Moved BACK to the top until it runs out of steam!
I was always told that Christianity was a monotheistic religion but I want to challenge that because clearly it is not. First the definitions:
- No Gods – Atheism
- One God – Monotheism
- Two or more Gods – Polytheism
First, I’m not even going through the “Holy Ghost” thing except to say that “Trinity” means 3 and 3 > 1.
Assuming that:
- God is a deity
- Jesus is a deity
- Jesus and God are individuals
Then God and Jesus are two and 2 > 1.
Therefore Christianity is polytheism.
Polytheism isn’t a matter of belief. I personally am a Realist and I don’t believe any of it. However when one objectively classifies religious beliefs based on the number of gods, I’m counting two. Some would count three, but either is greater than one.
The reference is the Bible. According to the stories Jesus and God are two individuals. God was in the Old Testament, Jesus was not. Jesus was born of a virgin, God was not. Jesus addresses God as a separate individual. They have different stories. They have different roles. That talk to each other the way separate people talk.
The bottom line is – they are both deities and they are two individuals. Therefore Christianity is a polytheistic religion.
OK, I tried to catch up, but am not going to read another 200 posts. I did get far enough to find one to which I would like to reply. Please forgive me going over 200 messages back for those of you that have kept up with this incredibly busy thread.
#174 Katberos,
What you have described is called speciation. Are you actually suggesting that people have speciated? Do you think there are difference species of extant homo sapiens? Do you think that there are even different sub-species of homo sapiens. Neanderthals had once been considered another species of homo sapiens, but that changed and they’re all dead.
So, what are your human subspecies?
Secondly, you state:
And today we have humans of different genetic backgrounds, who have different traits, abilities, characteristics. Each and every group is better at some things than other groups and most, while not all, of those groups’ members, tend greatly to exhibit the physical and mental traits which the environment and culture of their ancestors selected for. It’s a little-known thingie called ‘evolution by natural selection.’ You may have heard of it.
So, please do enlighten the rest of us here. Please list some specific species or sub-species of humans and their particular attributes. See if you can do that without sounding racist.
bobbo #388
“have it your own way, seeing hidden things that when directly confronted people deny.”
bobbo lots of racist deny what they are. If fact that is quite common these days because they know it isn’t accepted hence the term hidden racism. Even the KKK has turned to “we are about the preservation of the white race” It spreads faster when it is hidden. because nobody notices it and challenges it.
“Push Jews–did we cover that?–half a sentence and totally ambiguous?”
let me post the whole sentence.
“And when I pointed out that there are a lot of pushy Jews” -Mr Mustard
How is that any better? How is that even slightly ambiguous”? Where is the evidence other than racist stereotypes that this is true?
He has made several statements that show his lack of concern in offending others. His terminology is remenisant of a hidden racist and he persists that it is ok.
Oh, and Three Headed Cat, while you’re at it, please pay special attention to the different abilities of the different species and subspecies of homo sapiens.
Hi Scot–yea, I was going to respond to post #174 as well. Easy to google–the idea of “races” is more cultural than scientific. Some use of race is used in a certain very few medical screening studies–but is not recommended.
Do Jews have about 6 times the amount of Tay Sachs disease compared to non-jews? Yes. Jews aren’t a race–rather they are an ethnic grouping.
But, I assume Catperson simply misspoke when saying that different races had different abilities. Easy to do when you are on a roll.
MikeN #392
“I suppose you also object to Chinaman?
How about Negro?
Black?”
Chinaman Yes.
Negro if used to refer to a persons color yes I think it is offensive. I personally do not take offense but I am not African American.
Black. Same as above.
And that fuck nut , Three Headed Cat, is defending Mr. Mustard
bobbo you sure you still want to be blind to that type of thinking?
393,
Human evolution stopped when we became able to manipulate our environment to suit us and keep alive those that would not normally survive. Arguably the Neanderthals were the last separate human species and I am among those that believe we killed them off.
#394–as there is no more interesting thread at the moment.
1. bobbo lots of racist deny what they are /// So the charge of racism is always accurate or can the chargee deny it with a variety of explanations?
2. It spreads faster when it is hidden. because nobody notices it and challenges it. /// If “it” is hidden, then what exactly is being spread? As in “New York Jews” are pushy people. Now, I think that is just a general BS statement to make, but fits a “stereotype” of anyone in Manhattan? So, what is being spread? Antisemitism, or a dislike of city people?
3–“And when I pointed out that there are a lot of pushy Jews” /// Well, what does lots of mean? Could be more than 3? Do you deny there are more than 3 pushy Jews in NYC?
4–He has made several statements that show his lack of concern in offending others. /// You have Mustardo completely WRONG!!!!!! In fact, he enjoys offending others, and he does it well, quite subtle at times.
Is Don Rickles a racists? I see alot of Mustard in his act.
Meanwhile, “in general” complaining of “hidden” anything is rhetorically very weak and puts you on the boundary with, if not in, the camp of all kinds of imaginary sins. Seems there are enough bigger complaints around.
“So the charge of racism is always accurate or can the chargee deny it with a variety of explanations?”
No not always but in this instance it is well founded.
“If “it” is hidden, then what exactly is being spread?”
The term “hidden” in this context does not mean that no one sees it. It means it is spread under the guise of justifications.
“As in “New York Jews” are pushy people. Now, I think that is just a general BS statement to make, but fits a “stereotype” of anyone in Manhattan?”
Do you even realize what you are saying?
“So, what is being spread? Antisemitism, or a dislike of city people?”
Let me post it again
“And when I pointed out that there are a lot of pushy Jews” -Mr Mustard
This separate statement does not include New York. It stands on its own.
and yes that is anti-Semitic
“Well, what does lots of mean? Could be more than 3? Do you deny there are more than 3 pushy Jews in NYC?”
In this context it means a considerable quantity or extent. Again where is the evidence that a lot of Jews are pushy. Any data to back that up? Any studies done on that? No of course not. it is a racial stereotype and it is offensive.
“You have Mustardo completely WRONG!!!!!! ”
No I have read what he has posted here.
“In fact, he enjoys offending others, and he does it well, quite subtle at times. ”
So you agree he has the ability subtlety place words in an attempt to offend?
“Is Don Rickles a racists? I see alot of Mustard in his act.”
I don’t know whether to laugh or just lower my head in disgust. No Don Rickels is not racist. All his “Racist” comments are made under a comedic routine.
“Meanwhile, “in general” complaining of “hidden” anything is rhetorically very weak and puts you on the boundary with, if not in, the camp of all kinds of imaginary sins. ”
Again “hidden” in this context does not actually mean hidden as in not being seen. It means out in the open yet under the guise of justifications.
bobbo
You know what else is a stereotype? That a lot of Christians are gay and like sex with little boys. So should Christians not take offense to that? Is it not an offensive remark equivalent to racism?
>>And when I pointed out that there are a
>>lot of pushy Jews” -Mr Mustard
>>
>>How is that any better?
Because it’s true. And if you deny it, you’re delusional. Sorry to burst your little bubble.
>>Black. Same as above.
Aw jeez. What are you allowed to call “black” people, then?
Monday morning meeting at Dvork.org.
John: OK. We need a whole whack of flame bait to get the ad renveue up. Any ideas?
Uncle Dave: Well, we know that everytime we post an attack on Christ/ianity we get tons of comments so that must be good right.
John: Good idea. Since it’s Christmas (spit) soon we should press hard and then I can get all of the writers new macbook pros (the choice of the discerning athiest).
Mperkel: Cool. I’ll trot over to the library and dust off old 16th century questions about the trinity. That’ll work.
Eideard: Hey. Even though the gunman at the mall hated Christians (like we do) I’m sure I can come up with a slant that blames them.
John: Good thinking people… anyone else?
Gasparrini: Hey I’ve go some quotes from athiests that’ll surely bait a lot of discussion and revenue… even though some of them weren’t atheists… small issue… and some of them recanted later… no bother!
John: Awesome thinking! Now… I’ll just put the link up for the horoscope again (by the way… mine said “today you will make lots of money being a bigot”) and we’ll be rolling in the dough. Meeting dismissed.
Uncle Dave: Man, it sure is a good thing we have no moral standard… I feel dirty….
>>Do you deny there are more than 3 pushy
>>Jews in NYC?
I think he denies that there are ANY pushy Jews, anywhere. Sort of a reverse racism kind of thing.
>>You know what else is a stereotype? That a lot
>>of Christians are gay and like sex with little
>>boys.
That’s no really a “stereotype”. It’s something that worshipers at the Atheist alter make a lot of hay with, because of a few high-profile cases. Sure, Catholic priests like to do it, but what do you expect? Their vows demand that they adopt an unnatural lifestyle. Papists aside, even the most spittle-flecked Atheist evangelist would not make the claim that most Christians like to have sex with little boys.
>>So should Christians not take offense to
>>that?
Gosh, I hope not. Otherwise I’d be incapacitated by offendedness. That kind of stuff shows up here on DU about 200 times a year.
>>Is it not an offensive remark
>>equivalent to racism?
I guess if your skin as as thin as Wal*Mart toilet paper, it’s mighty offensive. The rest of us just don’t give a fuck.
>>Does you wife like to because slant eye?
Are you lampooning the way Asian-Americans talk? You racist bastard. May you drown in your miso and matzoh ball soups.
#402–good. An “argument” rather than conclusions.
You ask:
bobbo
You know what else is a stereotype? That a lot of Christians are gay and like sex with little boys. /// I’m not aware of that stereotype. I have heard such a thing applied to Chatholic priest though. I assume that is what you mean?
So should Christians not take offense to that? //// Yes, christians and/or the Catholic Church SHOULD take offense at that, recognize it is entirely valid, and clean shop. But they won’t because they are on a power trip.
Is it not an offensive remark equivalent to racism? /// No.
Now–do christians in general molest the kiddies?==I think no more than normal, so no offense taken==the speaker would just be wrong, a jerk, an agent provocateur. Now, I could see insult if I was concerned that maybe my christian brothers had a child thing going on.–ie==getting upset reveals personal insecurity.
Now how would THAT apply to comments about pushy Jews. AND==why do you give Rickles a break and not Mustard? I see Mustard as more clever, but equally a performer.
Not into street art then? blog artist?
Yea, take a thread and tease it.
Mister Mustard #403
“Because it’s true. And if you deny it, you’re delusional. Sorry to burst your little bubble.”
Once again you show your true colors. Can you provide data or evidence? A study perhaps?
Anyone who cant see that statement as being racist is A FUCKING MORON!
Mister Mustard #404
“Aw jeez. What are you allowed to call “black” people, then?”
There are plenty of acceptable alternatives. Depends of where they are from. You if they are from America I would call them Americans or if they are from England I would call them British. Why is their color so important? Why do you need to refer to people by their physical characteristic. If everyone did that they would call you “Micropenis”
Mister Mustard #406
“I think he denies that there are ANY pushy Jews, anywhere.”
No I am sure there are pushy Jews. Just as there are pushy Irish Just as there are pushy East Asians Just as there are Pushy Italians. No more no less.
“That’s no really a “stereotype”.
Sorry to say yes it is! People perceive Christians are either pedophiles or closet homosexuals. That is a common belief amongst all the Christians I know. As a matter of fact it was a statement made by one of them who was upset with the Right wing Christians and their hypocrisy
Mister Mustard # 407
“Are you lampooning the way Asian-Americans talk? You racist bastard.”
Nope that was a mistype “to be called” was what it was supposed to be. But I find it curious that you saw it as the way Asian Americans talk. I did not and do not read it that way even with the mistype. I guess we all sound alike to you.
#405 – rectagon
Bet you’re glad that John C. has a policy of letting idiots post here – brainless dribble like this:
“John: Awesome thinking! Now… I’ll just put the link up for the horoscope again (by the way… mine said “today you will make lots of money being a bigot”) and we’ll be rolling in the dough. Meeting dismissed.
Uncle Dave: Man, it sure is a good thing we have no moral standard… I feel dirty….”
…being a bigot… …no moral standard…
Yeah, for allowing people to express their opinions. Can’t have that, can we ‘rectagon’. Might lead to people thinking for themselves.
I’m sure if you ask nicely, mgmt will let you decide for all of us what we’re allowed to say, that meets with your “moral” “unbigoted” approval.
Wow. What an imbecile you are. Really.
>>Can you provide data or evidence?
>>A study perhaps?
Oh yeah. Like in this day and age of political correctness, they’re going to do a study of “The Pushiness of Jews”. Just go out your front door and ask somebody. I can’t even believe we’re having this “conversation”.
>>Why is their color so important? Why do you
>>need to refer to people by their physical
>>characteristic.
It’s convenient? Why do we need to call people with red hair “redheads”? Short people “dwarves”? (oh, I forgot; that’s sizeist – they are really “little people”) Why do we “need” to call left-handed people “lefties” or “southpaws”? Is it all pervasive racisim?
>>If everyone did that they would call
>>you “Micropenis”
You’re really got that Phillip Roth thing going on with sexuality, don’t you?
>>Just as there are pushy Irish Just as there
>>are pushy East Asians Just as there are
>>Pushy Italians. No more no less.
You’re living in a dream world.
>>People perceive Christians are either
>>pedophiles or closet homosexuals.
Holy shit! I don’t know what kind of hate-filled kibbutz you live on, but that’s certainly not the “perception” in the general reality-based community.
I really don’t understand why you’re so offended at the generally-accepted observation that Jews are pushy. It’s no more offensive to most people than the observation that Italians talk using their hands, or that Canadians say “oot and aboot”. It’s a cultural thing.
Calmate, m’hijito. It’s not really that bad to be pushy. It’s not really that bad for people from the Orient to be called Orientals.
And your continuing cries of racism and discrimination only make you look like a fucking pansy.
bobbo
“I’m not aware of that stereotype. I have heard such a thing applied to Chatholic priest though.”
read and learn
http://tinyurl.com/yrozkj
and there is an entire Usenet group just for Christian pedophiles.
So I think the stereotype is there.
“Is it not an offensive remark equivalent to racism? /// No.”
Sad you think so because I do and I think it is just as wrong.
“I think no more than normal, so no offense taken”
I agree. Just like there are no more “Pushy Jews” than any other group of people.
“why do you give Rickles a break and not Mustard? I see Mustard as more clever, but equally a performer.”
Because he isn’t doing a comic routine. And I don’t really think Rickles is all that funny but he has made me laugh on occasion.
“Not into street art then? blog artist?”
To equate street art with someone who spouts on a blog is just NUTS
>>But I find it curious that you saw it as
>>the way Asian Americans talk.
I don’t find it “the way Asian Americans” talk. I find it to be an offensive bit of racist humor (you know, like Don Rickles) on par with “No tickee no shirtee”.
You’ve revealed your true colors now, xenophobe!
#411 stereotypes are stereotypes, same as words are just words.
They can – same as anything else – can become “racism” ONLY when it is used with the derogatory intent.
Words like white, black, oriental, asian, indian, they just describe people in general. If you know the person better and you know he is i.e. Korean, youre not going to describe him as “oriental” anymore, right? You’d say he is Korean.
Same as with white guy, if you know he is German you’d probably use the word “German” to describe him, but if you don’t, you just say “that white guy” to describe better the person.
If describing someone as “black” is racist to you, why isn’t describing someone as “white” racist?
Isn’t it because you think being described as “white” is some sort of positive description to you, while describing someone as “black” has some sort of negative/lesser meaning to you? THAT is racism.
#391 >>>I am part Chinese and I do!
“Does you wife like to because slant eye?”
Huh? Like to what…? I am not sure what you meant by that.
My wife is full Chinese and we live in Shanghai and she and her family don’t have any problems with slant eyes, chink, slope, yellow peril or any of that. They are just words and if a person wants to hurt someone they don’t need to use names. Names only hurt if you let them. As I said it is the intent of the person using these words to hurt or not.
Here is another example. If I get called a ‘turtle egg’ by a Chinese person…I think…so what? But that is very offensive to Chinese people. So the words have no meaning to me BUT if the intent of the person calling me a turtle egg is to hurt me then it doesn’t matter what they say does it? Might as well call me George Bush for that matter. LOL
I suggest you don’t go on so much on how non-Asian folks are racist to Asians as Asians could teach non-Asians a thing or two about racism!!
Asians are very racist to other Asians outside of their clique – if you lived anywhere in Asia for any length of time you would know this. If you had and still don’t know that then you lived a very cloistered life and should be a monk. So suck it up. Sticks and stones may break my bones but names never hurt me. 😉
By the way I haven’t read all 400 plus posts but has anyone commented on Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy as beliefs that are very real to Children?
Just like one day you realize that Santa isn’t real its the same as religion. The difference is your Dad doesn’t dress up as Jesus and does card tricks but is is the same.
Cheers
#416 – PVC,
The examples you cite are not stereotypes. Stereotypes are about characteristics about other attributes of a person attributed to their race. To note that someone is a member of some race is not necessarily racist. To assume that racial stereotypes like Jews being pushy is true is racist.
Sorry Mouseturd, based on your post #413, I have to take it back. You are not on the edge. You are a racist. If you honestly believe that the percentage of pushy Jews is higher than the percentage of pushy , you are definitely and without question a racist, in this case, of the subgroup of racists known as anti-Semites.
If you can’t come to terms with this, you should think about whether this is how you really wish to be. You can change with some soul searching. It should be easy since you believe you have a soul. Oh wait. That would involve actually listening to others and thinking about what they say, then performing some introspection. We already know you are incapable of this.
>>My wife is full Chinese and we live in Shanghai
>>and she and her family don’t have any problems
>>with slant eyes, chink, slope, yellow peril or
>>any of that.
Hey, I thought Vietnamese were “slopes”. Or am I falling behind in my racist knowledge?
Other than “yellow peril” (which seems to indicate some kind of danger), the others seem to be pretty mild, unless the speaker has some kind of malicious intent.
Is pointing out the fact that “Asians” have slanted eyes really any more offensive than pointing out that redheads have read hair, or that southpaws are left-handed.
I have been called “round-eyes” by several “Asian” people, and it’s always been meant (and understood) as a term of endearment.
Too much paranoia in J’s world, I’m afraid. With all those nationalities in his background, he must be in a constant state of DefCon 1.
I pity him and his fear.
Mister Mustard #419
“It’s convenient? ”
Well then that makes it ok doesn’t it?
“Is it all pervasive racisim?”
No because none of them relate to race.
Although some short people do find dwarf offensive.
“You’re really got that Phillip Roth thing going on with sexuality, don’t you?”
Don’t know I never read anything of his. I was just using a term that I think describes you by your physical characteristic.
“You’re living in a dream world.”
So you are saying that Jews because of their culture and race on whole are more pushy than any other race or culture? Where do you get your evidence? Show those data boards. If you can I will left it be.
“Holy shit! I don’t know what kind of hate-filled kibbutz you live on, but that’s certainly not the “perception” in the general reality-based community.”
Really that’s funny because all the Christians I know think it is and they don’t like it. See how your logic works. Also see my post with the link. How do you explain the large post count on the Christian Pedophile Usenet group? I don’t see a Jewish pedophile Usenet group at all
Using bobbo’s logic ……are there any? more than 3? well if so then I guess it is ok to say all Christians are pedophiles or closet homosexuals.
“I really don’t understand why you’re so offended at the generally-accepted observation that Jews are pushy”
BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING RACIST !!!!!!! and IT ISN’T TRUE!!!!!
“It’s no more offensive to most people than the observation that Italians talk using their hands,”
Yes it is because being pushy is negative and talking with your hands is not. Not that all stereotypes are of the negative type but that one is.
” It’s a cultural thing.”
and there in lies the “hidden” racism guised in justification
“It’s not really that bad to be pushy. It’s not really that bad for people from the Orient to be called Orientals.”
Why because you say so?
>>To assume that racial stereotypes like Jews
>>being pushy is true is racist.
Do you actually know any Jews, Scottie?
>>If you honestly believe that the percentage of
>>pushy Jews is higher than the percentage of
>>pushy , you are definitely and without question
>>a racist, in this case, of the subgroup of
>>racists known as anti-Semites.
I reiterate: Do you actually know any Jews, Scottie?
As to the “racism”, is it “racist” to mention that Canadians tend to say “oot and aboot” a lot? Or is that OK, because you believe it to be true?
Face it, dude. It’s a cultural thing. It’s not universal or absolute, but it’s certainly accurate.
And if being called pushy was the worst insult I’d ever suffered, I would consider myself the luckiest person alive.
#418 those are stereotypes! at least in the eyes of politically correct assholes like you and others 🙂
Best example: “african american” term is a substitute to “black” to you politically correct pigs, while there are white “african-americans” who moved to USA from i.e. South Africa and other racist countries where the white men are being now asked to leave – because of their skin color.
All politically correct whores are racist pigs at their core. Normal people have nothing against facts as they see them (black people have black skin and it is not any racist term but just a fact).
Example again: my coworker is a Black from Haiti and he hates it when anyone call him “african american”, because obviously he is NOT. ANother is a white guy from Turkey and he hates it when anyone call hiom “caucasian” – he ain’t from Caucasus area and he ain’t Asian either, just a white dude.
Dream on, but there is not enough idiots in the world to see what you call “racism” everywhere and in everything as you do 🙂
TIHZ_HO #417
“Huh? Like to what…? I am not sure what you meant by that.”
It was supposed to say “Does you wife like to be called slant eye?”
“My wife is full Chinese and we live in Shanghai and she and her family don’t have any problems with slant eyes, chink, slope, yellow peril or any of that. ”
I understand and that is fine for them. Not for me and a large group of people that descend from south east Asia
Besides “oriental” was not the only racist statement made by Mr. Mustard.
“Names only hurt if you let them.”
It’s not that the names hurt, at least not me. It is that they are offensive. Just as I am offended at the use of the word “nigger”
“Here is another example…………..”
and that is offensive. and no better than “oriental”
“I suggest you don’t go on so much on how non-Asian folks are racist to Asians as Asians could teach non-Asians a thing or two about racism!! ”
Oh you don’t have to tell me. I know that all to well.
“Asians are very racist to other Asians outside of their clique ”
Yes I know and I have members of my family that are just that. I don’t let them go unchallenged when they do it either.
“if you lived anywhere in Asia for any length of time you would know this.:
Worked for some time in Hong Kong back in the day so yes I know.
>>I was just using a term that I think
>>describes you by your physical
>>characteristic.
And you would know about my penis size how?
>>So you are saying that Jews because of their
>>culture and race on whole are more pushy than
>>any other race or culture?
Nope, just their culture. And I don’t know about being “more pushy than any other race or culture”, but they’re certainly more pushy than any other race or culture so predominant in the United States. Deal with it.
>>Really that’s funny because all the
>>Christians I know think it.
I thought you were full of shit. Now I know it.
>>How do you explain the large post count on
>>the Christian Pedophile Usenet group? I
>>don’t see a Jewish pedophile Usenet group at
>>all
I wasn’t aware that there was such a Usenet group. And even if I were, I certainly wouldn’t be spending so much time there as to be able to monitor the post count. What exactly are you up to in your spare time? You accuse ME of wanting to fuck little boys? Har!
>>Yes it is because being pushy is negative
You might want to check on your own pushyness factor, son. You seem to be the non-exception that proves the rule.
>>BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING RACIST !!!!!!! and
>>IT ISN’T TRUE!!!!!
Sure it is. Just look in the mirror. And put on the Big-Boy Pants, suck it in, and get on with your life. Christ. What a fucking whiner!