A few hours after a judge ruled that a 14-year-old Jehovah’s Witness sick with leukemia had the right to refuse a blood transfusion that might have helped him, the boy died…
Earlier Wednesday, Skagit County Superior Court Judge John Meyer had denied a motion by the state to force the boy to have a blood transfusion. The judge said the eighth-grader knew “he’s basically giving himself a death sentence.”
“I don’t believe Dennis’ decision is the result of any coercion. He is mature and understands the consequences of his decision,” the judge said during the hearing. “I don’t think Dennis is trying to commit suicide. This isn’t something Dennis just came upon, and he believes with the transfusion he would be unclean and unworthy.”
Gives you a real sense of what life must have been like, say, in the Sixth Century – without the humorous Monty Python bits.
From Keith Burel, who adds, “The wages of superstition is death.”
GOD one way to mess up a world really good.
god one way to mess up people really good
[Geez, make up your mind EJmcn. – ed.]
So if it’s Teeri Schiavo, her statement refusing medical treatment seecondhand from her cheating husband takes precednece over saving life, but if it’s religious belief, why that’s horrible.
I think I was still well enough indoctrinated with Christianity at age 14 that I might have made the same type of faith-based choice to risk death, though thankfully our cult had no specific prohibitions against transfusions or other medical care. Deciding at what age a person can make such a critical decision for themselves has to be gut-wrenching, and I don’t envy anyone involved.
*****
BTW Eideard, I notice that Keith never seems to do his own blogging anymore, though he can’t seem to resist contributing. Is he officially retired from DU now? If so, does that make him eligible for induction into the DU Hall of Infamy? I hereby submit his nomination š
Re: the wages of ignorance is death. Very cute. One could as well say “the wages of not being ignorant is also death,” given the track record.
I prefer a society that leaves one’s religious choices to oneself, rather than dictating them.
I believe everyone should have the right to die. Still though, it turns my stomach to have children deciding to do so based on religion. I don’t really believe that a child is capable of making this decision. I think instead that the parents have made it for him and have killed their child before he was of age to fully understand the ramifications. Of course, I’m sure these parents are just as strongly against abortion as they were for their child’s right to die.
#2 – MikeN,
I think you have it backwards. If it’s Terry Schiavo, religious folks think she must be kept alive against her own wishes that she made clear to her next of kin, i.e. her spouse.
If it’s some child whose mind is infected with religion, then it must be OK to let him die as he wishes.
Religion is the fucked set of beliefs in these two cases, as it is with its stance that abortion should only be legal when state mandated after the 75th trimester. (For those who may not get the joke, the religious right is pushing simultaneously against abortion and for the death penalty. All life is sacred??!!?)
I suppose he was old enough to make that choice so I feel this was just.
Unfortunately for that poor boy, he grew up in a family of ancient religious rituals that cost him his life.
it is painful to know that there are some faith traditions out there that encourage the abstaining from treatment developed through the knowledge, gifts, and talents given to us by the Ultimate. However as I look at the case I have to wonder.
1. The Blood Transfusions “might” have helped, there is never a certainty and there is always the risk of complications and problems when receiving a transfusions, I know as I have signed way too many consent forms for receiving blood in my lifetime, and also know from my family who I am the lone sheep as they are all in the medical prof, though I am in the counseling field. So thus even if received, he may have died.
2. If he had taken the blood and it had helped, it does not mean the best would come about. If he truly believed he would become unclean and unworthy and this was forced upon him it could lead to serious mental health problems, including some that might lead him to take his own life.
Thus there are no easy answers, though we can love, challenge the political, cultural and religious systems that lead to broken relationships, and unhealthy attitudes and way of living and sustain and support the religious, cultural, and political systems that recognize the worth of all persons and leads to the healing and reconciliation of all of humanity and creation and moves us past the point of those systems that lead to brokness.
Belief in organized religion is a mental disorder. This is one way to rid the planet of such stupidity. I for one encourage more of it.
Not competent enough to decide if he wants a bj, since he may have been coerced into it by an elder who he respects, but competent enough to decide if he wants to die, in spite of the fact that almost all of the elders that he would know have pressured him most of his life to believe their fairy tale.
The laws of this country after being filtered though the Christian mullah’s never fail to amaze me…with their constant war cry..”Death before sex!!” (or any kind of fun, really…for example, see at what age you can sign up to die, and when you can buy a beer without facing jail time…).
That being said, I’m afraid I believe the judge is right. I just wish they would apply the same logic to some of these boy being “molested” by the occasional teacher. The judges don’t seem to care what the boys say in those cases. “No, you can’t save a person you like from 20 years in a cell, but I’ll let you die if you want to….”.
M Scott, well put. Unfortunately there’s nothing anyone can do, because religion has been given too much power in all societies.
Far more healthy children are killed every day by religious strife. The world is f*cked until all religion is legislated to not be organized, just as street gangs are. … a pipe dream.
Darwin was so right.
Modern medicine has saved my fragile ass more than once. Isn’t there a religion out there that makes some sense?
and it’s disturbing that the judge let this happen.
“Earlier Wednesday, Skagit County Superior Court Judge John Meyer had denied a motion by the state to force the boy to have a blood transfusion. The judge said the eighth-grader knew āheās basically giving himself a death sentence.ā”
Like an eighth grader has any realization of death? I think not.
#6 – Dallas,
Strange that you feel so confident that he was old enough to make such a choice. I have very mixed feelings about a state that mandates taking one’s meds (or other medical treatment).
However, as a 14 year old, he was too young to get married, too young to even have consensual sex, too young to join the military, too young to drive and way too young for the toughest of all decisions, to have a drink.
So, why are you so confident that he was old enough to decide to die?
Misanthropic Scott said:
So, why are you so confident that he was old enough to decide to die?
—–
He was a Christian. That’s reason enough in book.
We don’t have all the information. The child had a fatal disease that apparently wasn’t responding to therapy well. The whole blood transfusion may have done little. If the judge was told this would actually saved his life, the decision may have been rendered differently.
>>He was a Christian. Thatās reason enough in
>>book.
Fuckin’ A! All Christians must perish! Death to the fidels!!
I think you need to go back to Atheist Sunday School.
“Unfortunately for that poor boy, he grew up in a family of ancient religious rituals that cost him his life.”
JW’s do not belong to any ancient religions. They are one of many new religions that came out of the US in the 19th century. The Christian Scientists (who also have a problem with medicine for religious reasons) is another. Mormons and 7th Day Adventists are also major American religions, but they are OK with most life saving medical treatments.
I have known few enough adults in my life with sufficient knowledge, experience or reasoning ability to grasp the issues involved here. No 14-year-old is. And the law needs to presume that a mentally and emotionally immature person is not competent to make such a decision, just as it presumes their incompetence to make other such decisions, ones with relatively trivial potential consequences.
Many nonreligionists, most antireligionists, and even a number of thoughtful, reasonable religionists will agree that exposing children to religious intdoctrination that they do not possess the maturity, wisdom or knowledge to judge, is brainwashing, and as such, is a form of child abuse.
Take my word for it; if people were only exposed to the irrationalities of religion AFTER reaching adulthood, in less than 2 generations, there would no longer be such warped, deranged individuals as suicide bombers – or people who believe such moranic claptrap as do Jehovah’s Witnesses – or Christian Scientists – or YECs – or ………
It would be the biggest, most positive change in human society in history. And if it doesn’t happen soon, one or another lunatic, fueled by primitive unsane fairytales, is going to destroy a significant portion of humanity, if not all of us.
Darwinism in action….
Hmm. Maybe more to this than meets the eye. His parents (non-JWs) live in Boise, but Aunt Dianna (JW) who lives in Seattle, is his legal guardian.
Things are seldom what they seem…
#19. Darwin was a devout, life long, Unitarian Christian. He would be appalled that his name and natural philosophy would be used in a cynical context to describe a human child consciously choosing death before abandonment of faith.
Scott:
(For those who may not get the joke, the religious right is pushing simultaneously against abortion and for the death penalty. All life is sacred??!!?)
Here’s the ‘logic’ – abortion takes an innocent life (ignoring Original Sin as dogma in some sects), whereas the criminal is an evil person who deserved death (ignoring the ‘we hate the sin but love the sinner’ dogma/claim).
Besides, I think you may have already seen the list of ‘capital crimes’ in the Bible mentioned.
/Devil’s advocate off
J/P=?
Evidence is the kid had a 70% chance of survival for 5 years with the treatment.
So, if religion were not involved in the case, should a rational mature 14yo be allowed to make this medical decision for himself?
If not suffering from a mental defect, I think everyone would say yes?
So, the question is still open.
He should have been a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and followed the teachings of Pesto and Marinara. As a good Pestonian he would have been alive to sprinkle the word of the Parmesanians.
>>Evidence is the kid had a 70%
>>chance of survival for 5 years
>>with the treatment.
Mr. Bobbalina, Mr. Bob Bobbalina, you’re subtly changing the nature of what the doctors actually said. To quote: “Doctors had given Dennis a a 70 percent chance of surviving the next five years with the transfusions and other treatment“.
We have no way of knowing what the “other treatment” was, and how much of a therepeutic benefit it might have conferred.
JWs have no issues with “other medical treatment”, only blood transfusions.
And I have never heard of blood transfusions as a “treatment” for leukemia. Stem cell implantation from a bone-marrow transplant or umbilical cord blood (not whole blood, which is what JWs do not abide) after radiation or chemotherapy, perhaps, but I’m not familiar with any effective therapeutic options that treat leukemia with blood transfusions.
#16
“Fuckinā A! All Christians must perish! Death to the fidels!!”
OR, we could go pagan and feed the christians to the lions.
I think this judge should be kicked out because the kid is that, a kid, a minor.
MM–right you are. I didn’t check the accuracy of what was tangential to my post and had no effect on the point being made. But accuracy is to be valued, no matter how many additional keystrokes it takes.
I’m just guessing, as I haven’t made a religion of believing in modern medicine, but I’m thinking JW’s probably don’t allow any organ/tissue transplants? That would contaminate their body a whole lot more than mere use of blood that would be cycled out of the body in a few weeks.
Re above post, in fact, “all” religions indoctrinate/brain-wash their young. Thats why the Hindu god does not reveal himself in the middle of Tennessee and vice-versa. Kinda makes it look like a social phenomenom rather than a spiritual/revelational one?
But “evidence” is the devils challenge to faith. Best ignore whats obvious.
>>I didnāt check the accuracy of what
>>was tangential to my post and had
>>no effect on the point being made.
Oh, but it may have had an effect, Mister Bobbalina. It may have been the reason why the kid died.
>>but Iām thinking JWās probably donāt
>>allow any organ/tissue transplants?
You would be engaging in stinkin’ thinkin’ then. It’s only blood they object to (and whole blood at that). It’s not an issue of “contamination”, it’s based on Acts 15:28, 29, and also on Leviticus 17:11,12, “For the life of the flesh is in the blood … No soul of you shall eat blood,” and of Genesis 9:3, 4, which they understand to be the first instance of “the Bibleās clear prohibition against taking blood into the body.” (btw, I am not a Jehova’s Witness; that info came from The Source [Wikiwhatever..]).
>>Thats why the Hindu god does not
>>reveal himself in the middle of
>>Tennessee and vice-versa.
Ah, Bobster. Even an infidel such as yourself should know that the Lord works in mysterious ways. Has it occurred to you that perhaps God is not a fat guy with eight arms, or a bearded, white-haired guy shooting lightning bolts at fornicators and homo-secks-uals? Perhaps “He” is simply a power greater than ourselves, one that works for the betterment of all creation. A power that reveals itself in different ways to different people (perhaps in ways that would have cultural meaning for the individual).
Not necessary for you to believe that, however. In this great country of ours, you’re free to have whatever religious beliefs you like, even (and especially) if that religious belief is that God does not exist. Ahhh. God bless America!
I love you MM. So full of spunk.
And thanks for the JW info. Nice to see their insanity is very narrowly drawn in this respect.
#17 – ArianneB,
Excellent point. Older religions, such as Judaism actually explicitly state that health comes before specific religious considerations. Diabetics who are religious Jews do not need to fast on Yom Kippur. Starving Jews need not worry about whether food is kosher, etc. So, perhaps this lack of concern for health in this life is a recent thing. I’d never thought of that before.
#22 – John Paradox,
Yes, I am aware of many of the places where the bible says Thou Shalt Kill. I am not, however, aware of anyplace in the bible that actually states that abortion is wrong. Certainly, the scholars from a much closer time period to the bible authors, when writing the Talmud, thought that the fetus did not become a full person until birth and stated so in no uncertain terms.
So, I don’t see where in the bible anything states that all life is sacred. In fact, one might argue that life is actually more precious to atheists because when it’s over, it’s really over.