Diego Ortiz, one of two men shot by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn.
Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor’s home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday. Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun. The detective’s name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others. The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.
Authorities have said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents. The two — killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor’s property — were in the country illegally, according to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He ignored an operator’s warning to not go outside with his gun. Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn’s house about four months ago. “They targeted foreign-born people,” Corbett said. “They felt they were easier victims.”Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames. Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.
On the website is the audio of the 911 call where dispatch is trying to talk this man out of confronting the criminals. Chilling.
I cannot understand how minorities have so much power…that is not democracy where the majority rules isn’t it? Something is back to front here…
Bring back Merry Christmas greetings, Christmas trees and decorations in shops and public areas – that is democracy in action, the MAJORITY RULES! Right?
(Even in 90% Muslim Indonesia they say Merry Christmas in shops and Christmas is a national holiday)
Cheers
Ivory tower intellectuals always get it wrong, I don’t cry over bad guys getting shot.
Whoooeee ! Since I live in hunters paradise and there are very few people in this community who do not own AND cary weapons, I guess I have to wonder why there appears to be such a disparate level of violence and crime ? I normally would have shrugged that off as low vs high population density but, there are several hundred thousand people in the largest metropolis within the state and a multiplicity of ethnic groups from nearly every recent zone of conflict this country has been involved in for the last 40 years and other than the normal rapes, drug based robberies and burglaries, ethnic fighting over turf and a little Native American unrest, we don’t seem to be killing each other nearly as much as our friends on the southern borders. Canadiens don’t count…they’re way too much fun to party with and they’re only dangerous trying to drive back home afterwards. So, what gives ? And can anyone tell me how/why the unclothed plainmarked detective arrived so quickly…(sorry, I just hadda say that..)
Pasadena TX. No, never been there and will likely do my best to avoid it in the future as it sounds like more of Rambo and little of Jeff Foxworthy.
In a warped way, Horn was on the right track, imo.
I’ve always felt better knowing my neighbor was watching my home because he knew we were off somewhere and I think he feels the same as regards my efforts on his behalf, although, he does know I draw the line at blowing someone up with my shotgun. I guess if it was in defense of his life or someone else’s I would try to ensure I had buckshot instead of the measley #2 duck grade shot another poster mentioned..sheesh! I want major holes ! That’s where I stand..I have a nice digital/telephoto and a shotgun and I know which one to shoot with…
No one will ever know the intentions, so bless the souls; live and let die
#33, Mister DeLaMa,
So it doesn’t matter if the punishment fits the crime. Shoot, as I mentioned above, getting shot with #2 BUCKSHOT for speeding is OK with you.
How about littering? Can I blow your worthless skull apart then too?
What if your kid sneaks into an empty house with some of his friends?
Jesus H. Christ, if you happen to be in the fast lane going less than the limit, …
***
What you yahoos don’t think about is this country is based upon LAW. Respect for the law doesn’t come when the laws are stacked in favor of the wealthy and fortunate. Respect is something that is earned. Respect for the law depends upon fair and equal application to everyone. If the law is applied disproportionately, then some people are above the law. If someone is above the law, then no one is below the law. And if law comes from the end of a gun, no one is safe from personally applied justice.
That might be YOUR way, but it is not the American way. Or the civilized way.
By listening to the 911 tape, the only rational conclusion that can be reached is that this man (Horn) is a murderer. He does not sound afraid, he sounds exited and angry. He repeatedly disputes the advice that the dispatch operator gives him with such statements as “…sorry, I’m going” or “I’m not gonna let ’em get away with this.” He illustrated his desire for a fight saying “..did you here the shotgun click” and finally showed that he had no interest in law or protection by saying to the thieves “hello you’re dead!” This man did not go outside with defense of life or property on his mind. He went outside with murder in his heart and should be treated accordingly by the law. “Hello you’re dead” says it all. This was about a man who wanted a chance to kill someone with impunity.
…and yes for all of you emotive nuts out there, yes my family and a fair cross-section of my friends have been robbed.
Mister Catshit,
They were in his yard carrying crowbars and the property from the house next door. They saw his gun and started to run and got shot in the back. This is what you should expect if you are committing a crime and trespass on another’ s property. These guys weren’t littering until AFTER they were shot. Personally I’d buy this guy more ammo. I’ll bet the crime rate drops in that area after removing those two.
Hello, and welcome to the year 2007 in America, where human life is worthless if you aren’t the right color, speaking the right language, believing in the right god, or above the poverty line.
Such a shame in a society where the majority believe in Jesus, but they don’t listen to anything he said.
those 2 criminals were not illegals they were black and they were career criminals. the case is going to the grand jury and I will bet large sums of money it gets no billed becasue in Texas we dont mess around, break in my house and I will shoot you twice just to make sure your dead
#12- “heat of the moment”
Sorry. Heat of the moment does not apply when you’ve been on the phone with the dispatcher who told you repeatedly that you should remain in your house. If you want to sit inside your door and see if they approach your house, no problem.
I’m surprised that the undercover officer did not drop him like a deer when he started firing. He would have been within his role to do so. Then where is Mr. Horn? Laying on a slab instead of those two guys.
Did they get what they deserved? I think so. However, they did not get it in a way that assures the public safety or meets the rule of law. In order for safety to be restored, Mr. Horn has to do some time. Otherwise, every nut with a gun is going to come OUT of his house and start shooting people they BELIEVE are violating the law. Will I get a chance to explain, or even walk away from a volatile situation? Nope, because he gets to shoot me in the back as I leave.
Thank goodness I don’t live in Texas. I’d hate to be locked out of my house in a new neighborhood. Mr. Horn might shoot me as an intruder.
Sorry you missed the message, Mr. excreting-feline,
“..I have a digital/telephoto..means I have a camera with telephoto attacment..”and a shotgun and I know which one to shoot”. I know, pretty much, when to use a gun and when to use a camera. You ain’t got a gun, I shoot your ass with the camera and anonymously send the photo’s to law enforcement and the neighbor,( not so anonymously). You got a gun..better shoot first.
Mr. Horn should have shot them and then gone back in his house and cleaned his shotgun. Let someone else call 911. I read on another post that the 3 headed cat was really Hillary Clinton!
Aww, poor widlle cwiminals got shot. 🙁
Perfect thread for a discussion on “property rights” vs “human rights?”
Lets begin by understanding MORE than property rights are at issue here as in HOME INVASION BURGLARY–now who exactly does that? Not anyone looking to have human rights protected.
So, I just read some religious notion that you can’t punish a man for going into your field and eating his fill, but you can punish him if he fills his garmets with food. Fine line that trying to find the line between property and human rights.
Uh, bobbo? I don’t know if it’s your intention or not, but you’re muddying the waters here.
These unarmed shitbags burglarized – now, pay attention – an unoccupied dwelling.
A home invasion is one, usually more or more armed criminals who invade an occupied home, usually assaulting and injuring or killing one or more of the occupants – intentionally.
Burglary is NOT “home invasion” and any attempt to equate the two is dishonest or stupid. Now, you’re not stupid, are you, bobbo? So why are you being dishonest?
“You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.”
we’re they muslims who didn’t knew basic principles of christianity-based world, or what?
And why would you let anyone burglarize your neighbour’s property – wouldn’t you expect your neighbour to protect your property when you weren’t there? You liberal are clearly the worst possible kind of assholes.
The “punishment” was just and swift. The criminals been stealing for years and years. Finally they get what they deserved.
If any of you want to live in a society full of thieves, be liberal and let the criminals burglarize, rape and even kill you as they please, but some of us prefer to live in a scum-free society.
They were in this country illegally, they were stealing from him. So the homeowner had the right to shoot the intruders. Oh wait he was black?
disregard my last statement. I thought the homeowner was the guy in the picture. sorry
They were in his yard, not in the neighbor’s yard. I would say “Bad shoot” if they were still in the neighbor’s yard, but they were in his yard, was he next on the shopping list?
The “shot in the back part” is pure ignorance. Someone can turn around faster than the shooter can realize the threat has been reduced.
“Just property”? Burglars sell what they steal for less than 10% of it’s purchase/replacement cost, and do thousands of dollars worth of damage, and it takes hundreds of hours of my life to replace what’s stolen? It’s the burglars choice to risk his life to steal those hundreds of hours of my life. “Is it worth a life” is fine for people with rich mommies and daddies, or who are related to thieves.
Whoever came up with the script for the 911 operator to follow screwed up.
Once they walked onto his property he was perfectly within his rights to defend himself. NO charges will be filed in this one.
2 ‘devoted’ scumbags less, at almost no cost to society. Mr. Horn SAVED many many households from ‘enjoying’ a burglary, many people from grief after losing their more or less valuable things, all of us our money wasted on the court trials and lawyers – not to mention the time we all would be feeding and sheltering the scumbags in the jail at our expenses…
Whats there not to like?
HORN for PRESIDENT!
“If any of you want to live in a society full of thieves, be liberal and let the criminals burglarize, rape and even kill you as they please, but some of us prefer to live in a scum-free society.”
100%
Any society that condones taking human life over the theft of inanimate, material objects is barbaric, primitive and far from ‘scum-free.’
Every time I watch the brutal, animalistic carryings-on of armed and emotional peasants in places like Afghanistan, I think of our home-grown cavemen, like you bunch.
#53 thanks to us, you are still relatively safe in your house, asshole.
But thanks to assholes like you, the general public’s safety is getting worse and worse.
#54, VeryMuchADickwad
You have that backwards. Your stance is ignoring the “civil” in civilization. Your way just leads to anarchy. Do you really want to be constantly looking over your shoulder to see if someone is taking aim because you shot his brother? No one would be safe. It would be impossible to run a business.
#55 I don’t have to. In my town, where everyone can – and yes, often do – carry a gun, any scumbag thinks at least twice before trying any burglary.
Believe it or not, I don’t remember ANY burglary ever, why is that, genius? Isn’t it because all scumbags prefer to do their crimes in *your* area, where they know their crimes will most likely go unpunished and there is no one to defend their property? 😉
It is interesting that a person’s point of view on whether these to criminals deserved to die is taken as the basis to determine “civilization” of that person. On one hand the complaint is that Horn was Judge, Jury and Executioner…yet on the other people are assuming no less of a role themselves for Horn. Personally I believe Horn took actions and should be held responsible for them by standing in front of a trial by jury. If I were on that jury I would probably say that Horn acted in the public interest…
Can anybody answer whether the burglars deserve (in the karmic sense) to die? I doubt it unless you also happen to know what else they have done, what they do with the proceeds of their criminal activities, what their future plans are, etc. Speaking practically it is probably safe to assume they aren’t stealing to fund the local shelter and probably aren’t putting themselves through night school. From a fiscal point of view it is hard to argue that they didn’t deserve what they got. For every dollar we spend housing, feeding, and otherwise caring for these criminals we spend one less on education and healthcare for people who have not violated somebody else. Why is burglary such a low priority for the police? They are to busy dealing with the criminals that have found there is little or no consequence for lesser crimes and have “graduated” to something that finally gets our attention. Take any action you want to take but be willing to be accountable for it.
It amazes me how often people abdicate their obligations to do the nasty and unpleasant things required to maintain “civilization” and rely on others, namely the police, to do it for them. I don’t believe that the public at large should form posses and hunt down every petty criminal but if more people acted to protect themselves and their property (and looked out for their neighbors’) then the professional police could spend more time dealing with the “professional” criminal gangs, drug rings, etc.
He needs to go to jail like the guy in NY had to. The guy in NY that shot the guys going after his kid was way more justified and he got charged… I wonder if it was a coincidence that he was black????
I say this should be a lottery type of thing. If you shoot and they are innocent of being scum, THEN you go to jail. If they turn out to have an overdue library book, then obviously, you are justified in taking them out.
Update:
June 30, 2008, 11:47PM
Joe Horn cleared by grand jury in Pasadena shootings
Panel issues no-bill after two weeks of testimony
http://tinyurl.com/4xf5jn
Comments:
http://tinyurl.com/5zuwhs