Moved BACK to the top until it runs out of steam!
I was always told that Christianity was a monotheistic religion but I want to challenge that because clearly it is not. First the definitions:
- No Gods – Atheism
- One God – Monotheism
- Two or more Gods – Polytheism
First, I’m not even going through the “Holy Ghost” thing except to say that “Trinity” means 3 and 3 > 1.
Assuming that:
- God is a deity
- Jesus is a deity
- Jesus and God are individuals
Then God and Jesus are two and 2 > 1.
Therefore Christianity is polytheism.
Polytheism isn’t a matter of belief. I personally am a Realist and I don’t believe any of it. However when one objectively classifies religious beliefs based on the number of gods, I’m counting two. Some would count three, but either is greater than one.
The reference is the Bible. According to the stories Jesus and God are two individuals. God was in the Old Testament, Jesus was not. Jesus was born of a virgin, God was not. Jesus addresses God as a separate individual. They have different stories. They have different roles. That talk to each other the way separate people talk.
The bottom line is – they are both deities and they are two individuals. Therefore Christianity is a polytheistic religion.
“I figure any religion that imagines there God objects to a ham & cheese sandwich or shellfish or a succulent pork chop or loin must be populated by lunatics anyway, hm?”
“Ha, as opposed to a religion that thinks G-d came down, inpregnanted a virgin, gave birth to himself, talks to himself, prays to himself, was killed, had himself raise himself from the dead and went up to heaven to be with himself is sane? hmmm”
Ah, I don’t know who you’re trying to fool, ‘Rabbi’, but that comment is a red herring. What difference does it make what kind of goofy shit they believe? That doesn’t make your chosen superstition any less inasne than IT is…
The Creator of the Universe gives a flying fuck that a person eats one kind of perfectly digestible, nutritious meat at the same time as drinking something from a different animal. Oy vey!
And he’s “offended” if you refer to him in writing and don’t omit a letter – so he won’t know you’re talking about him, right?
Pure idiotic insanity.
PoliticallyVeryCorrect #356
“It’s “racist” to point out that people with slanty eyes have slanty eyes? ”
In those terms yes!
“I realize “slanty eyes” might not cut the mustard in your social circle, but it’s a distinctive facial characteristic, and to deny that is every bit as nonsensical as denying you’re a Jew”
Wow! bobbo are you sure you want to keep defending Mr Mustard?
“If you cared more about war and starvation and genocide and LESS about how we refer to a physically distinct group of people (who really DO need a name), we’d be a whole lot better off.”
Funny you should say that because once long ago I was in the Peace Corp. Now, I just donate money. So I spend allot of time helping people.
“Fuck yes! What’s the big problem?”
The problem is the term “Oriental” was used to degrade in early America
“But for census, demographic, medical, and other purposes, it’s useful to have a more global term that encompasses all people with that distinctive facial characteristic.”
Hate to break it to you but no hospital I have been to uses the term torrential. For that matter neither does the census anymore.
“No, maybe we could call them “tribbles” or “bonkmajoojas”, ”
How about East Asians or South East Asians?
“You must live in a real snakepit of hatred, distrust, and racism. If I say “Oriental”, it’s without a racist thought in my brain.”
I would say you use it without any thought in your brain
“As to your quote from the “Sensitive Language” handbook, I saw it the first time. I just wanted to leave you with some dignity, so I didn’t mention it.”
Because you think being sensitive to they way others may interpret what you say is showing a lack of dignity?
You show a lack of education and a lack of social awareness that is beyond even Mr. Fusion.
PoliticallyVeryCorrect #356
Oh BTW Until you post a link to that form. You are completely discredited.
Why all the comments on something that is ‘make believe’? If there was this much effort into something useful we could all live better.
Now all of you play nice and no fighting, Santa is watching you, but don’t pray to him.
Cheers
#364 i dont need to post you any links, just ask any “Asian” you idiot.
Oh how i care about your opinion, bwahahahaha 😀
Mustard understands quite well a concept that I despair of you ever grasping in your lifetime, Mr. Sensitive.
Whether or not a word, or a name, or an adjective gives offense rests entirely with the listener. You and you alone determine what offends you – and the same applies to all people. What that means, in simple words even you should be able to understand is that IF YOU ARE OFFENDED, IT IS YOUR PROBLEM.
You don’t like the word ‘Oriental’? You’re offended by, say, ‘raghead’? That’s your choice. I had nothing to do with determining what offends you. I am therefore not obligated to change my mode of expression or choice of terms.
To me, the use of any letter of the alphabet between ‘I’ and ‘K’ for a pseudonym, handle, or nom de blog is blasphemous and as such, offends me deeply.
By your lights, in order to not be a hypocrite, you must show sensitivity and change your chosen moniker from ‘J’ to something else.
Dipshit.
#365 exactly – “make believe” is the main ingredient of every religion.
Unfortunately many believers are ready to die for their “make believes” and thats what is fundamentally wrong with this world.
For argument’s sake if there is a God then there is Satan.
Satan’s job meanwhile is to get everyone really hating and killing one another so he can have everyone’s soul and power. What better way for Satan to get his job done then to pretend to be God and ‘divinely’ inspire many different religions whom all claim to be the one true one!
Brilliant!
Many of us worked with people like this huh?
It’s so simple and that is the beauty of it…it must have been ‘divinely inspired’!
Cheers
PoliticallyVeryCorrect #364
“#364 i dont need to post you any links, just ask any “Asian” you idiot.”
That’s because no VISA form from The US says any such thing. Look them over Numb Nuts.
I am part Asian you Asshole!!!
the Three-Headed Cat #367
“Whether or not a word, or a name, or an adjective gives offense rests entirely with the listener.”
I couldn’t agree more. and that proves what?
“What that means, in simple words even you should be able to understand is that IF YOU ARE OFFENDED, IT IS YOUR PROBLEM.”
Right and I am speaking out against it. Do I not have a right to call some one a racist who has clearly demonstrated they say racist things? Or should I just shut my Jew Slant Mick mouth?
“I am therefore not obligated to change my mode of expression or choice of terms.”
Not asking you to. I am just providing the proof that civilized society considers it racist.
“To me, the use of any letter of the alphabet between ‘I’ and ‘K’ for a pseudonym, handle, or nom de blog is blasphemous and as such, offends me deeply. By your lights, in order to not be a hypocrite, you must show sensitivity and change your chosen moniker from ‘J’ to something else.”
I am sorry that my name offends you. Once you show me that it is an offense that is common and accepted as such in civilized society I will gladly change it. But since you can’t, I won’t be making any alterations.
Of course Christianity is polytheistic. It follows the same rules as the Norse and Greek gods. The Catholics get by the Trinity thing by just making up words…calling it “consubstantial Trinity” which just means it’s one…because we say so.
But the Trinity is separate ‘minds’ (Jesus had fear and doubt, god doesn’t) They can talk to each other but they’re the same being “at heart”? Fine, they share the same power base, but have distinct personalities…that IS what polytheism is for crying out loud. Zeus, Apollo and the rest of the Greek gods shared the same ‘god power’, they were just different personalities. Put it this way, even in the “poly” religions, there is usually one ‘creator’ who made the world (Odin), but just because his son Thor didn’t make the world, doesn’t mean he’s not also a god (same with Zeus who didn’t make the world, his parents the Titans did).
So God created the world, Jesus, Mary and Satan are still different personalities, all with supernatural powers (ability to answer prayers, grant wishes). Granted praying to Satan might be a bad idea, but even the Christians admit he has ‘power’ (not a mere human), so by DEFINITION he’s a god…not THE creator god, but still a god. Thor is “just” the son of Odin, not the creator god, but also worshiped and has powers given to him by his father (like Satan has powers given by God). Yet Christians think the Norse religion is polytheism even though the Trinity (if your Catholic), Mary, Satan, the archangels and the saints all comprise gods too…supernatural beings which can interact with mere humans…beings you can worship and pray to if you choose.
Forget the Trinity, with just God and Satan you have different beings who have different goals, different actions, different agendas, both with magic powers…but it’s monotheism?
>>should I just shut my Jew Slant Mick mouth?
Are you a Professional Victim, or what? Jeez, what a whiner! Or were you imitating the movie producer in “The Godfather”, talking to Consigliere Tom Hagen?
>>Once you show me that it is an offense that
>>is common and accepted as such in
>>civilized society I will gladly change it.
How common does it have to be? Moi, I’ve never met an actual person (“Asian” or otherwise) who was offended by the term “Oriental”. You say YOU are, so I guess somebody must be (assuming you’re somebody).
Señor Gato con Tres Cabezas and I are offended by the “letter that comes between I and K”, so there are at least TWO of us.
Looking forward to you posting under you new nom de blog 🙂
John, just because this thread is getting attention from folks who like to personally argue is not a good enough reason for marc to get a sub blog.
Marc really has not created any kind of dramatic insight, satirized an inanity of popular culture, or brought to our attention a story slipping between the cracks. Even the Weekly World News has some standards. He might have wrote a post saying “Everybody Mosh,” & tossed some punk music youTube video up there.
The fact that a post can create disruption, and personal attacks from reader to reader, is not necessarily attributable to the original post. You might be happy with the advertising page views and that is yet a different story. That’s some editorial decision you have to make.
Mr Mustard # 372
“Are you a Professional Victim, or what? ”
What? I didn’t get the racist translation right?
Mr Mustard #373
“I’ve never met an actual person (”Asian” or otherwise) who was offended by the term “Oriental”. You say YOU are, so I guess somebody must be (assuming you’re somebody).”
Well I guess you don’t get out much. It is so commonly offensive and known to be offensive that even the Oxford English dictionary mentions the fact that if is offensive as do many other dictionaries. Stop being a Dolt! Thank the Three-Headed Cat I like that word and haven’t used it in a long while.
Hey lets not forget the “there are a lot of pushy Jews ” That is a winner on top of your “Oriental” comments. I don’t think you are a hidden racist at all. NAH!!!!! DOLT!
“Señor Gato con Tres Cabezas and I are offended by the “letter that comes between I and K”, so there are at least TWO of us.”
Like I said ” Once you (edit and Señor Chocha) show me that it is an offense that is common and accepted as such in civilized society I will gladly change it.”
Just like the word “Oriental” is commonly accepted as offensive.
“Looking forward to you posting under you new nom de blog ”
Don’t get your hopes up because you won’t be able to prove or legitimately claim your nonsense
I have an idea Why don’t you go and argue with the publishers of Oxford Dictionary and Heritage dictionary and the Webster’s dictionary and stop posting your racist bullshit here? You are an ignorant fuck who not only doesn’t know the things he says are racist or offensive but when it is pointed out by no less than three other people on the Blog continues to make further and more offensive statements.
PoliticallyVeryCorrect
Still waiting for the link to the US VISA form that says yellow or Oriental.
Correction, That should read :
The fact that a post can be followed by disruption, and personal attacks from reader to reader, is not necessarily attributable to the original post.
My assertion is not that the original post “created” nothing. Our minds being prone to adjust disoriented scenes filled in the blanks with what we have experienced. The fact that more people picked on what each other said than the original post should say it all.
Gosh, the undying thread. Rare to post, sleep, arise and find a thread just where I left off?
Being a word lover, I caught “J’s” comment that “Oriental” has negative connotations as even documented in the Oxford Dictionary. I thought–ok–maybe Oxford. I went to my milk-toast free electronic dictionary (“WordWeb”–recommended)and sure enough, it has that connotation too!
Here it is: Oriental:
Denoting or characteristic of the biogeographic region including southern Asia and the Malay Archipelago as far as the Philippines and Borneo and Java
“Oriental politeness”; “for people of South and East Asian ancestry the term ‘Asian’ is preferred to ‘Oriental'”
SO–Mr Mustard==I know you like to define words in your own special way but ignorance like yours and mine must give way to objective news sources. Now,J–your elders walking around with dated vocabulary does not prove racism. Nor does refusing to update one’s vocabulary.
The hazard in being “overly sensitive” to racism, even when spotting it in nascent forms and decrying it as full blown, is that you turn potential allies into enemies==just what you are trying to avoid.
Sometimes a lighter touch is more effective.
J,
The word to describe you is TROLL. You have taken several words out of context and proceeded to tar Mister Mustard. Repeatedly. Because you didn’t like the “tone” of what he said. Well, too fucking bad. Mustard is NOT a racist. I don’t always agree with him but do accord him my respect for following his beliefs and making a good argument, sometimes against overwhelming odds. No, Mustard is not always correct. But he is seldom wrong either.
Oriental,
Damn, so much blather over a word so few understand. The word means “from the east”. During Roman times it applied to anyone living further east that Greece and later Turkey. That included what today is referred to as The Middle East, Egypt, Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. Only later did Oriental come to refer to those from South East Asia such as Chinese, Burmese, Vietnamese, and Cambodians.
From The Free Dictionary, a note after their definition.
Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental-meaning “eastern”-is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.
(my emphasis)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/oriental
I don’t think J is a troll. I believe he sincerely believes what he posts. He suffers a bit from over sensitivity, jumping to conclusions, not slowing down for context, and being slow to pick up on how the other person is using words—-but don’t we all?
J shows some flexibility. Where better to hone one’s skills in taking on Mustard and the other spice boys than right here?
Nobody knows the heart of Mustardo–his seed so to speak. We can only comment on his postings. There I would agree Mustardo has not shown himself to be racists, but rather an agent provacateur, just what a good blog needs.
“Mustardo is seldom wrong either.” You sir are a troll.
OFTLO,
A Chinese restaurant with a Mexican cook? Who’d a thunk it? Maybe we habituate the same place. There couldn’t be two Chinese restaurants using Mexican cooks in Indiana, could there? Is the restaurant mostly done in red with gold trim and lots of dragons?
I think his name is Hector, or Miguel, or something Spanish sounding. It might be Jesus because when my wife got sick after eating their sum cum glooplast year, she was sure screaming his name.
At the end of the day, bottom-lining it, what exactly is an accusation of “racism”?
When it lacks any and all evidence of the accused party actually intending his or her words as an unjust criticism of an individual or group by asserting an incorrect stereotype based on the subjects race, calling someone ‘racist’ is a ideologically-based slur and logically invalid ad hominim attack.
And that is all the douchebag troll and Politically Correct bozo ‘J’ knows – unsubstantiated accusations of attitudes that he claims, without evidence, are motivated by racial bigotry.
But said bozo does not know, and can only – inaccurately – infer racist intent in the words he condemns.
When his statements are refuted, he ignores the fact – like any ideologue with an axe to grind at any cost – and persists in his unprovable ad h. attacks.
I for one will proceed to ignore his irratiional, obsessive and false finger-pointing – and I suggest all sensible posters do the same.
His “arguments” have proven to be worth slightly less than a bucket of warm spit. I see no further purpose in engaging the PC parrot over his cherished misperceptiions. He brings nothing substantive to the table and has exhausted even his amusement potential.
Besides – Xianity IS a polytheistic superstition. Isn’t it obvious by now?
(How do you like that clever, smooth segue back onto topic? Kewl, huh?) 😛
My wife is Chinese and she has no problem with all the slang – its how it the word is used and the intent to hurt.
Cheers
Is this just way off topic or what? I thought this was about the imaginary trinity?
Mister Catshit #379
“The word to describe you is TROLL.”
First I have been posting here for almost 2 years. I don’t spend the amount of time that others like Mr. Mustard of Mr. Fusion do but I do post when I see something that strikes my fancy.
“You have taken several words out of context and proceeded to tar Mister Mustard. ”
No I took nothing out of context and Mr. Mustard has done a fine job of that himself.
“Because you didn’t like the “tone” of what he said. Well, too fucking bad. ”
Well too fucking bad for YOU because I don’t like his tone and will continue to post until he and other stop defending it.
“Mustard is NOT a racist. ”
Really Even with comments like
“there are a lot of pushy Jews ” – Mr. Mustard
“It’s “racist” to point out that people with slanty eyes have slanty eyes? I realize “slanty eyes” might not cut the mustard in your social circle, but it’s a distinctive facial characteristic” – Mr . Mustard
Are you sure you want to stand by that?
Mister Catshit#380
“Damn, so much blather over a word so few understand.”
Posting a definition of the word from a dictionary doesn’t mean you understand anything about the word
“During Roman times it applied to anyone living further east that Greece and later Turkey. That included what today is referred to as The Middle East, Egypt, Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. ”
Do you realize that goes directly against what Mr. Mustard has said?
“Only later did Oriental come to refer to those from South East Asia such as Chinese, Burmese, Vietnamese, and Cambodians.”
Right and that is why it is considered offensive. It refers to a physical characteristic instead of geographical location.
The proper terms are Asian an South East Asian and East Asian if you don’t know the actual country of location.
So Mr. Catshit. You have not added anything to this debate. The word has been defined repeatedly and its history repeatedly discussed
bobbo #381
“He suffers a bit from over sensitivity,”
Perhaps but that isn’t the case here. I see someone who is a hidden racist.
Again
“there are a lot of pushy Jews ” – Mr. Mustard
“It’s “racist” to point out that people with slanty eyes have slanty eyes? I realize “slanty eyes” might not cut the mustard in your social circle, but it’s a distinctive facial characteristic” – Mr . Mustard
If you were Chinese and Jewish wouldn’t you be at least a little offend and chalk these comments up to a racist attitude?
Pushy Jews and Slanty eyes. Nice I am glad so many people think it is ok to use these terms when referring to people.
“J shows some flexibility.”
What and allow people to go unchallenged with what I think is a hidden racist attitude. NO. If they post racist shit I will challenge it. Back in the 50’s not many people thought it was wrong to us the word colored when referring to African American’s. Now it is widely known and you look like uneducated white trash for using it.
“Nobody knows the heart of Mustardo–his seed so to speak. We can only comment on his postings.”
Which is precisely what I am doing.
“There I would agree Mustardo has not shown himself to be racists, but rather an agent provacateur”
Well that is were you and I see it differently.
J — have it your own way, seeing hidden things that when directly confronted people deny.
Push Jews–did we cover that?–half a sentence and totally ambiguous? And could just be parroting a common archetype in society rather than any held belief?
Spend your energy and good will where you will, but I’d save my powder for something more objective.
the Three-Headed Cat #83
“unsubstantiated accusations of attitudes that he claims, without evidence, are motivated by racial bigotry.”
Really? So let me post 2 of the few again. Mind you he didn’t say he was joking about these comments either.
“there are a lot of pushy Jews ” – Mr. Mustard
“It’s “racist” to point out that people with slanty eyes have slanty eyes? I realize “slanty eyes” might not cut the mustard in your social circle, but it’s a distinctive facial characteristic” – Mr . Mustard”
“inaccurately – infer racist intent in the words he condemns.”
That’s funny because I see a lot of intent in those above comments and it is a sad statement about America that people like you are still running around.
“When his statements are refuted”
When exactly did that take place? Because all I saw was justification for using offensive speech.
“and persists in his unprovable ad h. attacks.”
Wow that’s funny coming form the guy who called me
“Politically Correct bozo ” “douchebag troll ” “bozo” “ideologue”
All in the same post.
385,
Any discussion involving politics or religion suffers some mission creep, but this one has also become a Hydra. We have arguments on racist rhetoic running neck-and-neck with discussions on dietary practices and the nature of faith, among others.
I believe in God, but not any religion’s interpretation of the mystery. People arguing about religion are like kids trying to deterimine who has the best imaginary friend.
TIHZ_HO
“My wife is Chinese and she has no problem with all the slang – its how it the word is used and the intent to hurt. ”
I am part Chinese and I do! Does you wife like to because slant eye?
Again not just the Oriental comment he made.
“there are a lot of pushy Jews ” – Mr. Mustard
“It’s “racist” to point out that people with slanty eyes have slanty eyes? I realize “slanty eyes” might not cut the mustard in your social circle, but it’s a distinctive facial characteristic” – Mr . Mustard
I suppose you also object to Chinaman?
How about Negro?
Black?