|
CBS News – February 7, 2008:
|
The woman, who spent a day behind bars, was strip-searched and forced to sign a false confession before being released, the newspaper said. The Times declined to publish her name at her request.
She sat with a male colleague in the Starbucks’ family area, the only place women are allowed to sit with men.
“Some men came up to us with very long beards and white dresses. They asked ‘Why are you here together?’ I explained about the power being out in our office. They got very angry and told me what I was doing was a great sin,” she told the Times.
A U.S. official told The Times that it was being treated as “an internal Saudi matter” and refused to comment on her case.
# 26 pjakobs
I agree – the use of force mandates they will use force in kind as best they can.
Exactly! The image of Uncle Sam been turned into a big bully. The US should be concerned with how they are viewed by other countries. Is this Americans arrogance not being concerned with how the US is viewed?
I remember growing up thinking the policeman is like my big brother who is looking out for me and someone who is happy to help me. How is that image with children today?
I would rather have the US be seen as the big brother policeman than the cop with the hand on the TAZER.
“They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
– BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
Cheers
#30 Ah_Yea said – “Awesome! Awesome! I really wish I was there!”
Yes, you have to try to be here during Chinese New Year – its a fireworks display on steroids!
Glad you liked the vid! 🙂
Cheers
#31–Tihz==thanks for your post. Without some special insight/knowledge beyond our own personal experience, I think the answer must always be “who knows?”
My personal experience all around the world has been that people are pretty much the same==but was that only ME being the same?
China probably isn’t getting bombed right now because they don’t have troops stationed all over the world. I laugh at the propaganda that “The USA is not an Empire==and all the dribble that flows after that statement to qualify it.
I don’t think anyone is going to help Iraq on its merits in a vacuum, much less to the benefit of the GOUSA====how much “aid” have the Palestinians gotten?
There is one appreciation for people as individuals, and a whole different one for those grouped in a society. I would post more but I am reminded of the caution of Ralph Waldo Emerson: “People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character.” I don’t think I’m that bad, no matter how low my opinion!
Where’s the respect for other cultures and religions!?!?! Their laws are no better or worse than ours, who are we to critisize?
Respect for other cultures and their social customs!? Don’t expect to find much of that antiquated notion here. Hey, we’re Americans. 😉
#1, CIA operatives crashed planes into US targets on 9/11, I think Bush knew exactly what he was doing.
Dude, what are you smokin’, and how do I score some?
TIHZ_HO. the quote “Its better to have them inside pissing out than outside pissing in!” was from Lyndon Johnson concerning J. Edgar Hoover.
I am still left wondering about some things you mentioned. To me it is absolutely apparent that Muslim countries such as Malaysia limit personal freedom. Which country allows more freedom of religion, or the freedom to not practice religion, America or Malaysia? Which country allows marriage between a Christian or Muslim, America or Malaysia?
I believe countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia are powderkegs ready to go off. This is why we don’t hear more about these countries helping in any way whatsoever against radical Islam. It’s simply because if they did, the radicals within their own countries would start a civil war.
Celebrating New Years in Shanghai or Beijing is on my short “To Do” list!
By the way, I don’t see ‘“Evangelical Southern Baptists” en masse’ committing the types of atrocities that radial Islamist commit every day.
About Malaysia:
“Though predominantly Muslim, Malaysia enjoys a variety of minority faiths, adding to its cultural mix. However, justas in many other Muslim countries, extremist groups have emerged to create problems for Christians, this time as a reaction to the US’s attacks on Afghanistan.
The primary targets have been churches, with a number of incidents of burning and bombing cited since Sept. 11, 2001. Police believe members of the Malaysian Mujahideen Group (Kumpulan Militan Malaysia) are responsible for at least some of the incidents. Violence is nothing new to the KMM, whose members were report-edly trained in Afghanistan. They have been previously accused of a series of crimes, including the bombing of a church and a Hindu temple.
Many militant Islamic groups are linking up with separatists in the south of the country. It is believed that militant Islam in Malaysia is influenced by extremist groups in surrounding nations such as Indonesia’s Laskar Jihad.
Fears of growing Islamic extremism are shared by neighboring countries like Singapore, Indonesia and the Philippines. Using religion to ignite hatred, the growing Islamic militants could potentially destabilize the whole region.”
I don’t see Southern Baptist doing this, do you?
#38 Ah_yea I’m Losing track of all these posts!!! 🙂 we should all get together on Skype…hey…!
I have some very good friends in KL, Malaysia and before the first time I went there I thought the same thing…it isn’t! Granted I have only been around KL but I have heard that a province up north is more conservative. What personal freedoms are restricted? Seems one is free to do more in Malaysia and Indonesia than in the US especially the bible belt.
Muslims are very firm on their stance regarding alcohol – both Malaysia and Indonesia are more relaxed about it than the US even though Wine is a cornerstone of Christian faith – Jesus’ blood (good thing they didn’t drive back then…whats you blood alcohol level …100%? Sheeeeit!) His first “miricle” water to wine…actually he ducked out to the 7/11.
I can’t say about Malaysia as I only visited there but from my understanding there isnt too many hassles unless you have confirmed you are Muslim and then want to quit – that’s the one way street.
Indonesia doesn’t seem to bothered by it and freedom of religion is guarantee by law – same as Malaysia too I think although in Malaysia all native born or ethnic Malaysians are assumed to be a Muslim unless you confirm you aren’t.
Both however the non Muslim must convert to Islam by civil law. From what I understand in KL no one bothers too much about it – though I am not sure.
Indonesia is more relaxed about it as it is not law. I have friends there who are mixed and never worried about it. My impression that I got is love of the family takes priority. I am sure there is friction by this but nothing I have ever seen. There was a Church in Jakarta that was set on fire by some radicals, right behind where I worked. Everyone, Muslims and Christians were fighting to put out the fire. Afterwards the community helped the Church rebuild. BTW I was there during the riots – it was bad but not “CNN” bad. I was out and about in Jakarta about one week after it had started.
Not from what I can see. I asked and was told many times by Indonesian Muslims that they are saddened and angry about what these radical Muslims are doing. However a good Muslim cannot criticize another Muslim as that is what Allah shall do and they cannot presume to be Allah. Makes sense, Christians are meant to do that as well. Those without sin cast the first stone (Mom you really piss me off – Jesus), turn the other cheek et al.
I do understand why the “We are at war” concept from all the terrorist attacks you listed. However the governments use of the “We are at war” cry is self serving and counter productive for American life.
“Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
-George Washington
True then and very true today.
#39 By the way, I don’t see ‘“Evangelical Southern Baptists” en masse’ committing the types of atrocities that radial Islamist commit every day.
How do you define atrocities? There is a line here between Political and Religious motivation! Many if not most terrorist attacks are faction power struggles and use Islam as a tool. Remove Islam something else would be used.
What about religious atrocities then? Well aside from the humor in this (unless you are evangelical) this is some scary stuff and not so uncommon. How many people die from untreated treatable diseases just because some guy who cant sing pushed them over with the power of Jesus.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=15u6fHkICxc
A leader of a country might attack another country because god told him too – this is also an atrocity, as not everyone shares that conviction, yet they have been forced to kill and be killed. Even if everyone did share that conviction is it right to do so?? NO! The other side also has their religious conviction and god “tells” them the same thing! German soldiers praying to god to kill Allied soldiers who are also praying to god to kill Germans soldiers! WTF?!
“God told me to invade Iraq” Bush tells Palestinian ministers – BBC
Bush believes he was called by God to lead the nation at this time, says Commerce Secretary Don Evans, a close friend who talks with Bush every day.
“He knows that we’re all here to serve a calling greater than self,” Evans says. “That’s what he’s committed his life to do. He (Bush) understands that he is the one person in the country, in this case really the one person in the world, who has a responsibility to protect and defend freedom.” – USA Today
Bush is right and Ahmadinejad (Iran) is wrong? Both have god in their ear so one can easily say Ahmadinejad is right and Bush is wrong.
How sad how Ahmadinejad was treated when he visited the US recently – not very Christian, right? That will really win over Ahmadinejad.
If Bush visited Iran and they did the same imagine the headlines in the US! See my point?
This is already too long… It would be great if we all could sit down with a beer and do this, and solve the worlds problems. 🙂
Cheers
Further, she broke no law. The article states that the area she sat in is the area women are permitted to sit with men.
Just because women can sit in that area, doesn’t me that they can necessarily sit hanging out in public with men who are not their husbands.
Great comments, TIHZ_HO!
I Very Much appreciate your insights! I don’t mean to be a hard-ass. It’s all too rare that I find someone who can debate a point and not take it personally. That – and your intelligent and well thought out responses – are why I vastly appreciate your point of view.
I have learned a lot. I have very much enjoyed this discussion. I actually feel much better as well.
I think we are on the same page about America promoting culture over military solutions. I am of the opinion that a graceful, organized withdrawal from the Middle East would be the best policy. It’s better to make friends than force someone to be your friend…
That said, I do hope that these few radicals decide not to provoke the US. Even though I can see the viewpoint that “good Muslim cannot criticize another Muslim as that is what Allah shall do”, that still leaves others to deal with these radicals.
What this really amounts to is “This is your problem, not mine”.
Hopefull the concept of the “Awakening Counsels” will take hold all over the Islamic world.
LOL Now, if Bush said anything in her defense, the knee jerkers would be screaming the other way.
Yes, I think the base problem is Arabic culture, and it’s what Islam is based on. The Bible said something about building houses on sand, well, Islam is built on sand thieves. Everything is negotiable, everything is relevant, everything is “what you can get away with”. Islam has regressed to about the 7th Century.
Arresting a female for sitting with a male co-worker in public place? How draconian. But enough about every gym changeroom in America.
RBG
The United States is not a country I would hold up as a good example of personal freedoms.
#42 Ah_yea
Thanks I enjoyed the discussion as well! We both should be running the place instead of discussing it! 😉 😆
#45 Ascii King
Sadly I would agree. Oddly enough from my viewpoint China has more than the US.
Cheers
I was just thinking about this story…
I’ll bet there is a more to this story than what it seems. I am not defending the Saudis however…
Being American she might have given the Saudi Moral police just a little more lip than they are used to.
In the reported story they asked her what she was doing sitting there – she explained, and when they said its a sin what did she do? Did she get on her American high horse, or did she say “Oh, I am so sorry – please excuse me, I meant no offense” and sat somewhere else?
I’ll let you guess what she did! LOL!
Perhaps if she said “sorry I meant no offense” we would not be here debating this story.
Cheers
47. TIHZ_HO
Ha. Dream on. I once got grabbed by their police just for, apparently, looking… looking inadvertently in the direction of a shop window during prayer time.
But the same sort of thing happens in North America. We can have 200 thick volumes of obscure laws and then claim “ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
RBG
#48 OK I’ve never been there but I do try to look at both sides since objective reporting is something else to dream about as well!
Cheers
Prince Bandar’s wife gave $100,000 to one of the 9/11 hijackers, yet Dubya still invites him over to his ranch for bloody marys and brush clearing.
“We have found no evidence that Saudi Princess Haifa al Faisal provided any funds to the conspiracy, either directly or indirectly.”
9/11 Commission Report, p. 498
Yes lets believe the 9/11 commission report, sponsored by the government. Why would they lie to us? They have such a great record of honesty towards the american people.
http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/bush_abdullah.jpg