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WNWO NBC24
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The mayor’s spokesperson Brian Schwartz said, “the mayor asked them to leave because they frighten people. He did not want them practicing and drilling in a highly visible area.” Police issued a press release earlier in the week saying the marines would be wearing green camouflage uniforms, operate military vehicles, carry rifles, perform foot patrols, and fire blank ammunitiion during the exercise. The unit was notified about 3:30 p.m. after an advance team arrived in Toledo. Five buses carrying some 200 marines traveled four hours from Grand Rapids, only to find out the training had been shot down. NBC24 spoke to Jack Smith who recalled that after the marines last visit, he and the mayor had a heated exchange about the training.
“He told me he did not want them, as he put it, ‘playing war in Toledo,'” Smith recalled. “I told him, as a former marine, that if one young marine’s life is saved because of training he or she received in Toledo, Ohio, then it was worth the inconvenience.”
Smith said if the mayor objected, then he should have been the one to convey those feelings to police. Smith took his run-in with the mayor as an objection to that last visit, and not future training in Toledo.
It seems a jarhead can’t get a break these days. First Berkeley, Ca., now this.
A Marine is not a Jarhead.
The term comes from the look of the flat top haircut and closely shaved sides, also called “high and tight”. Its not derogatory.
#1: the planners of this exercise apparently need to think outside the jar and find somewhere else to train. Secondly, Marines have been known as jarheads for a long time, so live with it.
It’s one thing to have a recruitment station in a town. It’s quite another to play war games in the midst of a city (and not even the city where their unit is located), especially without notifying anyone they planned to do this. To your average civilian, blanks sound exactly like real rounds, and there would have been hell to pay when someone called 911 and the SWAT team came in with real rounds.
41’39’30.47’N 83’31’43.25′ W
Promenade Park is a residential community. Residential as in people living in homes with children playing in the front yards and mothers cooking apple pie with the kitchen window open. Is there no vacant, desolate and realistic neighbor hood in Detroit (down the street) to train? How about a couple hundred solders playing war running around your neighborhood all day and night for a couple days???
Just another asshole politician trying to cash in on the antiwar bandwagon.
Civilians usually seem to enjoy these exercises. Lawnchairs on the porch to relax and take in the unfolding entertainment is not uncommon. I was lucky enough to be at the beach once for an amphibious landing. It was great fun. I didn’t see anyone who was sacred, and the kids seemed to have a great time following along as the Marines crawled across the sand.
#4 “41′39′30.47′N 83′31′43.25′ W
Promenade Park is a residential community. Residential as in people living in homes with children playing in the front yards and mothers cooking apple pie with the kitchen window open.”
Um, no. Your Lat/Longs are way off. Promenade Park is a park with benches that overlooks the Maumee River. I’ve been there many times for events like Ribs on the River and such. No houses with apple pies. Just a nice open area of grass in Downtown. One might say that it’s perfect for these exercises.
#3 “…especially without notifying anyone they planned to do this.”
They notified the Toledo Police Department and got the OK in advance. They even had a liaison group here early to set the whole thing up.
One thing to remember about Toledo’s illustrious mayor is that he went on the record to say that he wanted deaf people to live out by the airport in order to reduce noise complaints. (Wish I could find a link to that story, but it happened several years ago.)
So for us, this is no surprise.
Thanks for the correction #7 I got that from Google Earth.
I don’t know, but I bet that federal programs for Toledo will suddenly start drying up…
As a general proposition, it is ridiculous to think people should put up with “war games” in their streets.
Specifically, yes, if the military can do the groundwork to get real buy-in by all involved—then “ok.”
I thought $Millions$ have been spent on virtual reality simulations to give this experience?
Nice to see the military planning to suppress civilian uprisings though, makes me feel proud of our democracy.
#10. bobbo- “Nice to see the military planning to suppress civilian uprisings though, makes me feel proud of our democracy.”
The hidden meaning in my post, and you got it. Congrats, I was counting on you.
#11–McCullough==THAT was very well hidden. You sure? Maybe a straight post of the event could be a “National Treasure” hunt of some sort but its not fair to end your post with the red herring of the reference to the Berkeley Situation which is very different.
Actually, I was going to comment on how different the two issues are, but by the time I write 2 paragraphs, I normally forget where I am or what I’m doing. Causes lots of typo’s besides my sticking keyboard.
I also thought the term Jarhead was rather affectionate and I’ve never seen a jarhead take offense at the term unless it was meant that way. Words are like that.
Keep the good stuff coming, I need targets.
#10, Bobbo,
As a general proposition, it is ridiculous to think people should put up with “war games” in their streets.
I guess it would be about 150 miles from Grand Rapids to Toledo. What would be the matter with them exercising in Grand Rapids? Or Kalamazoo? Or Battle Creek? Or Lansing? Or Detroit? Or shoot, a very nearby town like Holland or Zealand? Ya, show them Dikewalkers how the Marines do it.
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand why they would travel all the way to Toledo, which is not a bad town, with all their equipment when there are several other towns in the same state.
You are correct. The two issues are very different. One is a free speech issue where hypocrites only want themselves to have the freedom. The second is a waste of money for an exercise which, if it needs doing, may be done much closer to home.
Good. This helps foil Bush’s slow creep towards martial law.
Let’s hope the elections go off as planned.
With our millitary having more missions within civilian areas. I think the battlefields are moving towards urban warefare. Unless we plan to build a city just for training. Using a town like Toledo will be a option. I bet too if Stalone wanted to do a war epic in Toledo the Mayor would have no problem with that.
You can be against a war all you want. Don’t screw with our men and woman in uniform mayor!
Yeah right. Speaking of foil, how is your tinfoil hat fitting.
This isn’t the same as Berkeley.
“I thought $Millions$ have been spent on virtual reality simulations to give this experience?”
There is no substitute for a live training exercise.
This is just another example of how much certain groups actually support the troops. They don’t want to get labeled as soldier haters, to be an example of what happened during Vietnam, but they also revile not only what we do, but the fact that, as an all-volunteer force, we chose to do it.
As to why they went to Toledo, perhaps it was to train them on assaulting unfamiliar ground? The primary task of the Marine Corps is to establish a beachhead, so it would make sense to change venues as often as possible.
“Good. This helps foil Bush’s slow creep towards martial law.
Let’s hope the elections go off as planned.”
Nice interpretation.
I can sympathize with the Marines because the training would probably help on the battlefield and it may very well help save lives, but I think the mayor’s in the right here. It’s his call as the elected head of the city, not the police department’s. He wasn’t given adequate warning, he was concerned that the activities could be disruptive to the community (roads, businesses, facilities), and the police chief pretty clearly exceeded his authority and didn’t go through the proper channels when he hacked off. Basically the mayor was doing his job and was looking out for the people he’s elected to look out for, which doesn’t include a Marine unit from another state. If the people are unhappy with the decision, they’ll take care of it in the next mayoral election.
For the people who rant about how it’s “disrespect” to the troops for cities not to allow them to train there, I think they also need to keep in mind that the military in our country is pledged to uphold a free society and the soldiers/Marines/airmen/sailors are servants of the public, not the other way around. Some cities may be able to make accommodations for military exercises, some may not, and it may not have anything to do with an “anti-military” attitude when they say no…but it is not the military’s prerogative to train wherever they wish, nor is such access owed to them.
That said, I hope that the Marines are able to find somewhere that’s willing to give them the assistance they need because I’m all for helping minimize casualties on the battlefield. I’m just not for trampling over everyone’s freedoms to do it…that goes against the Constitution every servicemember swore an oath to uphold.
I’ve lived near Toledo long enough to know that Mayor ‘Flapping Piehole’ Finkbeiner scares people more than any Marine Training exercise could. This is the same mayor that rips surrounding communities for ‘poaching’ businesses, yet treats the community with an arrogance yet unmatched…
In this scenario, Carty Finkbeiner is behaving ‘normally.’ ‘Normal’ for Carty is a Level 11 NutCase to you and I. The Toledo Administration knew well in advance of the Training Session, it was very well-planned to use empty buildings downtown. And downtown Toledo is pretty much a ghost-town in the afternoon. The story goes back further in that Carty doesn’t like military training downtown–he had a major, vein-popping, smoke-filled rant with a former administrator of a past training session. It’s a power thing with Mayor Windbag, and he’s got the personality and anger management skills of a 2 year old with a diaper full of sh@#.
Others have referred to his abilities to see the big picture as Mayor “Ready, Fire, Aim,” and he behaves with no regard for long-term consequences. The city and citizens have apologized for his stupidity over the years–this is just another embarrassing example.
The Mayor said in a state of the city speech today “If anyone thinks that I don’t love this country or I don’t love the military then they’re a bunch of BABOONS!”
Hey Mayor!
OH! OH! AH! AH! OH! OH! AH! AH!
This is a states rights issue. If we don’t have states rights we don’t have a USA, we might as well be Russia.
The military has entire fake towns built to train in, they don’t need to be running around in real towns….they might get shot by a citizen who doesn’t know whats going on.