For more than 20 years, people have been prohibited from openly carrying firearms in most of America’s national parks. Rangers argue that the rule cuts down on the potential hazards to wildlife as well as to visitors in the congested parks. But now, 47 senators have signed on to a letter to the Interior Department requesting an end to the ban on firearms. Initiated by Idaho Sen. Mike Crapo, the letters other signatories include Montana’s two Democratic senators — Max Baucus, who is up for re-election, and Jon Tester — as well as the entire delegations of Wyoming and Idaho.
Technically, you can drive through a national park with a firearm, as long as it’s not loaded and not readily accessible in order to prevent poaching and accidental shootings. But now the senators want the law loosened to allow Winchester-toting, pistol-packin’ visitors to enjoy the national park, without feeling as if they were somehow engaging in an illegal act. The change in the regulations would most immediately benefit pro gun-rights constituents who live near Yellowstone, Glacier and Grand Teton national parks, allowing them not only to bring in their weapons but display them as openly as they would outside the parks.
I have mixed feelings on this. I have spent much time in our National Parks, Yellowstone and the Tetons are two of my favorite camping destinations. There are special dangers, in particular bears and mountain lion, in these two parks, so I can see the practicality of this action. However, I am also in favor of firearms training for anyone wanting to possess or conceal carry firearms in public access areas.
I support our right to arm bears. If they get the guns I’ll be OK with it. As it is, these animals have so little space where they are truly safe from humans that I have trouble with this.
With regard to the issue of wild animals in the park being a danger to humans, I should probably add a bit about the parks in Botswana.
Even the rangers are not allowed to carry guns there. In fact, they can’t even have BB guns in the open dining areas to stop the vervet monkeys from stealing the food.
And, there are lions there, not the biggest of the small cats, the cougar, but real Panthera Leo. There are also leopards, cheetahs, hyenas, wild dogs, buffalo, elephants, and especially hippos (the number one non-human killer of humans in Africa).
When you go to the camps in Africa, they give you an air horn for emergency. I was never really sure on any of our trips what the guides would do if we blew the horn. I just know that they did explain at the start of the trip that a lion outside your tent is not an emergency.
What is an emergency? A lion inside your tent.
So, if they can do this in Africa and not lose an unreasonable number of tourists, we can probably be OK with the animals we have left on our continent.
Not having read this proposed law, I’d have to say firearms should only be permitted to be “openly displayed” in the camper, tent or whatever qualifies as a persons’ camping domicile. You walk in their territory..you takes your chances..
Why not stop pussyfooting around – there’s only one reason to offer up this bill. Some of our sleazy Senators want to guarantee campaign funds from the NRA and gun manufacturers.
That’s all.
Hopefully this will spread out from there, as there have been a large number of coyote / co-dog attacks in our parks here in the Ohio Valley, and yet we are not allowed to carry an appropriate weapon into the parks. A lot of people are, frankly, breaking the rules, as the fine is far less than the cost of stitches and rabies shots. I am of the opinion that rules which put people in danger or heavily inconvenience them and are often ignored for that reason are a big reason why no one respects the law anymore, from the bottom to the top.
As for the second point, I am in complete agreement. I believe that removing firearms and archery training from the schools was a very foolish decision that has probably cost a lot of lives over the past thirty years. Training and respect for the weapons of the age should be considered life saving education, but like many vital subjects, such as economics and history, we are raising a whole generation of ignoramuses. I know that my parents and grandparents generations were certainly not harmed by weapons training at a young age. Widespread ignorance might be good for the authorities and the credit agencies, but it is terrible for our society.
With some proper training and a license it would be OK. Especially in a wilderness area where the only ‘ help’ is nonexistent. Let’s face it you are nothing but a ‘meat popsicle’ to some of the wildlife… Let alone some of the human crazies out there.
Hummmmh….How about a law allowing guns in the San Francisco Zoo?
The first time I have trouble with the wildlife is the last time that I’ll be unarmed. End of story. Unlike most, I actually travel in the back country. There was a reason wolves and bears were killed. They are predators and humans are a (not primary) source of food, either as a meal or a vendor.
My fondest wish is for a granola munching tree hugger to have a up close and personal visit with a black bear.
#6, Dave,
Good point. Why stop there? Why not open guns in Washington DC? Oh, say, in front of the White House or along the National Mall, or even inside Congress.
The bigger question, is why? If you are afraid of the wild life (Norman J McSweyn ) then stay away from those areas or stay out of the Parks all together. The National Parks were set up for every American to enjoy nature as it was intended. They were not set up as your private little hunting grounds.
Hey Mr. Catshit,
Grow up!
Go for a walk sometime. When is the last time you took a LONG walk. Like more than the time you take to get to your car?
#8 – Catshit,
I’m with you!!
For #4, 5, 7, & 9 – I think you guys need to grow up. I’ve likely spent more time around more dangerous wildlife than any of you. If you’re such a bunch of fearful little pusillanimous piss ants, stay out of the woods. In fact, don’t leave your living room.
Here’s a bit of information for all of you morans that are afraid of a walk in the park.
You’re more likely to get killed in your car driving to your local mall than you are to be killed by a wild animal on a many hours long walk in even the most remote park in the country.
Learn statistics. If you’re going to live your lives so fearfully, you may as well be afraid of the real dangers we face, like getting hit by a bus while crossing the street.
Hey Misanthropic Scott,
Where did you spend your time with dangerous wildlife? Were they in cages?? Been out in the woods walking lately?? How many days? Overnight?
You might want to heed Benjamin Disraeli:
“There are lies, damnable lies and statistics”
FYI: I walked 700+ miles of the Appalachian trail solo. Seen bear, up close! Moose, up close! Fox, up close! Coyote, up close! Haven’t had any trouble YET!
What does the likelihood of being in a deadly car wreck have to do with being able to carry a gun in a national park?
If you are attacked and you are unarmed, you’re probably going to die or be severely disfigured. If you are armed you have a good chance of survival.
Whats the big fuss about? Do people tend to get into shootouts on backpacking trips? Is poaching a serious problem in N. America?
I’m a US Army vet and a hiker. I’ve never felt the need to have a weapon in a national park. I’m with Catshit and Scott. If you’re that scared of the wildlife in a national park, don’t go there. Incidentally, I’d guess the biggest threat in national parks are two legged. The law enforcement rangers (to control people) are getting larger in number, but animal control probably isn’t except where people have been feeding bears.
Read a couple of my travel blogs. I’ve spent time in Africa in open vehicles with big cats within a single leap.
Rwanda and Tanzania I was within arms length of both mountain gorillas and chimps, respectively, on foot, again with no weapons.
In the Canadian arctic when we were looking for wolf puppies, we saw an adult. With no place to hide on the tundra (to avoid tipping off the wolf who might move the puppies) we sat on the tundra in the open.
The wolf spotted us, of course. As he came close to check us out, our guide said, “I don’t know what to do. Should I get the pepper spray?” I replied, “No. Feed me to him. I’ll die happy!” and meant it. Though, I must confess, the wolf did not appear to be threatening to me.
I’ve also been in a vehicle and a boat, both open, both too small to be really safe, while being charged by an elephant and a hippo respectively. The ele was particularly scary.
My wife and I have also spent some time in Belize walking at night with a flashlight and no weapons and no guide looking for jaguar and puma. Unfortunately, no luck.
That enough samples?
For the most part, we’re not on the menu. Animals have far more to fear from us than we do from them. And, we have far more to fear from each other than we do from the animals. I often get nervous in third world cities. That’s a real risk.
The biggest risk in nearly every country not in the middle of an active war or in severe civil strife, is still automobile accident. Regardless though, our biggest risk is us.
Oh and one more thing, Norman, cool!! I’m not quite as adventurous with respect to camping as you. Did you feel the need of a gun? For self-defense? From animals other than humans?
#12 – ,
Is poaching a serious problem in N. America?
Sort of. At the moment, it is mostly when protected animals leave the safety of the park that they are killed, especially wolves.
No one I know has ever been killed by a co-dog (nasty they may be, but a croc or tiger they are not), but a good friend of mine lost some blood and money to the little beasts, and the result of the situation is that a lot of people don’t go to the parks, and this is a shame. Personally, I just carry a bright light and my knowledge of animal behavior to keep me safe, and that has proven effective in my encounters with dangerous wildlife, but I also know that few people are cool headed enough to stand ones ground and make funny noises while armed only with a flashlight. I trust my fellow man to carry weaponry, even if I don’t, for their safety as well as mine. In the case of carrying, I can’t see any alternative to trusting my fellow man besides paranoia, and that is bad for my inner peace. There will always be guns, and people with guns, and the line of thinking that leads people to believe that forbiddance equals absence strikes me as a sort of dangerous delusion, an illusory sense of safety that makes easy victims of people.
Senator Crapo? So often the jokes write themselves!
I don’t worry about the wild life, I worry about the criminals starting to hang out in the national parks because of all the idiot city people.
May I take it those who would like to require training before anyone can carry a gun are in favor of reopening the shooting ranges inside the school basements so people can get that training?
You don’t need a gun to protect yourself, what you need is a hot pepper spray. I read somewhere that cayenne pepper spray stop the grizzly bear.
About the gun control.The criminal feel comfortable and powerful around people who don’t have gun.Hear lot of negative story how gun kill good people but there also positive story how gun save people.Like the Colorado lady who stop the guy with lot of arms from killing more people.Criminal can broke the law getting the gun but the good people obey the law concerning ban gun.
Perhaps someone should read the Second Amendment. NO crime is committed unless a human being is hurt. I always carry a 45 automatic, if I ever need to use it there will be no real charges. No real law requires anyone to have a “license”. Before crossing the bar in any courtroom, inform the judge that the proceedings will be conducted under common law.
#16. Scott, you live in the city right, and so your tourists forays make you an expert, how? Have you lost pets or livestock to predators, or been confronted in the wild? Until you live it, 365 days a year, maybe the tourist experience doesn’t matter so much. Just because you got lucky, doesn’t make you smart.
A big part of this that I haven’t hear mentioned at all is Concealed weapon permits. To get one of these you have to concede to be poked prodded and searched in places you didn’t even know you had then background checked including any potential chance of metal issues then you have to get people to vouch for you that you are who you say you are and that you are indeed sane. Then and only then will they give you one. In the history of these permits there has never been a person who has been granted a permit that has been convicted of committing a violent crime. These same people are not permitted to carry in a National Park even if that park resides within their own state. In addition off duty police will also be permitted to cary in a park.
“Perhaps someone should read the Second Amendment.”
“Perhaps someone should read the Second Amendment.”
I have, man, I have!! And you’re right!
We have to form well-regulated
anti-Moose (and pesky little squirrel)
militias as soon as possible!
Apparently Dick Cheney feels hampered, being only able to shoot lawyers on isolated Texas ranches. Yellowstone, the new GOP hunting ground. Anyone up for a Most Dangerous Game?
“When Gun Bans Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Ban Guns.” There, I said it and I’m proud!
I was going to say something about how they need to be able to carry guns just in case because shit happens….but seriously the risk is waaaaaaaaay lower than walking down the street in any major city.
For all of you who have “never felt the need”, it is much better to have a gun and not need one, than to not have a gun and need one.
The NRA is a bunch of nutters. Carrying a gun is a massive responsibility and most people just aren’t up to it. How many of us could actually shoot a bear charging from 20 feet without a m16 on full auto.
#31 So is driving a car. Is the AAA a bunch of nutters as well.