The gunman believed to have killed four people at a megachurch and a missionary training school had been thrown out of the school a few years ago and had been sending it hate mail, police said.
The gunman was identified as Matthew Murray, 24, who was home-schooled in what a friend said was a deeply religious Christian household…
I wouldn’t consider this for posting except for the boring crystal ball brigade commenting at some news websites. Finally, specific info appears.
Colorado Springs police said the “common denominator in both locations” was Youth With a Mission. The training center maintains an office at the 10,000-member church.
“It appears that the suspect had been kicked out of the program three years prior and during the past few weeks had sent different forms of hate mail to the program and-or its director,” police said.
KUSA-TV in Denver reported Monday that Murray posted several rants on a Web site for people who have left evangelical religious groups… Murray wrote, “You Christians brought this on yourselves” and “All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you … as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world.”
The station said Murray’s posts were removed from the site after Sunday’s killings, and that authorities were aware of them and investigating.
An interview with a former roommate at the missionary school revealed the dude was having conversations with the voices in his head. Isn’t that how God always talks to his disciples?
#22 said, “People are dead and all you bigots at “dvorak.org/blog” can think of is “oh boy! another chance to bash Christians!” You should be ashamed.”
Your comment is offensive to people! Only sheeple join mega churches. My only wish was that it should happen to Westboro.
It’s fairly obvious the gunman had mental health issues, the church simply became a focal point for them. It could as easily been his former Amway group at the end of the gun.
I hear it said that he was crazy. He’s a sorry ass sack of shit and it is good that he was killed…
Maybe so.
I doubt it.
Charles Whitman was a pretty normal guy. He had a few minor run ins with authority, but he also was a scoutmaster and was seen by most as a normal guy. You can read plenty about him if you care, but the point is after murdering his mother, wife, and all those people at the clock tower in Austin, an autopsy revealed a substantial tumor growing in his head.
His own suicide notes say that he recently began to have these violent and angry urges, he didn’t know why, and that he wanted to be studied to prevent future tragedies. He suffered from some depression and went once, and only once, to a psychologist, and then abandoned that saying it didn’t help and was hopeless.
Its horrible that these people were killed. It’s equally horrible that Murray committed these acts… but before we all write him off with the easy answer of him being evil, I’d like to know why.
There was no prior conflicts. His departure from the youth program was based on health issues. His hate mail was only a very recent thing. I’m not saying this guy was just like Whitman. I’m saying it is probably more complicated than “he was evil and its good he was shot.”
Obviously, we may never know. But it isn’t good that he was killed. He’s a human being who was likely undergoing something frightening and profound, which led to something horribly tragic.
If this guy were a career criminal with a violent history and just a life long jack ass, I wouldn’t defend him. In fact I don’t “defend” him.
But I am saying there is more to this than an easy answer and there remains the “possibility” that Murray wasn’t even aware of why he was acting like he was.
The very least we can do is admit that its a tragedy for EVERYONE involved and not revel in joy over the death of a stranger…
But then compassion hasn’t been an American value for quite some time…
#33 – You don’t think the combination of the church and home schooling contributed to the mental illness?
Well, huntsman, just exactly what are you claiming?
Q: What do you call the evangelicals shot dead by Murray?
A: a good start!
#6
“I wonder if he’d been reading some liberal blogs to feed his Christian hate.”
There’s more of hate + intolerance inside a Christian Churuch than a soccer game between Argentina against England.
#20
They could if it were legal.
#22
“another chance to bash Christians!” You should be ashamed.”
Considering that EVERY Christian TV channel has at least one or two shows dedicated to mock, ridicule and deem everyone who doesn’t give their church some monetary profit a Satanic cult…
#38 – Angel… You’re the man! 🙂
#34 thanks for the most intelligent comment on this thread. Didn’t know that about Whitman.
The only thing I would like to add is there no way we can prevent these unstable people from getting there hands on lethal weapons? (Omaha, Va Tech, Columbine, the list goes on).
I’m surprised that no one has remarked that this shooting took place at the New Life Church founded by Pastor Ted Haggard. It may not be relevant, but it qualifies as trivia nonetheless.
Whatever happened to Pastor Ted?
#41 – Gary
Well, he’s back to school (I’m sure he’ll be honest from now on… yeah, right…). Interesting blurb about him begging for money to support his family. Begging seems to be a cornerstone in their world.
“Wow” doesn’t quite cover it, Jägermeister. “Big brass ones” comes a little closer, I think 😉
#40 – The only thing I would like to add is there no way we can prevent these unstable people from getting there hands on lethal weapons? (Omaha, Va Tech, Columbine, the list goes on).
Be careful you don’t start a thread about guns 🙂
You mention Columbine, and I am reminded that one FBI report suggests that Eric Harris was a clinical psychopath. Dylan Klebold, on the other hand, was a severe depressive. The report on the FBI profile that I read pained Harris as one who would use emotional bullying on Klebold. Klebold, already suffering from other mental issues, was apparently easy to twist and manipulate into following Harris, who likely would never have been able to carry out his sick fantasy alone.
I’ve always had empathy for Dylan Klebold, and I don’t know, but I imagine were it not for the influence of Harris, Klebold may have got help, and certainly would not have become a suicide gunman.
At any rate… guns are not really the issue here. Maybe compassion and awareness are. Many of these killers seem to be people who used to be normal, but something inside them broke. They stand on the edge of the abyss and perhaps we should try to do a better job of recognizing that and pulling them back.
I don’t have an answer as to how… and statistically, crazed gunmen are a pretty rare problem, really… But if we could stop someone before they snapped, well, wouldn’t that be a worthy goal at least.
#43 – Gary
Just stay tuned… he’ll be back with a second act. 😉
#44, oftlo, Could be about Klebold. IIRC, his parents had the cash to send him to a private school, but I’ve never heard of any for normal IQ special needs students.
(sigh) Psychiatrists and psychologists seem like they are no more advanced than rattle shaking witch doctors. Maybe less advanced, as I recall a study from the 60’s comparing witch doctors, “normal care”, and doing nothing as a control. The witch doctors did the most good and the “modern” doctors actually did harm.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2007/12/atheist-killers.html
#46 – Psychiatrists and psychologists seem like they are no more advanced than rattle shaking witch doctors.
Who knows? That might be true 🙂
#47 – Wow… that linked blog post was written by an idiot.
#47 – Carbonara
*LOL* That site’s almost as good as The Onion.
#13 Jagermeister:
why no shootings in euro churches? not really a target-rich environment.
#38, Angel,
Considering that EVERY Christian TV channel has at least one or two shows dedicated to mock, ridicule and deem everyone who doesn’t give their church some monetary profit a Satanic cult…
Now you the man !!! Excellent riposte.
>>Wow… that linked blog post was
>>written by an idiot.
It must have been. It doesn’t agree with your Beliefs, so the guy must be an idiot!
It makes the argument for Atheists (or “Anti-theists”) being every bit the violent, homicidal, fucked-up psychopaths with a prediliction to murder that the Atheist Gospel attributes to Christianity.
Guess he must be nuts, huh? 😉
Lets get one thing straight. I don’t like Christians they annoy the shit out of me. They are constantly asking for things. Stupid things too like “please help me with that test” “don’t let me be pregnant” or “just let me win the lottery”. Yeah like that is going to fix your backwards thinking. What I really like is keeping them on edge. They are always so worried I am going to get pissed. Every now and then I throw a bit of bad luck their way to remind them who is in charge here. You know like their virgin daughter gets pregnant and has an abortion. It keeps them on their toes. What I hate more than Christians, is the pretend Christians. You know the type. They go out and do all sorts of bad stuff and then think it will all be ok if they just pray. I have a special surprise for those jerks. I will give you a hint. It includes fire and a torque wrench. Thank you Eduard Wille GmbH u. Co. One last thing about Christians. Keep it in the age group! You know what I mean so don’t pretend you don’t and start looking around at others.
Every now and then I get asked what about the Muslims. Well, let me say this. They really respect me. I have those poor suckers so scared they strap dynamite to themselves and light the fuse just to please me. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha 72 virgins.Yeah there is a reason they are virgins Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Well at least they provide me with entertainment. Watching them blow themselves up all the time is like watching a hot dog burst over a camp fire. It kind of makes me chuckle.
Atheists. Wow, they really have their shit together. Despite the fact that I am here they could care less. Bold move. I like that in a human. Who else could stand in the presence of my greatness and tell me to go fuck myself. Makes me think I have done something right.
As for the rest of you and all this Bible, Tora, and Koran bullshit. I didn’t write any of it. Do you realize how busy I am? What make you think I have time to write that much. Pin-heads! I got a lot of shit going on and you wack jobs think I have time to write you stories? Narcissistic much? Go about your business and leave each other alone and you Atheists stop picking on them. I made them slow for a reason.
YHWH
#53 – Mister Mustard
There’s no doubt that this guy was a religious nutter. Why the fuck do you think he was a former member of their church?
#54, The Lord,
Hey, if you are my father, can we discuss my inheritance? Why did you miss my birthday? Why didn’t you come to see me in the hospital when I broke my leg? Why did you leave Mom? Where were you for the Father – Son soccer game? Is there a special reason you couldn’t make it to my graduation?
Mister Castshit
Inheritance? The only thing you are going to inherit is an eternity of fire and nipple clamps because you have been such a good boy I thought I would give you something you enjoy. Do you think I have time to stop off and see every talking monkey when they get hurt? Your mother? Let me ask you this, would you hang out with a woman that has more VD than a Taiwanese hooker? I am the Lord not your daddy. If I wanted to see you play with swollen balls that much I would watch you in your bedroom every night. I didn’t visit your graduation because you didn’t have one.
#57, Daddy,
I didn’t visit your graduation because you didn’t have one.
That is what the teachers at Little Angels Pre-School called it.
#53 – It must have been. It doesn’t agree with your Beliefs, so the guy must be an idiot!
Quit making assumptions. He’s not an idiot because he disagrees with me. You disagree with me and you’re not an idiot.
He’s an idiot because his opinion is based on willful ignorance.
#58
Once again someone is posting as me. My guess would be that it is “mister catshit” and that he just forgot to remove the J from the dialog boxes befor he sent it.
>>My guess would be that it is “mister
>>catshit” and that he just forgot to
>>remove the J from the dialog boxes
>>befor he sent it.
Why would he be changing the dialog boxes? And why would he have “J” in the box in the first place? Presumably, the only person who would have “J” in his dialog box at all would be “J”. I set my dialog box to my name (Mister Mustard), and haven’t had to enter anything in it in the years since the first setting.