OK – I just helped a friend buy a new laptop computer. Her previous computer, a 6 year old Windows XP laptop was stolen. We considered going Mac but she isn’t rich and we found the above computer on sale at Fry’s. After checking with friends I’m told that Vista has graduated from terrible to at least not terrible. We are about to start the process of turning it on for the first time and going through the install. So this is going to be a live install and as we go through the steps I’m going to report live the good, the bad, and the ugly.
First, the specs. The above computer is a Fujitsu Lifebook A3130. Features are as follows:
- AMD Turion 64 bit X2 processor
- 2 gigs of ram – (Vista likes lots of ram)
- 160 GB drive
- 15.4 inch 1280×800 screen
- DVD Dual Layer – R/W burner, 5 USB ports, Firewire,2 PCM/CIA, memory stick reader, etc.
- Only cost $700
Amazing how much power you get for just $700. Wow!
The user is a Japanese lady named Junko. She is a normal consumer-level user who will need both English and Japanese installed. The goal is to get it up and running, download various upgrades, delete all the unnecessary garbage and install Firefox, Thunderbird, Star Office and whatever else we need to get her basically going; not doing anything fancy and hoping for “just works”.
So this article is going to grow as we go through the process. Whatever happens I’m going to write about it as it occurs. Feel free to add comments.
Unboxed the computer. It appears to actually be new rather than a return. When you shop at Frys you never know what you’ll get. They are bad for trying to sell you used and possibly defective merchandise as new, so you have to watch out. I have it plugged in and lights on the front make me think that the batteries are charging.
Turned it on. Came up in text mode at first and it appears to be installing. I’m guessing it has some kind of install partition. Gui screen up but in a “Please Wait” mode. Looks very busy. It appears to have just run an installer and is now actually booting Vista for the first time.
We are now picking the picture, user name and password. She chose the goldfish. Also got to choose the desktop picture. The eye candy has improved a lot during install. Good progress indicator bars. I hate it when computers sit there for minutes and you don’t know if it’s thinking or crashed.
I notice that the desktop icons still have that damn arrow in the lower right hand corner. I was hoping they would have gotten rid of that by now. We have gone through the second reboot. I think it’s telling us that, unless we register, some things are going to be in cripple mode. (Obviously they didn’t word it that way but I know what it means.)
I went to Windows Update first, you always do that with Windows and we’re downloading 44 updates. About 112 megs or so. So far so good. Everything has worked to this point. Still waiting on the initial updates to download and complete.
Installing updates ….. ZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzz
In the meantime, I installed Firefox and Thunderbird. If there are any other must haves leave it in the comments and put a link to where we can download it.
OK – rebooting after installing 44 updates. ZZZzzzzZZZZzzz
Took 10 minutes to process the 44 updates after boot but finally ready to log in.
Went to the menu, selected Japanese and she is now typing Japanese emailing her mother.
OK – so at this point I have to say, it just works. Not a single thing went wrong. Nothing looked stupid. The initial upgrade took a little longer than I expected but that’s no big deal. It didn’t do any nagging on registration. I assume it went out and registered with MS or something but I’m giving it a thumbs up and I’m going to say that it was the smoothest install of any OS I have ever done in my life.
Granted that I haven’t tried to do anything tricky yet and haven’t read any instructions at all, so I can’t say it’s fully tested. But for the task that I set out here, Vista gets 100% and not only did everything just work, but the presentation during the install was excellent. So on top of the 100%, I’m giving extra points for style. I’ve never turned on a virgin Mac, but the Mac would have to be very impressive to match this.
It worked better than I expected. But my expectations were low based on what people were saying. One thing about Microsoft is that even if they introduce something that’s broken, they do eventually fix it.
For those of you running a Linux desktop and wondering why people pay big bucks for Windows when they can get Linux for nothing, this is why. When you turn it on and everything just works, that’s worth paying for.
If the average person tried to do the same thing with ANY distro it would cost them more money to hire a geek than Windows cost. And even then I doubt everything would work. Linux is lucky to get the screen right and you can probably forget about using the wireless lan. And you’re not going to just browse to YouTube and watch a video.
Maybe later I should install a dual boot with Linux. Someone tell me which distro to put up against Vista. Do we have a challenger? I’d love to call Linux the winner. In fact I’m biased in favor of Linux. So – who has a Linux distro to go up against Vista?
I also have to say that this is one fine laptop. It has that, “I really like this laptop” feel. Sort of the way you feel if you own a Honda. Thumbs up on Fujitsu Lifebooks.
Glad you had a good experience. The install of Vista is quite nice. I’ve done both scratch installs and OEM installs. I always prefer the scratch.
That being said, I’ve done both OSX from new hardware and from scratch as well. The process between the two are almost identical.
As for your Linux challenge, IF you can wait until April, wait for the next Ubuntu version that will be coming out. If not, go with Ubuntu 7.10. I use it daily on a T41 and it’s truly amazing for free software. Everything works… wireless, wired, video, Compiz-Fusion eye candy, media playing… It’s just great. And stable too. I haven’t had any major crashes in a few months on constant use. Firefox crashed today for the first time in a long while, but I don’t blame the OS for that.
One nagging problem with Ubuntu and Linux in general is the sleep / resume functions on Laptops. If you try it out on Vista you’ll enjoy instant sleeps and resumes. In Linux, you get a nice fat warning when you turn on the sleep / hibernate feature that it might not work. And for me, it doesn’t work great. I usually get display corruption and have to restart the X server…
30,
Microsoft made billions off of Vista and Office sales as usual. Every new machine is coming pre-loaded with Vista. The major noise comes from a small minority on the interwebitubes that likes to voice their lofty opinions and declare that their shit don’t stink. Par for the course!
Iv said before..
the MAJOR theme of Vista, is security.
And most of it NOT for the user.
#30 comhcinc – You said it right there – most problems with Vista are not with machine specific OEM versions but with installs on “who knows what is under the hood” machines.
People like shining new stuff even if they don’t need it. If my Dad is any example he wants to use Vista only just because it is shiny and new but can’t understand why his old box can’t run it. If he were to install Vista he would quickly join the rank and file “Vista is Terrible” corp.
As far as using Linux for anything approaching serious work, sorry, forget it. That is until the software heavy weights decide to port to it like MS, Adobe AutoCAD et al… Don’t bother with all the “look I can run this on Linux” links as they are all work-a-rounds and require registry hacks and god knows what… 🙂 This is not something one would want in a business arena and certainly not something for the average user but for a hobby great!
Talking about porting this is one of my frustrations with Adobe graphic programs as Windows users are forced to inherit all the Apple Mac one button mouse + keyboard yoga exercises to do even the most simple things like “undo” et al PLUS menus are not able to be customized to add a undo / redo button… Apple Macs easy to use? HAR!!
Cheers
One detail you forgot, which is the major hassle vs. Linux: protection.
My suggestions for add-ons (based on maintaining public Win PCs for University students and office staff), under assumption that you have auto-update modern anti-virus included from the OEM:
-SpywareBlaster. Passive protection, manual updates.
-Spybot Search and Destroy. Active and passive protection, manual updates, manual executions/scans.
-Comodo firewall (why not “new and improved” MS firewall? Because this allows important customization, application by application and additional features MS ignores [personally seen Trojans stopped by Comodo that whistled by MS firewal]). User must be trained not to say “yes” to every prompt, though.
Now the sad news: even with this additional shielding (and , say NAT router or some external protection at work) inexperienced users will manage to infect themselves and mess up the system, eventually. However, without these measures they’ll do it in a matter of days.
PS Why two anti-spyware systems: none is perfect and nowdays spyware is the highway for more sinister bot-making identity stealing stuff.. I personally like this combination and have tried most of them (for a while I also run Adaware and MS tool but discarded them as ineffective vs. the abovementioned two).
PPS Don’t be confident that just your behavior can save you. Less than month ago my anti-virus caught trojan from the Discovery Channel site of all places (don’t worry, they corrected the issue).
I’m glad to see that Microsoft got on the ball! I believe that Vista is going to be to XP like Windows ME was to Win98. Microsoft is going to have to get another major OS upgrade out quick to regain ground lost to Apple.
One of my developers has a Vista machine and, for me at least, it’s a pain to navigate around the system. They “dummified” everything so that someone that actually knows what they want to do can’t find it.
For example, this developer wanted to install IIS so he could do some web development from his machine. It took me five minutes to locate where you add Windows components. Was “Add/Remove Programs” really that complicated? Really? Does anyone find “Programs and Features” intuitive?
Then, it took me another couple of minutes to find the choices for IIS. Look, I understand that having everything a la carte is nice, but when you want to install IIS with the default settings, having to evaluate every menu option is a pain. For example, after what seemed like an interminably long install (it takes less than 20 seconds on XP/2003. It took 5-10 minutes on this brand new Vista machine), I discovered that it had not installed the MMC. Why would someone install IIS without the MMC?
Every time I use Vista, it fells like I’m lost in an insane asylum and forced to ask directions.
MS should get OUT of the security business, of protecting OTHER companies, and so forth…
The RIAA and MPAA should WORK for a better format, and LOWEr prices, so they dont NEED to pay LAWYERS and Apply COPY PROTECTION, WHICh would save them 1/2 the COSTS.
Maybe you can persuade the rest of the TWIT team now. 😀
#40 Russian
Huh? :/
Do you mean that the $700 laptop from this article would cost $1400 in Russia?
If so that is about the same in China as well.
Cheers
I find the “Vista has graduated from terrible to at least not terrible” claim.
Its EXACTLY the same as it was when first released, the only difference is that at last the hardware makers have FINALLY gotten their lameass act into gear and started supporting the OS they knew was coming for 6 damn years but did nothing about!!
Windows Cripple-Me, tied to 1 PC.
Lovely.
Does she have DVDs for a fresh install of the crippleware, should the hard disk croak?
Good choice in hardware. Lousy choice in operating system. Oops, sorry, they probrably didn’t give you a choice. Fdisk that puppy and find an OS you like but for Christ’s sake don’t pay Microsoft for it. With a little luck, with the way things are going, in 10 years the only thing left in Redmond’ll be the spotted owl. (OH HAPPY DAY!) Don’t cry to me about unavailable drivers, they’re out there, they’re just hard to find. I should know I’ve done several of these reinstalls in laptops since Vista came out. You just gotta visit the components manufacturers site. Instead of the laptop’s site. Anyways when the ‘WOW’ factor wears off and your tired of wasting your equiptments resources on whistles and bells, just let us know you need help with drivers.
# 43 amodedoma “Fdisk that puppy and find an OS you like but for Christ’s sake don’t pay Microsoft for it.”
Let me guess Linux… HAR!
Cheers
45> Linux, pirated XP, hell it’s not like Baskin Robbins ya know.
I could go on and on about the particulars of why I wouldn’t recommend Vista. But it’s all been said. And after all as a technician I make money on OS reinstalls, application installs, hardware configurations, etc. If you’re just gonna use you PC for purposes MS approves of and use only MS applications, you’ll have no problems. Unfortunately by my experience, I’d say that’s less than 30% of the population. Heck, my mom uses Vista in her HP pavilion and she loves it. Of course she only uses it for internet and photo storage.
I’ve used a few different Linux distros. Most of them “just” work. Ubuntu is one of the easier distros that “just” works. I saw a video of Mark Shuttleworth on Google where he said any monkey can install Ubuntu. Telling words from a Jew who lived in south Africa?
Anyway with Linux you have much less virus and Spyware to worry about. With the Konqueror web browser you can Identify as xp running ie7 all the way thru mac and Safari or even C/PM.
Also windows media player phones home all your personal information. Windows=Spyware!
You asked for a linux version to compare to. I’d suggest using Mint Linux as a decent comparison. Another good option might be PCLinuxOS. Both of those are geared toward ease of use and ‘out of the box’ success.
Of course everything SHOULD work with Vista. It’s the flagship version for MS which has 95% of the home computers. Software producers are going to be in poor shape if they don’t make compatible products. Linux will probably have work-arounds for years to come until market share builds. We think the effort’s worth it.
#23 – les
“I am also making the transition to a Mac laptop, although it is old, a Powerbook G4. All it needs is to be flattened out.”
A much, much more effective use of ~$700. A huge, bright screen, OS X AND Windows, and no goddamn constant virus and security worries.
Poor old T_H there hasn’t actually been in the same room with a Mac in at least five years. “One button mouse.” Sure, T_H, if you say so. And cars that you don’t like still have a starter crank sticking out the grille, too – right? 🙂
If MS had just branded Vista as Windows XP 2 (or 2007, etc.) there would have been much less backlash against it. After over a year of avoiding it, I have started migrating my office to Vista Business and I have been VERY pleased with how it handles my office network. Granted, it takes some hefty hardware to really see Vista shine (not just work) but I’ve actually had fewer network problems since moving to Vista and my older XP machines co-exist just fine with my Vista machines. My experience wasn’t as nice when I was migrating from Win 98 to XP. Is it worth the money and hype? Probably not for the average user. But in an environment where many computers must operate together, Vista has been a pleasant surprise.
Be sure to remove any Windtalker games if part of the bloatware. Because; if you play one, then it installs adware that is very hard to remove.
#50 the Three-Headed Cat
HA! You did not understand what I was talking about! Some examples…
Adobe Illustrator (originally for Apple Macs) to undo an action – press ctrl+z or click Edit and click “undo” from the drop down menu – THATS IT
Corel Draw (originally for Windows)to undo an action press ctrl+z or click Edit and click “undo” from the drop down menu OR simply click the “undo” button icon on the menu bar SHIT that’s much quicker to use menu buttons and hey, I can also customize the menu buttons how I like? That’s great!
AutoCAD (originally for Windows) also customize menus, use of menu buttons, or keyboard
Adobe creative software is all written for Apple Macs and is ported to Windows the same as Microsoft Office is written for Windows and is ported to Apple Macs.
I worked with graphic people for more years than I care to remember and a common complaint they have with Apple Macs and software is all the press this and that together while with Windows you can set up the menu buttons how you like it and with less keyboard and mouse clicks. Its what you get used to I know. With Macs you get used to all the keyboard clicks and you don’t notice it anymore.
So tell me how do you delete a file with Apple Mac OS X? What’s involved?
Windows press the delete key… Simple
Understand now what I mean? If not I’ll type a little slower… 🙂
Cheers
…??? what does any of that have to do with Apple? Your gripe is with Adobe, et al. If they didn’t see fit to provide, like so many others do, an ‘Undo’ onscreen button or contextual menu item, then that’s their decision. Bitch to them.
And please accept my condolences on your broken hand. You know, the one that somehow prevents you and you alone from pressing the Command key with your thumb while hitting ‘Delete’ with your index. An additional, tiny protection from accidental, inadvertent deletions of possible important items. You don’t need that, never making mistakes, as you do, am I right? One-key deletion of files. The slam-dunk proof of superiority in an OS. Good to know… 🙂
Good writeup. I think Vista is finally coming into it’s own. SP1 should fix most of the problems people are having.
However, you’re comments about Linux are not really fair. You are talking about a box that came with Vista already installed. There are vendors for Linux that can do the same thing (not Fry’s or Best Buy or course, but Dell does offer them) that will give you pretty much the same experience. In fact, probably even easier, because there will be no registration involved. Any machine that comes with an just about any OS should be painless to start up and run if the company who sells it has any knowledge of the OS.
As to the person who says Linux can’t be used for professional use…I use Mepis Linux 7 for just that. I run Open Office, Firefox, Thunderbird and more right out of the box, no setup or configuration required. Contrary to what most people will tell you, installing from a large pool of available software is an extremely simple affair in modern Linux distros. Most can even booted from a CD so you can try it out on your computer without installing anything.
I also run Photoshop CS and Quickbooks (admittedly, not the latest versions, but I’m just not compelled to upgrade) using Wine. Neither required jumping through hoops or editing scripts to install.
No, I’m not a Linux zealot. I’ve used pretty much every OS offered over the years, and if it does the job I could care less what name is on it. I’m currently enjoying Linux because I can forget about spyware and viruses, and it’s extremely stable. I also like OSX for those same reasons, but just can’t afford a MAC (note to Apple: get smart and un-bundle your OS. I’d buy it in a heartbeat if I could install it on any machine I buy).
Here is another vote for Mint Linux as an alternate OS. It is fairly easy to install and everything just works with the exception of scanners and wireless. And wireless will work after some tweaking that isn’t too hard to do.
I installed Linux Mint the other day, it took about 10 minutes…
I just bought a Toshiba Notebook
Turion X2 64bit 2.2 Ghz
3GB RAM
250 gig HD
15.4 inch screen
Vista Home Premium
Lots of nice gizmos and doodads
First, I have to teach Vista that it was the bitch and I was the master. Kill Aero and set GUI to Win2K mode – (and that increased speed very noticably).
Fortunately, Vista is pre-activated on the notebook, so no hassle there.
Now, strip the OS of ever trial version of this, demo of that, pull out MSConfig and stop things from running at startup.
Disable all security features and disable all security nags including the freaking UAC. This is fine because I’m sitting behind a firewall and all I’m going to do is open Explorer to a blank page, then go get firefox… which I use to grab all the security apps I’ll use in place of the weak ass MS security apps.
Now I load Office 2003 (because really, what does 07 have that a single user needs?) and some adobe apps and anything else I might “need” on the road. Then I load a few games like Civilization (laptop friendly stuff).
I have to say, I hate Vista’s doting mother security system. But its all easily circumvented.
Generally, however, Vista is running beautifully on my laptop… …the exact opposite of my experience with the desktop I built a few months back. I found the 64 bit version of Vista Ultimate to be uninstallable and while I did get 32-bit running smoothly, I could never get it to provide actual 5.1 audio support properly so I just gave up eventually and returned to XP Pro.
As fate would have it, I did talk to a developer at Microsoft today (by sheer coincidence he called me for help with my company’s products) and he told me that Vista does work insofar as 5.1 support goes BUT it has been buggy and that the user experience they have seen has been very subpar and that there are many issues to resolve.
He offered to help me out with my rig’s sound so if I learn anything interesting, I’ll report back.
Most of that wait is for loading junkware and not Vista. I have had several computers that I loaded just Vista Premium. It took less than a hour.
I just bought a HP compaq Laptop and I swear it was a couple of hours of straight uninstalling of all the crap software and trials. Even HP got into the act. Even though Vista pretty much does a good job by itself. HP had to load a bunch of redundant software tools that Vista already has. Even rebranding some Vista tools to look like HP tools!
Frankly anymore, I just want to buy a computer without any OS and buy or download my flavor of OS and install it myself.
#59 – Frankly anymore, I just want to buy a computer without any OS and buy or download my flavor of OS and install it myself.
I actually talked to a guy at Microsoft about that too.
I used to think that MS promoted the repackaging of the OS onto proprietary “restore discs” as part of some scheme to make piracy harder.
Turns out, MS has always wanted to have OEMs ship the OS pure (or with slipstreamed drivers) on one disc and the “apps” on another so the user can have a more pure out of box experience with less hassle. But the third party software makers offer too much payola to get their crap on the PC and to make it harder to remove.
In fact, Toshiba offered to stop gumming up the system with third party apps IF Microsoft paid what the third party apps had paid.
Hell, on an individual laptop, it can’t more than 10 to 15 bucks, and I’m so willing to be mugged, I’d pay $50 more just to get a clean OS and an essential drivers disc.
#58 OFTLO
“set GUI to Win2K mode”
Can ya’ help a newbie out? how’d you do that?
If I could get Aero for XP I’d be in heaven.
Office07’s UI actually is superior to 03’s. I’ve found myself pleasantly surprised by that. Even with the eye candy, it doesn’t seem to be slower than 03 was either, which is another p[leasant surprise. Beyond the UI, there’s nothing functional I’ve seen that would justify paying for an upgrade (unless you need multi-value Access fields – and if you need those you’re doing something wrong.)