The European Commission will propose tomorrow that all foreign travelers entering and leaving Europe, including U.S. citizens, should be fingerprinted. If approved by the European Parliament, the measure would mean that precisely identifying information on tens of millions of citizens will be added in coming years to databases that could be shared by friendly governments around the world.
The United States already requires that foreigners be fingerprinted and photographed before they enter the country. So does Japan. Now top European security officials want to follow suit, with travelers being fingerprinted and some also having their facial images stored in a Europe-wide database, according to a copy of the proposal obtained by The Washington Post. U.S. government computers now have access to data on financial transactions; air travel details such as name, itinerary and credit card numbers; and the names of those sending and receiving express-mail packages — even a description of the contents.
“With biometric data, it’s much easier to track people and know who has come in and who has gone out, including possible terrorists,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak publicly. “It seems like a steamroller,” said Sophie in ‘t Veld, a Dutch member of parliament who follows privacy and security issues. “There is a new trend in particular in the U.S., the E.U. and Australia to register every single detail of our life. We’re tagged. They can follow everything we do. They know where we are. The whole question is: What for? Does this actually make the world a safer place?”
The Bush administration says it does.
I will be happy to submit my fingerprints, DNA, body scan, facial scan, psych evaluation, sperm sample, laptop, cell phone, contents of my wallet, shoes, socks, toe jam, and anything else necessary to fight terrorism. Have I left anything out?
Sigh… and to think that we ‘fought’ the cold war precisely to avoid this kind of government monitoring and control. Another Republican administration and we will have checkpoints and visa requirements for Americans to travel between our own states.
It wouldn’t be as sad if it wasn’t that it only costs about $2000 to get a ‘coyote’ to move you across the border. And no size wall is going to help that (see war on drugs for reference). So as with many laws, this does nothing to stop the determined, and affects everyone else in the process.
It’s a matter of speculation that all these freedoms we are trading for security will keep the terrorist at bay. My only question now, who is going to protect us from government once they finish collecting this information?
Since genuine terroism doesn’t actually exist nowadays, you would be offering up your personal details for no justifiable reason.
Stand up for your privacy, no-one else will.
“I will happy to submit my fingerprints, DNA, body scan, facial scan, psych evaluation, sperm sample, laptop, cell phone, contents of my wallet, shoes, socks, and anything else necessary to fight terrorism. Have I left anything out?”
Yes, you’re liberty. Oh, nevermind.
doesn’t bother me one bit. it’s just a finger print, something you leave all over the place all the time.
@Comhcinc:
We’ll see what you have to say when they pick you up because your fingerprint matched a “partial” of a known terrorist.
Note this has already happen with the current system.
Just imagine the number of false positives with the vastly expanded database they are busily building even now.
yeah untill that is a mixup in this database and you are listed as a terrorist… and ya know… computers are never wrong………….
Well, we haven’t yet gotten back to being required to sign a loyalty oath to get a job. Be assured. It will return.
#1 Give it a rest. This is about Europe fingerprinting travelers to their countries. How does that have anything to do with the Republicans in this country. And by the way, its a good idea. A country should know who is coming to visit. I have nothing to hide, do you??
This is just like DRM. For thoose whos it’s supposed to protect against it offers little to no challange at all. But it’s a huge inconvenience for everyone else.
#9. An expectation of Privacy is not an admission of wrong doing.
You see!?! This is George Bush’s Amerika!!! er.. oops, never mind.
#12 You have an expectation of privacy when traveling to Europe? I must have missed that.
To cheer you up: The European Parliament is known to often refuse Commission proposals. (I think they’re pissed, because Commission and Council get much more attention. Just kidding…)
For example the software patent directive was voted against by 95% of the MEP’s.
And even when it passes, european bureaucracy will take “care” of the problem. 😉
#14 gquaglia –
Make a list of things that we found wrong with the Soviet Union, and you will be creating a list of things that the United States is accepting as their new norm, all in the name of ‘security’. Everything from secret tribunals, massive monitoring of all forms of communication, travel restrictions and tracking, etc.
This new rule may apply to Europe, but it has been well established in the USA. You have NO rights as an American as far as the US customs system is concerned. NONE. You are not an American in a US airport in the US Customs area.
In case you haven’t realized it, Passports are needed now to exit and enter the country, so your movements can be tracked by the government, just like in the old Soviet Union. All significant bank transactions are recorded and reported to the Government by the banks, including ANY withdrawal or deposit of $2000 or more. Your DMV record (including any parking tickets) are part of the FBI database. Your Internet Browsing is required to be held by ISPs for 6 months, and may be requested at any time and for any reason by a government agency. Your very movements are tracked by those little convenience toll thingies (FastTrack in Northern California) even when you are not on a toll road. Your Cellphone conversations are openly accessible to the government. Your purchases of nasal decongestants are tracked. Your political party affiliation, your ‘activism’ is closely tracked by government agencies. Over 70% of police are now in ‘plain clothes’ and undercover.
I may have nothing to hide, but in the eyes of many you do have plenty to hide. Didn’t go to church regularly, or went to the wrong church? Went to an anti-war parade? Visited Mexico at all? Do you have friends that did any of the above? Congratulations… you are now a suspect.
#9, I have nothing to hide from any benevolent, competent agency that can accurately and securely collect data which it uses exclusively to for legitimate purposes, and only after extensive checks against human error.
It’s the agencies that exist in the real world that scare me.
You forgot urine and stool sample, just leave them your underwear.
Geez I hate that “you must have something to hide” argument. It can be used to justify anything. Let’s put monitors in everyone’s houses to prevent child abuse! You have nothing to hide do you?
#9. Everyone has something that they would like to keep private, you are a liar if you say you don’t.
To me it is the same concept as innocent until proven guilty. Since when are we guilty until proven innocent?
I don’t think any country has any right take my fingerprints since I use a US passport to get into their country. Since I have a passport they already know all about me anyway, or at least should have it. Of course, it may be possible that the traditional reason for needing a passport to visit other countries is for proof of citizenship only and the information about the person with the passport isn’t shared.
However, I would have expected that by now the different countries are sharing this information and/or checking on a person as they enter their country. Why do we need fingerprints taken at this point?
Actually, I think this is the EU just doing a tit-for-tat against the US since the US now has a stance that European flights entering the US have to have armed US soldiers on the plane.
Are we expecting another attack on the US this year?
And you, sir, would give up all of your privacy.
It was Franklin that said that those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. That person is you.
65 years ago a guy named Hitler would have loved this system. When the Brown shirts get there hands on the data, were all screwed.
>>> # 3 eaze said, Since genuine terroism doesn’t actually exist nowadays, you would be offering up your personal details for no justifiable reason.
OK, OK, I’ll take the bait. What do you mean “genuine terrorism” doesn’t exist?
Considering my personal experience with those guys, it’ll take some convincing!
I feel like Chicken Little here but I’m serious:
pretty soon you will need pre-permission from the government to travel. http://tinyurl.com/3c5veg
Why does nobody seem to care about this MASSIVE shift in what we call freedom?
The worst part is that fingerprinting is not a science. It is more in line with Astrology or art appraisal. It is a horribly flawed sudo science.
“Have I left anything out?” Your civil rights? On the other hand, I travel extensively and do not object to them checking my fingerprints as long as they use them in a database to realize I am frequent and benign traveler. I have a friend who is a respected physician in Florida. Of Jewish descent, he is one of those unfortunates who needs to shave about every thirty minutes. Worse, yet, his last name is a close (not exact) match for someone on the no-fly list. Imagine if Barack Obama got refused permission to travel because Obama is close to Osama! It would seem an easy thing to do to put his passport number into the database so it says – Osama=no travel, Obama=okay to travel. Or maybe: fingerprint=Obama=okay.
Haha “innocent until proven guilty” I think your justice sysyem lost that a LONG time ago..
HAR! Tit for Tat!
Cheers
Remind me again what fingerprinting and/or photographing everyone who crosses a border is supposed to / going to achieve?
Um, nothing?
This is another of the countless examples of absolute bs being flung all over the place in the interests of ‘security’ and ‘terrorism’. Cough cough.
How did we manage to live without the government apparently trying to ‘protect’ us from the ‘baddies’. Poor civilians, in need of such protection from the government. Maybe I need a barcode or microchip at birth so the government can make sure I don’t get up to any mischief, er um… so I am ‘protected’ from whatever the next bs threat is.
Fingerprinting = Astrology? You are really a moron. Best get back to the french fry fryer, the customers are waiting for their combo meal.