Click on the picture above to see a photo slideshow done by the New York Times about a female circumcision ceremony. The picture above shows female circumcisers and their attendants waiting in an elementary-school classroom, where they do their work.
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Barbarians. What country is this? We should invade them to liberate these people from this ancient torture ceremony.
Israel.
Keep in mind that this something that happens in the muslim world all over. Its a part of the culture, and despicable. This is not Israel, at least not the Jewish part.
No not Israel you anti-Semite.
Don’t think it is an Arab place as they don’t give access to technology like incandescent light bulbs to their women folk.
Don’t think its Africa as they can’t afford lightbulbs and female circumcision takes place at near teens?
I’ll vote for some place in Indonesia, the land with the largest Muslim population?
All looks very voluntary to me?==who can be against this free practice of religious faith?
Yeh yeh more anti-muslim stuff etc and I am not an anti-Semite in any way.
I am anti Irsael, I think it was a blatant invasion of a country called Palestine.
But I am not anti-Jewish in anyway and I believe that everyone has the right to their own religion and beliefs and they are no less of a person whatever they’re religion.
I also believe that I have the right to state my own opinion of where the images were taken, which is still, Israel, without being accused of discrimination.
Well, eaze–a person, like an opinion, is only worth the facts upon which he/it is based.
On what facts do you rely to suppose this slide show is from Israel? Silence will be seen as an admission that you are a dolt. Instead, you have to post and prove it.
A sick practice, destroying womens’ external reproductive organs so that they cannot enjoy sex. Where in the Koran is this? I doubt it’s there, yet it’s treated as a religious practice.
Male circumcision is bad enough (fortunately my parents were not brainwashed into slicing me up as a baby), female circumcision is just barbaric!
Bobbo, don’t get your panties up in such a bunch. It sure doesn’t take much to get a rise out of some people, which I think was possibly the reason for eaze’s post.
Now, back to the anti any other group discussion as long as Israel is off the table.
It is absolutely disgusting, but has nothing to do with islam. And no it does not happen all over the arab world it happens mainly in africa and asia. Also stop comparing all arab places to each other in fact each is a very different place. They are not all Saudi Arabia/Kuwait. I realize that is all you see on tv but seriouslly people use your brains.
Yes–trolling and pimping is always possible, but so is stupidity==so I’m game while the motives are unclear.
Why should Israel ever be off any table? I want to evaluate the evidence BEFORE my prejudices set in.
Bobbo said – “I’ll vote for some place in Indonesia, the land with the largest Muslim population?”
Very unlikely – I lived in Indonesia for almost 7 years and this is not something they would do. I have the greatest respect for Indonesians they are a wonderful people. I was there for a visit right after one of the bombings and Americans were fearful to go to any Muslim country. Walking along the street I had the usual Hello Mister and bright smiles – I would answer back Apa kabar (Whats news – like a hello) They would smile even more!
Some info on female circumcision as it is not what you think it is In general terms, the main indications for circumcision are: (1) functional need – lack of ability to have a climax or ability to have one only with considerable difficulty, (2) an anatomic or mechanical factor that needs correction.
http://tinyurl.com/4crlo
Female Genital Mutilation is what you are after…The mildest form of FGM, clitoridectomy, is the removal of all or part of the clitoris preventing or reducing sexual pleasure.
http://tinyurl.com/23fhvf
“This is most often performed in Middle Eastern and North African countries. In both of the African nations of Somalia and Djibouti, 98% of women have had this procedure.”
There you go.
Cheers
So–odds are huh? Well, its nice to hear that the majority of Muslims in Indonesia are free from this absurdity.
Oh, speaking of absurdity====ease?
“Barbarians. What country is this? We should invade them…”
Hilarious.
I say DU needs an “Flamingly Idiotic Statement of the Day” award.
Today’s top contender so far:
“It is absolutely disgusting, but has nothing to do with islam.”
No more to do with Islam than High Mass has to do with the Catholic Church.
It is nothing more than a trivial technicality to claim that because it is not an accepted practice by the majority of Muslims and is denounced and / or disavowed by most mainstream scholars of Islamic law, that it “has nothing to do with Islam.” The people who practice it say it is.
It may be a distinct minority within Islam, and they may very well be completely in error in their claims to be following Islamic principles, but it’s still done by Muslims who proclaim it to be a Muslim practice, and it’s done to Muslims in Muslim cultures. That makes it, as a matter of fact and reality, mistaken or not, approved by the majority or not, still an Islamic practice.
So, female genital mutilation is universally practiced and performed by and on women of all religions all over the world, right?
I suppose by your “logic” that male circumcision, since it is widely performed by non-Jews on non-Jews, therefore has “nothing to do with Judaism,”, right?
It’ll take a stunningly dumbass statement to top that one – but the day’s still young, I suppose…
Thinking about more about these pictures may be from Malaysia or Indonesia as they do practice type 1 circumcision. Apparently there are four types of female circumcision with Type 1 being only the removal of the clitoris hood but not the clitoris itself.
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/9pam.pdf
By the way Malaysia has two legal systems Civil and Federal Law and Sharia Law for all things pertaining to Islam. Its a bit of a legal mess as all ethnic Malays are considered Muslim while the constitution guarantees religious freedom.
Cheers
the Three-Headed Cat, I don’t undestand why you are so upset by my comment, what I meant was no where in the scripture of the religion of islam is female circumcision ever mentioned.You yourself said its not accepted by a majority of muslims, saying that it is a muslim practice is like saying all christians believe in the rapture, or all christians are young earth creationinsts. I was just making a point about lumping many varied cultures together under the banner of “Muslim” or “Arab”.
Sorry, I forgot to mention that many of the people who practice female circumcision in africa are not infact muslim (ie. They do not identify themselves as muslim). Anyway all I am saying is it is a cultural thing not a religious thing, and no there is no unified muslim culture.
If you do an ordinary google search it turns out that the photo and story are from Indonesia
What does it have to do with Israel?
The article and the photos are from Indonesia not Israel
Get it – Mr or Ms left wing
What are you doing in Anerica ?
Was it in your culture of origin’s holy books for 2000 years that you were coming home to North America
Give the aboriginals back their lands and go home
Or perhaps those aboriginals should go back to Mongolia
The whole conflict has been a horrendous waste of time and vast sums of money that could of been spent tremendously better elsewhere
Its all about once moslem land it can never go back. No matter what cost – human or money , period. So much for the left wing rant ” End the Occupation”. In case you have not realized it the whole world is “occupied”
Nice thread going here.
So–#19==how do you google a plain photo except very much by hit or miss?–I am wondering if there is a search method I am missing?
#15–3HC==I was going to say BRAVO for drawing the point into clear focus==I was as usual kinda just taking every post at face value as I do tend to trust everyone’s honest contribution but THEN I read Burnsides responses (#17 & 18) and now I’m just confused. Let me check.
Burnside did say mutilation was not an islamic trait as subsequently evidenced by the fact that it is not in scripture and not practiced by the majority. But 3HC says if the majority (if not all) of those doing an act profess a certain religion, then we can only honor their declarations.
Burnside==seems to me you are all about the majority oppressing the minority. How can you ignore the deeply held belief of a minority group within a larger majority? Seems dishonest some how.
Another barbaric ritual based upon old superstitions. As bad as poison drinking snake handlers in the USA south. As a people the sooner we free ourselves from this god crap, the sooner humanity becomes human.
Typicaly when done in Indonesia, it is “ritual circumcison”, when a pin prick draws a drop of blood. No actual cutting is done. I doubt those pictures were from Indonesia.
#23–I am properly chastised and educated. Thanks.
I was under the impression the words had to be in the title of the picture, but obviously the pics are linked to a larger data base of descriptors.
Gosh, another project==google for pics.
http://tinyurl.com/3yfu8q
bobbo, just do an ordinary google search of the title, check responses for the same photos.
It is Indonesia. Bandung.
[Please use TinyUrl.com for overly long URLs. – ed.]
#26 Bandung is just south of Jakarta – Been there a few times, great place for jeans, artists and rock musicians!
I do know the Indonesian people quite well and I would be surprised to hear they were actually doing more than a ritual.
Ok…from the article “Female circumcision in Indonesia is reported to be less extreme than the kind practiced in other parts of the globe”
“Studies have shown that in some parts of Indonesia, female circumcision is more ritualistic — a rite of passage meant to purify the genitals and bestow gender identity on a female child — with a practitioner rubbing turmeric on the genitals or pricking the clitoris once with a needle to draw a symbolic drop of blood.”
There you go…
Cheers
Bobbo, maybe I was not very clear in my argument. I am not denying that there is a muslim minority that practice this. However I was saying it is not part of the official religion and it certainly did not start with islam, rather people in certain areas where practicing it before islam and just worked it into their new beliefe system. This is my sole point that this is an act that is practiced along cultural lines not religious ones.
I also agree #21 as I am actually an atheist.
Oh I forgot to mention – Only a percentage of Indonesian Muslims girls would have this done anyway as it would only be the more devout Muslims such as those who are wearing the Habib on their head. A walk down the street will show you that its not as many as you would think.
Cheers
#28–fair enough. You could have used much different words to get that limited idea across.
But, in fact, you are still mostly wrong. The “culture” at play is in fact religious belief. True==not the express dogma of the majority, but still mostly confined to muslims of one stripe or another.
An example is this interesting read from the NYT:
http://tinyurl.com/2ywxm8 and they start out just as you do with religious leaders condemning the practice but only those of the faith committing the act.
Just an example of an institution wanting to be as PR as possible–like the Mormons claiming they have always respected black people and such.
In good faith then–does religion have NOTHING to do with this practice, or actually SOMETHING to do with it?
“As a people the sooner we free ourselves from this god crap, the sooner humanity becomes human.”
All animals, including humans, have deplorable practices. You’d think our superior intelligence would eliminate cruelty and superstition. female circumcision is brutal, but so is chasing down an animal and shooting an arrow or bullet into it with pleasure. Unfortunately religion and other superstitions consider 2000 year old practices as modern and progressive, but the human nature in some people just doesn’t include much compassion either.
I wonder if a parent were to teach a child that the earth was a marble in a giant game of ringer, would society openly object or would that parent be allowed, without interference, to mold their child with that belief?
As soon as NOW gets worked up about this we’ll do something.
Oh, wait…