American voters in the background
America has told Britain that it can “kidnap” British citizens if they are wanted for crimes in the United States.
A senior lawyer for the American government has told the Court of Appeal in London that kidnapping foreign citizens is permissible under American law because the US Supreme Court has sanctioned it…
Until now it was commonly assumed that US law permitted kidnapping only in the “extraordinary rendition” of terrorist suspects…
Legal experts confirmed this weekend that America viewed extradition as just one way of getting foreign suspects back to face trial. Rendition, or kidnapping, dates back to 19th-century bounty hunting and Washington believes it is still legitimate.
Shami Chakrabarti, director of the human rights group Liberty, said: “This law may date back to bounty hunting days, but they should sort it out if they claim to be a civilised nation.”
The thugs in the White House rewrite history and law to suit themselves.
One of these days we may rejoin the assembly of “civilised nations”. Not until American voters progress beyond the week’s popularity contest on YouTube.
Thanks, Sergio
republicans will say that opposing this sort of thing means that you support crime
with that entrenched attitude, there’s no end to the sort of shenanigans that they will support
they already support torture and capital punishment, so their moral compass is clear.
#1 B – No, Republicans will most likely point out that it is not just Republicans that have done it.
But let the shit fly since it so easy to blame Bush for everything when you are incapable of thinking for yourself.
I remember a few years ago a Canadian was wanted in Florida. Some bounty hunters kidnapped him, stuffed him into a car trunk, and took him to Florida. The Canadians put up a very strong protest as the US had not even asked he be extradited. He was returned to Canada as were the bounty hunters who each got several years in jail for kidnapping and assault. When the US tried to extradite him, it was discovered they didn’t have any evidence that would stand up.
Then just a couple of years ago, some bounty hunters kidnapped a fugitive in Mexico. Those bounty hunters were extradited and faced Mexican justice although Mexico later dropped the charges. These guys just recently had their TV show canceled.
The moral here is that civilized nations do not kidnap people. They ask the host country to extradite the accused person so that he may be tried for a crime.
Seems reasonable to me:
http://www.progress.org/fold232.htm
#4 TB – But then we would end up with a bunch of cowboys hunting down people all over the world. My guess would be that it would be with little to no oversight.
Let’s say the Russian Business Network was funding a terrorist strike and someone passed along one of those letters. How many individuals without the skills of Rambo and Chuck Norris would have the balls to go into St Petersburg to arrest them?
A Republican would point out the Clinton started the extraordinary rendition program, and that we have the truly ruthless Clinton running for office.
If this is true it seems odd coming from a country purporting justice, liberty, freedom…or is it just like a used car yard advertising the “Best Deals in Town”…not. 😉
Cheers
Well hey, if kidnapping and torture are O.K. now.
Why not go back to assassination of foreign heads of state?
#8 What do you mean go back to?
😉
I prefer to call such antics the “Anny Colter phenomenon.” I do not disagree with the renditions , only their flight plans. Why outsource anything but bedsheets to Egypt.
The point remains unchallenged. That under US law it is permissible. Seems like a bad idea though, given that these countries have extradition treaties and all. Next some people might decide to kidnap Henry Kissinger or something.
Hasn’t Israel done this sort of stuff before.
Then again, the Brits are in no position to complain after what they did to Pinochet.
#8. What? Like its ever stopped? Did you get the memo or something?
#2 i do think for myself, thank you very much.
but you’re right i totally forgot that if they do something immoral or illegal, republicans will say that other people are doing it so therefore it’s okay
i suppose if someone jumped off a bridge, you’d sign off on that too?
basically george w. bush is saying that we do not respect the sovereignty of even our allies.
way to make friends there, georgie.
No wonder the rest of the world hates our guts.
It’s as simple as this:
Other countries know what we will do if they don’t take care of business. If they don’t, we’ll send someone in to take out the responsible party. If they do, they don’t have to worry about it.
If they don’t like it and try to invade, they can contend with our vastly superior defense force.
Pull our tax-paid troops out and put them at the border, send in the privateers and mercenaries to right the wrongs, and let the large, fat-cat corporations pay for their own foreign defense.
Everyone gripes about the troops overseas but at the same time lay down on their backs with the legs in the air when it comes to punishing the bad guys.
We either station our troops wherever we like (which pisses everybody off, even us) or use a letter of marque and reprisal (which, btw, does not require oversight by the government — you’re on your own over there).
So, take your pick. You can’t have it both ways, people!
#13 – I might support that bridge jumping thing if it were the right people jumping. Where do I sign you up?
#14 – And by “we” you mean all of us since Obomba said he would go into Pakistan WITHOUT their permission and do whatever he damn well pleased if he was President.
#16, i understand the urge to tell the whole world to kiss our collective ass and to say “screw you guys, i’m going home”
our enemies are myriad and they are indeed sneaky and evil, and our allies act as if they sometimes don’t want to do exactly as they’re told.
and it is very appealing to have an american leader that talks tough and is cavalier
but this isn’t a dirty harry movie nor an episode of 24, this is reality
and in reality, W is disrespecting one of our nation’s best allies and in reality, that is just plain poor strategy.
imagine your reaction if britain said the same of american citizens — you would flip straight the F out. (now recite the golden rule)
seriously, you might think that america can exist without friendly relations with other nations, but a quick look at your local walmart and at your gas stationj is all you need to realize that you would be wrong in thinking that.
you don’t have to be dick to be tough, smarten up sparky.
Ok, did anyone note that this law was included in our Constitution because it already exsisted as an international law ? I think that means something along the lines of we can and so too can the other guys ?!?
Gosh ! tiny lines of Spy vs Spy types at the airline check-in..the imagination runs rampant..You whacked my Daddy and I’m a-whackin’ you ! Hmm..no oversight means who has to pay up-Chuck Norris or hammy-Rammyboob ?
The older I get, the more it looks like I live in a world sized playground full of 5 year-olds.
#17 that’s pretty funny 😉
hey man, the core of what i am saying is that we as a nation seem to be on a path toward being just openly mean, callous and violent, and i believe that down that path lies despair not hope.
cowboy gunslingers don’t die from old age.
#17 by ‘we’ i mean all americans, since bush was elected to speak for us collectively in international affairs (that’s his job)
also i’m not talking about obama i’m talking about george w. bush, focus, focus, focus.
changing the subject only proves you have nothing valid to say
#20 – I’m certainly glad I’m not a cowboy then…
#21 – I was merely pointing out there is another fuckwit in the wings that people seem to gloss over. I guess if said fuckwit gets elected THEN and only then will we begin to discuss what an idiotic idea he has.
We sure as hell wouldn’t want to bring it up here BEFORE someone found out.
This thread is focused on the problem and only a dimwit would think that it is always Bush’s fault.
You guys remind me of Gomer Pyle on The Andy Griffith show when he was yelling “Citizen’s Arrest Citizen’s Arrest!”. It’s George Bush, it’s George Bush. The constant whining about Bush is deafening. Good thing we will have Billary back soon and this blog will fold up like a house of cards.
steve-o
#22 you still have not offered a single reason why publicly stating that our nation considers it legal to have u.s. law enforcement officials make arrests with our allies’ borders is a good idea, nor have you offered any reason why george w. bush should be lauded instead of vilified
you have merely stated your displeasure at hearing people say bad things about him.
here, let me defend this for you since you won’t — diplomatic extradition relies to heavily on the political leanings of the foreign power in question, which can tie up our courts for inordinate amounts of time, and creates a loophole, an escape hatch for criminals. This closes that loophole, and sends a clear message that fleeing this nation’s borders is no longer an option.
See? that wasn’t so hard was it?
george w. bush, while not the greatest president is at least willing to put all options on the table, to explore all avenues in combatting an enemy who wishes to use our society’s openness against us. mistakes have been made, but the questions have been asked and our enemies have been served notice that we will persevere.
see, pretty easy, eh?
now quit your whining “waaaaaah lefties only bash bush waaaaaaah” man up and defend your boy.
damn, we lefties have to do everything around here, including defending what’s left of this nation’s dignity.
#22 hahahahahahahahahah!! i almost forgot —
don’t forget that this is mostly likely meant for chinese ears anyway, especially when it comes to cybercrime.
duh.
dude, you are the poster boy right-winger who doesn’t actually understand what his leaders say, he simply accepts it.
and you talk about thinking for yourself.
good grief.
#23 & #24 grog – Woohoo! I’m a poster boy.
I never said I supported Bush in this. Yes, I get tired of all the Bush bashing when clearly it isn’t only him that supports this kind of bullshit. You know, excrement that comes from a bull’s anus.
I said in post #5 I didn’t think it was good idea to allow any bozo with resources go hunt down people in other countries. Why? If we can do it so can they. What are you going to do in the middle of the night when some Chinese (I don’t want to pick on them but grog thinks it is written for them) bounty hunter dressed in black takes you in the middle of the night for posting some pro-democracy info on a Chinese blog.
Or, do you think this was written “for China” so Microsoft can hire a hit squad of private mercs to track down people selling Vista shitware on the streets of Shanghai?
steve-o
Ladies and Gentlemen, Henry Kissinger’s legacy.
I thought the reality based community felt the war in Afghanistan was a mistake, and that 9/11 should have treated as a matter for law enforcement. So what should be done when Afghanistan’s Taliban refuses to extradite Bin Laden?
#22 – You guys remind me of Gomer Pyle on The Andy Griffith show when he was yelling “Citizen’s Arrest Citizen’s Arrest!”.
That was Floyd The Barber, not Gomer…
18
You miss the point completely.
You can be firm in your stance of not taking any shit while at the same time being friendly.
If you and I are hanging together and I steal from you, are you going to put up with it? Of course not. You are going to want it back. If you don’t get it back, what are you going to do?
One thing is certain, however it turns out. We won’t be friends anymore.
25: > Chinese Bounty Hunter
I would wait for my competent government to look into my open window with their security cameras and send the policeman that is patrolling my driveway to ask him to leave.
Barring that, shoot the SOB when my dogs start barking and my alarm system goes off — Dirty Harry-style!
#27, MikeN,
I thought the reality based community felt the war in Afghanistan was a mistake,
No, only the Republicans that didn’t want to go into Afghanistan and allowed Osama bin Laden to escape.
So what should be done when Afghanistan’s Taliban refuses to extradite Bin Laden?
Send in as many troops as we had available. Seal off the escape routes. Capture bin Laden and his lackeys. Kill any effen Taliban or al Quaeda that gets in the way. Too bad the effen Right Wing Nut Neo-con Evangelical Conservative Republicans were too afraid. FYI Mike, bin Laden is a mass murderer and there was no extradition treaty with Afghanistan.
Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick. Your comments become lamer all the time. I don’t know if it’s the Limbaugh Lemonade or the O’Reilly Orange, but sheet, you should change your Kool Aid.