A Turkish lawyer is taking legal action against Inter Milan, the Italian football team, for wearing a strip with “Crusader-style” red crosses that he alleges is ”offensive to Muslim sensibilities”.
Baris Kaska, a lawyer in Izmir who specialises in European law, said that he had lodged a complaint in a local court against Inter Milan, which last month played the Istanbul team Fenerbahce in a Champions League match at the San Siro stadium in Milan. The Inter players wore a new strip – a white shirt with a giant red cross on it – marking the club’s centenary.
Mr Kaska said he was not only seeking damages but was also appealing to Uefa to annul the match, which Inter won 3-0. “That cross only brings one thing to mind – the symbol of the Templar Knights,” he said. “It made me think immediately of the bloody days of the past. While I was watching the game I felt profound grief in my soul.”
Fenerbahce sucked big time. I don’t think lawsuits will change that.
Thanks, Fiver.
Plain yogurt offends me… tastes like chicken.
I dunno… that is awfully close to the historic Crusader garb, and Muslims view “crusade” much as we Westerners view “jihad” i.e. not nice. I may be one of those pesky atheists, but even I think they may have a point in this specific case, though free speech has priority.
Crusades are Christian Jihad. Jihad is Muslim crusades.
Best I can tell, the two are more-or-less the same thing.
Both are seen as sometimes good, by those within the religion, but universally condemned by the other religion.
As a liberal Christian, I really have no use for crusade language.
Ever notice how all the Muslim countries have flags with swords on them?
But that’s not offensive…
#35 – Milo
Ever noticed how Christians made a tool of torture their symbol? If Jesus were alive today and got electrocuted… would his followers make the electric chair their symbol and wear it as jewelry?
And nope, I’m not the first one to say this… 😉
#33: I’m an Atheist too, but I also think that you can’t use things like this as an excuse. This is a tentative “offense” at best that would never had been brought up had the lawyer’s team not lost.
And part of the problem in the middle east is that everyones grudges go back way too far. They’re still fighting over who Mohammed’s fucking successor should be, 1500 years after the fact. There is something inherently wrong with the cultures there that goes deeper than offense over a european soccer uniform, a bunch of cartoons, or what a teacher lets their student name a teddy bear.
And middle eastern terrorism (not to be confused with european, which was primarily communist “revolutionaries”) in itself is the result of not keeping up with western technology and trends, instead the upper class simply hoards 99.99999% of the wealth in the region. Which keeps the people in the 19th century or earlier and, while keeping armed revolt from occurring, also prevents real advances in their ability to fight. This asymmetrical effect then further caused demoralization, leading to armed assaults on public places.
The problem was, that didn’t work in Israel, as everyone there has some kind of weapon. Which is what led to suicide bombing as the primary technique.
The key would be to actually fix how things work there. The problem is that the clergy and the rich would realize that they couldn’t hold the money and power they’d hoarded to the point it was simply How Things Work. Which brings it right back to the problem.
13. Steve S
Why would you write something so ignorant? Aside from unnecessarily inflaming a people you know nothing about, you obviously have no idea that new internet OS fingerprinting services can now personally track you down.
http://tinyurl.com/28jowo
36. Jägermeister. 15 years ago I asked my cousin the pastor that exact question. Yes, Christians would be wearing an electric chair.
RBG
36, Jägermeister:
Yes, so?
#33—How whiny. Muslims love nothing better than to be insulted and offended in the West. Individuals *choose* to be insulted and take advantage of it, filing lawsuits and crying to the media.
I’m reminded of a few years ago when an organization of muslim scholars and clergy demanded an apology for the Crusades, etc…to which I thought, “When you apologize for making war on Spain, on France, storming the gates of Vienna…” For Heaven’s sake this cuts both ways. Act like adults, recognize that history is history. If Western countries chose to be as tearful about things that happened here there wouldn’t be a Middle East, just a few glorified oil pumps. And goats.
I’m going to take out a law suit against god to force the removal of the crescent moon. My great-great-great-great-grandfather was killed by Muslims and I find that symbol offensive
#37, steelcobra,
And part of the problem in the middle east is that everyones [sic] grudges go back way too far. They’re still fighting over who Mohammed’s fucking successor should be, 1500 years after the fact. There is something inherently wrong with the cultures there that goes deeper than offense over a european [sic] soccer uniform, a bunch of cartoons, or what a teacher lets their student name a teddy bear.
Your mistake is in thinking everyone should react exactly the way you do. If you stop to think, 1500 years after Christianity started, they had this thing called the “Inquisition”. Yes, people were burned at the stake for not believing in “God” strongly enough or for questioning the superiority of the Pope. Torture was so common place and brutal those sacrificed in burning pyres looked forward to their death with relief.
Europe fought a long war between those who followed the Pope and those who wanted something a little less indulgent and iconic. You might have heard of the “30 Year War” sometime in your history class. Smaller civil wars and persecution continued on into the 20th century.
And middle eastern terrorism (not to be confused with european [sic], which was primarily communist “revolutionaries”) in itself is the result of not keeping up with western technology and trends, instead the upper class simply hoards 99.99999% of the wealth in the region. Which keeps the people in the 19th century or earlier and, while keeping armed revolt from occurring, also prevents real advances in their ability to fight.
Holy batshit Batman !!! What the eff is that all about ??? They had C4 and AK-47s in the 19th century? They used 40mm mortars with high explosives? And they got all these weapons from some charity organization like Good Will?
Terrorism is mostly the result of asymmetrical warfare. If one side has all the technological advantages, the other side will use whatever advantage it can, often with suicidal results. Evidence the kamikazes during WWII, guerrilla fighting in Viet Nam, FLQ putting bombs in mailboxes, IRA bombing taverns in England, and suicide bombers in Israel. In war, the idea is to win, not play fair.
Almost every revolution has been “communist” in nature. Just read the United States Declaration of Independence.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, …”
#39, Milo,
A chair is a little more difficult to stylize than a simple cross.
#41, Mister Uncle Ben,
Close. If the Moors (in Iberia) were such a concern, the Crusaders chose the wrong end of the Mediterranean to attack.
As impoverished as the nobility was, and they were, there was the sense of adventure that also drove them.
#42, zokah,
Then what will people put on their outhouse doors?
This just in:
http://www.aina.org/news/20071213135825.htm
Politically motivated murder of Assyrian professor Fuat Deniz at a Swedish university. His internationally recognized research into the genocide of Assyrians by the Turks made him the target. Acording to the Swedish Newspaper Aftonbladet: bsnews.com/?source=homepage_refresh one of Turkey’s biggest daily newspapers actively engaged in an aggressive defamation campaign against Deniz. Several of Fuat Deniz’s Turkish colleagues received death threats and have been branded “terrorists” in Turkey.
Your mistake is in thinking everyone should react exactly the way you do. If you stop to think, 1500 years after Christianity started, they had this thing called the “Inquisition”. Yes, people were burned at the stake for not believing in “God” strongly enough or for questioning the superiority of the Pope. Torture was so common place and brutal those sacrificed in burning pyres looked forward to their death with relief.
Yes, I am very aware that Islam is at the same stage of development Christianity was around 1500CE. That does not excuse the barbaric acts and hateful way they treat anyone who doesn’t fit the “norm” within their societies, though.
Just because something is a part of a culture does not make it right. And Christianity is a horrible example of how to do things.
Europe fought a long war between those who followed the Pope and those who wanted something a little less indulgent and iconic. You might have heard of the “30 Year War” sometime in your history class. Smaller civil wars and persecution continued on into the 20th century.
Various wars are always going to happen, regardless of what hippies may tell you. I have no delusions about this. The only way to ever stop it completely is to bring the whole world together as a single nation under an American-styled republic, which at least tries to be even-handed and fair.
Holy batshit Batman !!! What the eff is that all about ??? They had C4 and AK-47s in the 19th century? They used 40mm mortars with high explosives? And they got all these weapons from some charity organization like Good Will?
They sure as hell didn’t design them themselves. 99.999% of all weapons in the middle east (outside Israel, of course) are either made by or designed by Russians.
And with how cheap and easy the Avtomat Kalisnikova in all its variants is to acquire, they might as well have bought them from Good Will.
As for high explosives, Nitroglycerin, TNT, and other non-synthetic compounds were fairly easy to make. 80 years ago. Add to that the fact that Saddam’s country was like an arms depot full of Russian materiel with no guards right after the war, and you have a 19th century culture with 20th century weapons.
Almost every revolution has been “communist” in nature. Just read the United States Declaration of Independence.
I think you have a different definition of communist than most people, then. The words of the constitution are populist, not communist, in response to the idea that a king was somehow “created” better than the people or was divinely mandated to rule. Not that everyone deserves to receive an equal share of everything, regardless of the value of their work.
#47, steelcobra,
The only way to ever stop [wars] completely is to bring the whole world together as a single nation under an American-styled republic, which at least tries to be even-handed and fair.
Holy bat shit !!! Tell me your fucking xenophobic, hate filled, blathering, arrogant, pinhead doesn’t mean what you wrote. Since the US is the only country in the world with this style of of government, the rest of the world should change? Sheeeeet !!!
Canada, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, New Zealand, and many other countries have far better civil rights for their citizens and far less crime. You want them to give all that up to emulate the US? You think they should all become Muslim hating, police states? Cripes !!! Did they get that bullet out of your brain?
The words of the constitution are populist, not communist, in response to the idea that a king was somehow “created” better than the people or was divinely mandated to rule.
So, of all the political revolutions I can think of, every one has been to “throw off” the chains imposed upon them by a class or group that thought they were better. How that makes them communist yet the Americans who revolted for the same reasons were populist is beyond me.
Not that everyone deserves to receive an equal share of everything, regardless of the value of their work.
When those you oppress rise up to take back what you have taken from them, do not be surprised if they also want your insensitive, arrogant, pinhead on the end of a spear.
#45, RBG,
Let me see. You reference three right wing journalists. Ok. So what is the point? They weren’t reporting stories, merely speaking their opinions.
Shall we reference Jerry Falwell, a Christian leader, who formed the Moral Majority and wielded a lot of power in Washington:“9/11 was caused by homosexuals”; or Pat Robertson, another very influential Christian leader, “It would not be so bad to drop an atomic bomb on Iraq”; Ted Haggard, who lead one of the largest congregations in America and founded the National Association of Evangelicals has also suggested Muslims are worth less than Christians.
Three people do not represent the hundreds of millions of Christians and Muslims. Entire groups of people can not be represented by such a small group of no bodies. At least the group I cited had the ear of the President who DOES have a lot of weaponry at his disposal.
#50, RBG,
So, do Fallwell*, Roberson, and Haggard speak for every American or every Christian? Shall we pull some quotes from various Catholics and Popes so everyone may think THEY too represent all Christians?
Do you think Jack Layton speaks for every Canadian? Or Warren Buffet for every American?
They don’t.
As for bin Laden and his misfits, they are outlaws, not religious or even influential leaders.
*We should put him in the past tense.
51: Mr. C. I think you’re/we’re going off track here. I’m not quoting all those radical Muslims because I believe they represent today’s regular Muslims who have a desperate desire to re-conquer Spain.
I quote them as the best evidence I had at the moment that the original Muslim conquest of Spain was a general Muslim goal originating in the Middle East(and was not just a Moorish thing). A goal that still burns alive in the memories & hearts of the radicals I quote who are not from North East Africa.
I was specifically rebutting your #44
“If the Moors (in Iberia) were such a concern, the Crusaders chose the wrong end of the Mediterranean to attack.”
I was indicating why attacking only the Moors was not necessarily the thing to do.
My #45: “You do not spray the flames but rather the base of the fire. On the other hand, maybe the Crusaders were somewhat interested in the polite return of the historically Christian lands of Syria, Anatolia & North Africa.”
A better response would have been to simply point out that, while the Spanish invaders were largely Moors, the whole thing was orchestrated under the direction of the Umayyad Caliphate of Damascus, Al-Walid I.
This well before the expansion of the Muslim Ottoman empire, again from this base area of original Muslim power.
The Crusades in the Middle East had some desired effect, I suppose: “However, the crusaders did manage to weaken Muslim territories preventing them from further expansion into Christendom.” Wikipedia: Muslim History.
Are we friends again, Catshit? May I call you ‘Shit?
RBG
Muslims still hold Europe and the “West” in contempt for the Crusades, a holy war to win back lands perceived to be particularly holy to Christianity. Something that is never mentioned is why all of the middle east, Turkey and all of North Africa is Muslim. The Islamic religion only came into being in the early 7th centry AD at which time, the vast bulk of the lands I mentioned were predominantly Christian (as they were part of either the Western Roman Empire or Byzantium or only very recently had been) with a scattering of other religions (Jews in Judea, Zoroastrians in Persia and so on). What do Muslims think their perpetual warfare of conquest and conversion lasting for the best part of 4 centuries in the initial stages were other than a Crusade of their own?
The Crusades were not clever or big, but I can’t stand hypocrisy and Muslims who complain about them are often the first to overlook their own vicious and brutal jihads both historic and present.