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United Press International – 2-8-08:
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I think Mr. Ham has confused evolution with eugenics as used by Nazi Germany and is barking up the wrong tree.
Although the Louisville Courier-Journal reported the story, the museum is not in or near Louisville, it is in Northern Kentucky, in the greater Cincinnati, Ohio area.
Guess I’ll have to go commit genocide then, seeing as I believe in friggin’ REALITY!
What Mr. Ham argues, if one reads/listens to him, is that the essence of the thoughts of Darwin lead to the Nazi Eugenics. Not that Darwin was a Nazi, but that this is a consequense of the ideas of survival of the fittest when applied to man.
There is no single theory of evolution. Some theories state homo sapien came before race some theories say after race. A very big difference think about it!
The bible talks about beasts, natural brute beasts made to be taken and destroyed. Not just the old testament check out 2nd peter ch2 in new testament “people” are referred as beasts note KJV!
Anyway race differences are real the word “racist” is a pejorative of true facts and feelings.
“A word is a term of derision, or a phrase is pejorative, if it implies contempt or disapproval. The adjective pejorative is synonymous with derogatory, …”
I’d like the specific language that Darwin used to promote his race theories.
Given the majority of his work was based on birds beak shapes and tortoises, calling this speciation racists demonstrates more insight into his work than may have been put in.
As I understand it the genome shows that we are all closely related and the concept of ‘races’ of human beings is nonsense.
How can you argue with stupid?
Ken Ham has evolved the ability to put his head completely up his own ass.
In all seriousness though.
I guess since the scientific evidence for creationism is so lacking, Mr. Ham is being forced to use the old “Well your Nazi if you believe X” tactic.
Evolution has been used to justify genocide, but then again, so has religion.
#7–Common observation shows that all human beings are more alike than different–but if we focus on the differences, again common observation and common sense demonstrate that races do exist.
Who you gonna believe–the last headline you read, or your own eyes?
So he believes in some fantastical, laughably absurd version of world history because he thinks some nutjobs twisted the facts into hateful ideas. hmmm
#10 There is no such thing as race. To believe in race you’d have to believe:
1) There was 1 male and 1 female from each race from the beginning.
2) There has never been any breeding between races.
3) There is such thing as a “pure breed.”
None of those things are true. The differences you see with your “own eyes” are largely due to environmental factors. (Darker pigmented skin closer to the equator, paler skin closer to the poles.)
Ethnicity is real, race is bogus. All you have to do is try and label some people with their “race” and you’d realize how absurb the idea is.
My girlfriend’s nephew has a black father and an east Asian mother. What race is her nephew? And then let’s say he has a child with a woman of mixed ethnicity. What race would you call their child? This mixed breeding amongst humans has been going on since the beginning.
The differences you’re talking about are not attributable to race, so sometimes what your eyes see don’t tell you much about the truth.
If you *actually* listen to what he has to say about this topic, you will see that his opinion about this is actually well reasoned – even if you disagree with his conclusions.
All creationists have goofy beards.
#12–I disagree. The eyes tell us the truth if the brain is not clouded.
The races are in the most simple language: white, black, yellow, red, and brown. Within these groups there are general medical conditions that are well documented and known to us all. Will you deny the best medical treatment to these groups because of your political correctness??
The only thing confusing the obviousness of the above is the racism and misuse of the objectively true labels. This most easily plays out as demonstrated by your post. There are pure breeds all over the place–confirmed by the genome project as they try to track down some genetic disease.
The fact that more and more people are mixed race and the categories are misapplied more often than not, is more a statement about human error than scientific fact.
# 5. The brute beasts of 2 Peter 2 is a reference to those who are bold, arrogant and not afraid to slander celestial beings. The text says that they blaspheme in matters they do not understand. I believe it is a fitting description of many hardened atheists and also of blind, bigoted theists. “They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.”
If you call “racism and genocide” “survival of the fittest,” then yes it does. What “creationists” forget is that we humans are part of nature, animals, and are inseparable from it, not above it. We’re also the only animals to have organized religion.
@16–Way to go Shubee==one informed vote for “KIll anyone who disagrees with me” camp of idolaters. Despots the world over and through out time salute you.
Yes, Luke. Sure. Since there are mongrels – mutts, hybrids – therefore the classifications of German Shepherds, Chihuahuas, Miniature Poodles, Border Collies and American Staffordshire Terriers DO NOT EXIST. They only THINK they do. They are all identical. None is larger or smaller. None can run faster than another, none is more trainable, or more loyal, or has any advantage in fighting other dogs. None of them has any advantage over any other in cold climates or hot. They are all equally docile and equally vicious.
The parallels between the variety and variability of dog breeds and human racial groups are strong across many levels.
Ever since the publication of the Marxist Lewontin’s 1972 paper, his fallacies have been incessantly repeated by those with a political ax to grind. However, among geneticists, and more so every day, it is no secret and it is not even a source of contention. Races exist. Our genes prove it. The evidence of your own senses should be sufficient, but Marxist propaganda, particularly the highly dishonest distortions of science of Lewontin and his Harvard Marxist comrade Stephen Jay Gould, has poisoned the discussion and misled entire generations into swallowing left-wing extremist propaganda.
The scientists who work most closely with these issues keep their traps shut in public, and their heads down, to avoid the relentless, merciless, self-righteous ad hominem attacks which are aimed at any who dares try inform the public that they are being misrepresented.
What a pathetic crock.
#7 hit the nail on the head. I’ve heard an argument where Evolution was used to justify racism. I laughed then, but the argument was there. If you take evolution to ridiculous conclusions….you could say that the other races are somehow a different “Species”. Look at different species of parrots. The only difference in some of their cases is the color of their plumage. So why not?
The problem with that argument, of course, is that just because parrots can be of a different species based on the color of the plumage does not make one parrot superior to the other. The same can be said of humans with different plumage. If you think whites are superior to blacks…why not redheads superior to brunettes. Or do you think people with green eyes are racially superior to those with hazel? Skin color has about the same significance
Also, to those that say there are no races…please find me a white guy with sickle-cell. They’re out there…but uber-rare.
#8, Improbus,
How can you argue with stupid?
Good point. Yet so many like to. For example in #5.
There is no single theory of evolution. Some theories state homo sapien came before race some theories say after race. A very big difference think about it!
I’m not sure who owns that single theory, … . (but we shouldn’t point out other’s grammer errors, (snicker, snicker))
What is relevant is the most accepted theory which states there is one common ancestor for all mankind. And homo sapien is the name for modern man. Modern man came out of Africa and includes all races.
Or #9,
Evolution has been used to justify genocide, but then again, so has religion.
Ya right. Maybe in some gigantic RISK game. I am unaware of any “genocide” based upon evolution.
***
But how do you argue with stupid? Well, you could just play along with stupid on a visit to their museum.
I had an old hound dog named Ham who was demonstrably a lot smarter than this guy.
So, how come this guy gets quoted by United Press International and they never even interviewed my old dog?
#23, Cinaedh,
How much money and how many votes did your “Ham” have?
/s
Looking at Ken Ham’s picture above, am I the only one here that assumes he eats gravel and live rodents for breakfast?
#19 The pathetic crock is that you believe there was at one time 1 male and 1 female from each race and they started off on their way populating separate plots of land on the planet and then only recently have started getting together because your church reluctantly let them date at the sock hop.
Just because you say our genes prove race doesn’t make it so. Biologically humans do not have categories just variations when you move amongst different populations. There are lots of credible scientists who understand this. And interestingly they’re not afraid and hiding in silence. Your silent geneticists are just like the lapdogs for big oil or any other organization that has an agenda to protect. I’m sure I could find some “scientists” who’ll insist that the world is flat but their truth is being stifled by left-wing propagandists too.
But your dog analogy is all I need to hear to know that you have no idea what you’re talking about and you’re trying to rationalize an ideology rather than be open to the facts. There simply is not enough genetic diversity for races, or subspecies.
Race is a social and cultural construction and can’t be tested scientifically. It’s kind of like, umm, oh I don’t know, intelligent design maybe?
Your Marxist rant shows that your views are absolutely political and have nothing whatsoever to do with science which means we’re not even talking about the same thing.
You might consider getting your science from Disney World next time, because that’s just as reasonable of the Creation Museum and a hell of a lot more fun.
#21–Calin==you don’t understand evolution or species or race at all do you.
Simply put–parrots of different colors DO denote different species and different species have different attributes for success in any given environment–aka–are “better than” other birds if put to an environmental challenge.
But you do nothing but portray the ignorant trap. Just because the Nazi tried to use racism/darwinism/Wagnerian Music to justify their drive for power, does not mean that races/evolution/and Wagner do not exist.
I have not intitmated AT ALL that any race is better than any other. Only that certain medical conditions are variously distributed. Now==black are superior to whites at the equator if you have no clothes and don’t want to get sunburned. Whites are superior to blacks if you are at the northern latitudes and don’t want a vitamin D deficiency. I don’t call that “superior” but simply adapted to their environments.
#26–you posted #19 instead of #20. Yes, all dogs are one species. All humans are one species. Certain variations within those species can be called “breeds” but for humans, we say races. Can’t you believe your eyes and head–or is one or both defective?
Sorry to say this, however, if I was stuck next to this guy on a 8 hour flight, the only thoughts on my mind would be how to open the door to either push him or jump out. 😉
Cheers
Evolution is just fine when it’s being studied by scientists, who have continued to improve on Darwin’s work while genetic research turns up even more fascinating evidence of not only natural selection but adaptation. But just like the quackery that forms around any medical advance or the silliness that drives people to create new religions every time the Hubble Telescope sends us a new picture, there is no shortage of idiots out there willing to start making shit up to justify their own prejudices. This did happen early in the 20th Century and was supported by people now considered heroes like Margaret Sanger and opposed by people we now ridicule like William Jennings Bryan. Ms. Sanger was a lot more interested in stopping the poor from reproducing than she was in women’s reproductive rights. Bryan didn’t know much about science but he did read that textbook Scopes was using, which advocated controls on the reproduction of inferior humans. Even with his religious bent, I’d like to have him around today as he’d make John Edwards look like a conservative and would be W’s worst nightmare: a religious populist who wouldn’t be a stooge for the wealthy. Fortunately for this country, Bryan’s opinion prevailed. Unfortunately for millions of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and the mentally retarded, they found a home in central Europe where science was considered nothing more than a way to rationalize prejudice.
This goof in England is off base when it comes to evolution as we know it today but I think it’s healthy that we’re reminded of a time when elitist white folk thought they knew what was best for the species.
I’m wondering should I even dip a toe in the water here as talking common sense to some people is like banging your head on the table – just makes your head hurt and the table is still there.
🙂
Cheers