. It was the only time in history, that the death rate DROPPED significantly, and was directly related to the fact that people stopped going to doctors!
If only stem cell research was allowed we could help people with this terrible disease without the need for insulin. Oh wait the religious nuts don’t want stem cell research! Don’t give me that bullshit that adult stem cells can do all the things that embryonic ones can, because it’s bullshit.
#52,
Ya, right !!!
Moran.
first of all prayer does work…god does not make no mistakes,he knew what he was doing,and the doctor doesnt always know what is wrong only god do…he see fit fir his people…so please im asking you prayer does work,but it dont work for unbelievers
There is something wrong with the parents. None of this story is truly about religion…the prayer thing is just a way to pass the blame. (Quite a lot of nerve trying to blame God, not that I’m religious.) The parents, who own their own business, had not taken her to a doctor for 8 years. Yet they had health insurance. This is very important to keep in mind since they had to seek out this insurance for their business, unlike people who simply accept whatever insurance is offered.
Why would they spend the time finding a suitable insurance for their business and then spend their money each month on health insurance if they had no intention of using it? I am willing to bet that mom or dad have been to the doctor within the eight years, possibly the siblings as well.
I do not believe that religion has anything to do with this. I doubt that it is simply a coincidence that she was recently removed from school in order to be homeschool.
I can’t believe the number of parents in the news recently that are causing or allowing their children to die. Children being thrown from freeway overpass, drowned in hotel bathtubs, 4 year old weighing 10 lbs due to starvation… What is going on??? Everyone of these parents is pointing the blame away from themselves. No one takes responsibility for their actions. This has nothing to do with abortions, stem-cell research, religion or lack thereof, and it sure as heck isn’t about George W. Bush.
Thank you to those who have added sensible comments to this discussion. For those who insist on defending the “power of prayer”, please use spell and grammar check…you wouldn’t want people to think you’re ill informed or uneducated.
#56 – Excellent, if not whimsical comment..
But is this really the place you come to to get “sensible comments”?
You know what, that is ashamed for the parents to think that they didn’t have to bring their daughter to the hospital. I have a son, and you know what if I don’t think that something is right with him, I bring him in for a check-up. Even if the parents wouldn’t have done anything, at least someone in the family should have called or at least done something to save the life of this little girl. The little girl did nothing to deserve what she got, because her parents wanted praier to save her. Well you know what, praier can’t always save someone. So I hope that everyone can learn from this so it doesn’t happen to there children.
52*
People who bash and criticize these parents are sick and need psychological treatment. You don’t know what happened, you only know what the doctors told reporters and investigators. That girl may have died months or years earlier had she gone to the doctor and got any one of their many poisons they force on kids they call “treatments”. Doctors cause more deaths than they prevent. One example of this was well noticed in the 1970’s when Los Angeles had a doctor’s strike. It was the only time in history, that the death rate DROPPED significantly, and was directly related to the fact that people stopped going to doctors!
—————————
My quote
Hmmm Lets ask your magical pixe friends what they think ey
Or maybe some magical elfs
No wait why not just ask god
Oh wait your going to have to prayer arnt ya
And i honestly bet your still waiting for an answer
———
Proof
2.5 of the population
Have woken up
The 17% of the non religious people are on the direct right path
The rest of the population repopulate like sheep and have the brain capacity of one to