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Associated Press – March 7, 2008:
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Yet another reason why I don’t even bother visiting.
I don’t think there’s anything in the constitution about forcing people to send their children to school.
I am s going to kill that stupid idiot judge. (not really, but I’m furious at him)
WTF do you mean that parents do not have the right to school their own children!? Public school IS NOT REQUIRED! OMG, I hate him!
sorry for the rant, but I am furious.
Good day
“Ninth Amendment: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
I mean, are you not even required to know the Constitution before you become a Judge?
Hmmm, a government entity ruled that the government should be the only ones allowed to teach kids.
Come on, guys are any of you really surprised by this?
#5 — not surprised in the land of fruits and nuts, but scary nonetheless.
I guess in the on-deck circle is the right of the government to tell you which sports your child should play, food they should eat, tv they should watch and last, but not least, how to turn in your parents for violations.
Ah, the USA, land of freedom, we hardly knew ye.
Headline — “People rule that you can’t be CERTIFIABLE and be a judge.”
Gee… you mean being a religious nut is not enough to ensure that a child is receiving a standard of education?
#5: It was not that government teaching, only that the educator should be qualified.
#8 LOL! Yes, and due to the high literacy rate of CA public school children, I can tell that the teachers are “qualified”. Seriously, you should consider a career in comedy.
Ever hear of “whole reading”?
Teacher Certification should not be the measure of home schooled children.
There are many children who learn better in a home school environment, many scoring above average on standardized tests.
There is also occasionally the parent who does not know what they are doing, and the kids end up way behind others their age.
Basically, its all a case by case basis. Blanket statements like this judge made are bad for many kids.
#8 — your prejudice is showing, might want to take a look at that. Also your ignorance — last survey found that a large minority of home-schoolers weren’t doing it for religious reasons, but for safety and educational ones.
And that number was growing rapidly.
Even if they are religious “nuts” — I can tell you from experience that the kids that learn the most teach themselves. A qualified teacher in a class of 30 won’t be near the help a parent can be in one-to-one time. If you graduated high-school, you can teach through it.
It’s not that hard intellectually — just requires work, work that these parents care enough to do.
If any of you actually knew any teachers, you wouldn’t be so quick to equate them with “the government.”
…as if the government were some monolithic singularity with a single set agenda.
#12 – I’ve known lots of teachers (from being a student and parent). Some are excellent and I am grateful to them for teaching myself & my children. Some shouldn’t be anywhere near a child.
I taught my children how to read, write & do basic math before they were school age. Given time & materials, I could easily teach most subjects through 12th grade level.
#12, I think the issue is this idea that the government is the only entity allowed to determine who is “qualified” to teach children.
#8 – The ‘qualifications’ for home schooling are not the purview of government. The government also does not posses the right to determine the intellectual level of the citizens. For that matter, there is almost no Constitutional provision allowing government a monopoly on education.
#13 and #14 – I know what the grumpy anti-government crowd means… This group expresses anger at an institution over the actions of the current leaders of the institution, often failing to realize that “we” elected those leaders. Government works. Our current leadership is failing (over and over and over and over and over….)
Patrick, you are right… some are exceptional and some, not so much…
Many are competent if not exceptional, all are human and thus fallible. But none are carrying out some “government propaganda agenda.” They just want our kids to read and write and think effectively, and they’d probably achieve that goal if there weren’t so many political roadblocks in their way.
I do take exception to the judge’s decision, especially regarding earlier education. I mean if you aren’t capable of teaching basic English and math skills, what good are you?
Totally agree with the judge’s common sense decision here. You should be qualified before you’re allowed to teach children. They should also be required to take the same standardized tests as public school students to make sure they are receiving a decent education.
Also, it says nothing about the right to homeschooling in the constitution. You should try reading it sometime.
#17 “Also, it says nothing about the right to homeschooling in the constitution. You should try reading it sometime.”
“Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the PEOPLE.”
Maybe YOU should try reading it! LOL
As far as being qualified goes; according to the literacy of students coming out of the CA K-12 system, apparently there is a lot of “unqualified” teachers… Hmmm.
#17, “Also, it says nothing about the right to homeschooling in the constitution. You should try reading it sometime.”
Clowns like you are the reason why we have so many of these restrictions placed on us.
The Constitution does not create rights that it generously bestows upon us. We are born with all the rights we have. The Constitution establishes a system of government, and then explicitly specifies which of our rights the government must not infringe upon.
I’ve already quoted the 9th Amendment, and if you can’t comprehend what it means, then I guess there isn’t much point in arguing with you further.
We require school teachers to have some kind of accreditation. What makes homeschooling so special that illiterate chimps have the right to teach it? This isn’t just about parents rights but about children and society. All children, no matter what kind of idiots their parents are, have the right to education.
#12 The government is the only entity allowed to do a lot of things, declar war, collect taxes, issue money, issue drivers licenses.
#20 – “We require school teachers to have some kind of accreditation.”
We require foster parents to be approved using certain criteria in order to parent others children. How can parents have the right to raise their own kids?…
Don’t ever go into a profession that requires debating skills. You’d starve.
#17 – The Ninth seems to take care of that one, as the People reserve the right to raise their children as they see fit.
#18 – As far as being qualified goes; according to the literacy of students coming out of the CA K-12 system, apparently there is a lot of “unqualified” teachers… Hmmm.
That simply isn’t true. In fact, scores look pretty good outside of economically depressed inner city schools – which receive the least funding and the least resources.
Compare Watts to Monterey or Oakland to Marin County.
#23 – As someone who has been hiring from this age group for a number of years, I can safely say it is a huge problem.
Read some of the California papers to understand the situation – The SF Chronicle had a good story and I imagine we (California) haven’t heard the last of this.
Also, all the judge did was upheld an existing law that was on the books since the 1950s. Doesn’t make it right, of course.
“They just affirmed that the current California law, which has been unchanged since the last time it was ruled on in the 1950s, is that children have to be educated in a public school, an accredited private school, or with an accredited tutor,” she said. “If they want to send them to a private Christian school, they can, but they have to actually go to the school and be taught by teachers.”
Until now, California allowed home schooling if parents filed paperwork to establish themselves as small, private schools; hired a credentialed tutor; or enrolled their child in an independent study program run by an established school while teaching the child at home.
I wonder what percentage of home school parents choose to establish themselves as a small private school to avoid oversight and independent assessment. Otherwise, some of you should read the article.
patrick…I thought whole reading has been gone for a long time.
#25 – Yes, it is gone. It took a lot of parents fighting the school system to abolish it. It was backed by the Dep of Edu, teachers union, etc. I was using it as a recent example of what “credentialed”, “qualified” school officials in CA were pushing on the children unfortunate enough to be in the “system”.
Anyone who knows what whole reading is is amazed that such an inane system was ever adopted.
#8: The need to certify the instructors and how the certification is implemented are two different things. I agree the current level of education is pathetic.
#10 and #11: Much of the superiority of home schooling is anecdotal. For each great success their is a failure. A system of certification would be appropriate to help set the minimal level of education. If these home instructors are so good, then they should have no problem passing certification. Right?
#11: I am prejudiced after growing up be being treated as an outcast for being an atheist in a very religious neighborhood, and it hurt. Many home schoolers take their children away from outside influences to make sure they are properly indoctrinated in with their narrow world views. Some are religious (see the film Bible Camp), and some are worse, namely white supremacists.
#11 (again): Graduating High School is not indicative to mastering its skills, as you seem to imply.
Fact is, if you want to go to college, get jobs, and so on, you need a minimum skill set to get by. This is what High School should teach, and in some ways, it is deficient. However, no child lives in a vacuum; the standard for minimum competence is set by the community around.
#27 – “the standard for minimum competence is set by the community around.”
Which has failed, hence home schooling.
#27: As I said before, I do not disagree. However, I hate the way so many people want to “throw the baby out with the bathwater,” (a good cliche). Whatever happened to fixing the problem. Home schoolers are running away, instead of gathering together to fix these problems.
Is the minimum standards correct: No. Who sets them: politicians. It should be built by the community, through good research into what skills kids need to know going into college and out to live on their own. It is not the system we have now.
Ask a college Dean. Things like English 101 (composition) are there to teach us how to correctly format a paper and do research for a college paper. Its a remedial course all students are forced to take because they didn’t learn it in High School.
I also feel that High School should teach kids consumer math (how to do checkbooks, budgets and the danger of credit cards), as well as a bunch of other survival skills.
But, if you feel you should isolate your kids to make them get a good education, and screw the competition, that is home schooling!