If the Video with Heidi Klum cheered you up, this will definitely bring you down, Happy Thanksgiving.
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OK, this no longer works, FYI.
But, as to torture – I don’t see the problem. The geneva conventions should only apply to people who will apply them to us.
Terrorists, Iran, the Taliban – they don’t care – they’ll torture, suicide bomb and kill us with no concern for rules. If some torture helps to get some data, or scares some of the wackos into thinking we’ll make their lives hell for trying to hurt Americans – I’m all for it.
The constitution is for AMERICANS – not the world. It doesn’t apply to non-citizens, and this includes those that would try to kill us OR try to illegally invade us.
I’m sick of hearing about how it’s “un-constitutional” to do this or that, when it’s being done to enemies of the country and other non-citizens. I want my government to protect me from external harm, and by any means necessary.
To sum up:
Not a citizen = no protections of law. Period.
[Is your family motto by any chance ‘America über alles’? – ed.]
If you are one of the six or seven people left who still believes Bush when he says that America doesn’t torture, then I suggest you have someone lock you in your refrigerator for a week.
THEN tell me America doesn’t torture.
By the government’s own report, the solitary confinement cells in Gitmo measure 20 inch by 4 foot by 4 foot!
It isn’t just the small size — it’s the dimensions that are torture. You can’t stand up. You can’t stretch out. If you’re a wide body (like me) — you’re shoulders are wider than 20 inches, so you can’t even lay down flat with your feet raised.
Just imagine being in a box like that — FOR A FRIGGIN’ WEEK — and tell me America doesn’t torture.
>> tchamp2 said, “Not a citizen = no protections of law. Period”
Spoken like a consummate ugly American.
How about Geneva Conventions and simple human decency. Are those just for Americans too?
As to torture:
how many of these macho Jack Bauer wannabes have ever known an actual, on the line Intelligence agent/employee?
J/P=?
1,
Ah yes, the old “they do it, we’ll do it too” argument. Always a classic, and always refutable. Do you WANT to lower yourself? Do you WANT your nation to be compared to despotic regimes?
BTW, Jose Padilla WAS an American citizen. But, he was tortured.
I see some improvement to the site in the background as there are only
“Failed validation, 278 Errors”
instead of the 312 errors a few days ago. The page still aligns right which I’m sure wasn’t the goal of the developer and it does it in both IE and Firefox.
Let’s see those two great words ” No errors!” one day…
>> John Paradox said, how many of these macho Jack Bauer wannabes have ever known an actual, on the line Intelligence agent/employee?
Living in the middle east since before 911, I never saw “24”.
I finally got to see some episodes this summer.
I was SHOCKED at how profoundly anti-American that show is. I’d deduced it was subversive but I was really surprised to see what an openly anti-constitutional treatise it is.
Have Americans collectively wet their pants and retreated into their bunkers after 911?
God save America.
>>The constitution is for AMERICANS – not
>>the world. It doesn’t apply to non-citizens
What the fuck fascist regime did you grow up under? I’d think maybe it was Dumbya’s, but I assume that you’re too old to have been born 8 or 9 years ago.
“We’re sorry this video is no longer available”
Looks like somebody got it pulled off of
YouTube.
I’ll bet its showing up on other sites.
“The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.” (wish I knew who said that!”
C
#8 MM – Based on some of the comments on this blog I’m sure some of the are 8 or 9.
Once again let’s all pile on Bush. BDS
FWIW I don’t support torture. I’m not talking about college hazing like Abu Ghraib.
I’m not talking about water boarding either.
I’m against physical torture that leaves someone permanently maimed or scarred.
Lest we forget, I’m not FOR hacking someone’s head off on video either.
Sorry to tell some of you that George Washington was asked by his people, during the Revolutionary War, if it was okay to torture British POWs. Washington said that he would not allow the torture of any POWs, as it would tarnish the reputation of his army.
I think that the Bill of Rights pertains to EVERYONE, not just citizens of our great nation. If we discriminate against one, it is an offense to all of us, and all that we stand for.
If there are only protections of law for those of us who are citizens, than there is NO law for others. What about INTERNATIONAL law, which, according to the US Constitution, is binding law in this country, as long as we signed it. The Geneva Conventions are, in fact, US law.
Personally, I am sick and tired of all this xenophobia. People have to wake up. They are really doing this because of the class war which has been going on forever. Those in power, the people with the money, never have to follow the rules. That’s where I feel some of us are confused.
I found another link to the video here:
http://tinyurl.com/2yv3b9
[There is no need to follow this link. I have fixed the video and it now loads directly from the source. Please use Tinyurl in the future – ed.]
>>I’m not talking about college hazing
>>like Abu Ghraib.I’m not talking about
>>water boarding either.
If you don’t think that waterboarding (or what went on is torture, you are one sick bastard. Do you belong to the Aryan Nation or the KKK by any chance? You don’t have to cut or burn someone to torture them.
Happy Thanksgiving.
woops.
I meant to say “what went on at Abu Ghraib, for that matter)”
#12 (or anyone)
what file type is that? what player is needed?
#1, it’s obvious that you have never studied US history or the US Constitution.
You know there is a Constitution but you do not know why.
That vid is more boring than anything
#5 – Padilla should not have been treated as an enemy combatant. I agree – he was a citizen and any citizen deserves the rights afforded to that citizen.
That doesn’t apply to some yahoo from the caves of Iran that wants to kill my wife.
#8 – I have a wife and daughter – so you would be right to assume I’m not 8 or 9.
What I do know is this – it’s not facist to attack and destroy you enemy – by any means necessary.
The ‘laws’ of war only apply to people who will also abide by them.
#11 – read the Geneva convention. It explicitly states that it ONLY applies to signatories. The people I listed above never signed.
As to International “law” – I’ll leave you with a quote from one of my Political Science professors at the University – “The only International law is that there isn’t one”.
I always liked that statement. As to the class war and the money thing – that sounds like a personal problem. My parents didn’t make a lot, but my dad worked hard to give us the money to get educated. I worked hard and earned a scholarship. I now make in my 20’s more than my Dad has ever made – even adjusted for inflation.
It’s all about what you want to do. Those that complain about money and power are always jealous since they refuse to work hard enough to get it themselves. You don’t have the right to money – get off your lazy you-know-what and earn it.
18,
Well, your government tortured a US citizen. And what happens when your government uses rendition or torture on innocents? Is that OK, cause they’re from a Cave? Or, say, Canada, like Arar? There is no justification for torture. Unless you LIKE torture for sake of it, there are much more effective ways to get information. Most of it requires hard work but has real accurate payoffs. Of course, hard work is not the ‘Merican way now is it?
Oh, and no one wants to torture your wife. Except probably for your kids, if you have any… But, that’s part of growing up.
#13 – torture is killing my wife if I don’t talk, or cutting off my fingers. Last I checked we aren’t doing any of that.
A little physical or mental pain isn’t torture. It’s quite simple – don’t try to undermine my country and I won’t try to stop you.
What the bloody hell? I got the audio before I could see the video it was associated with. It was shocking. Was that the intended effect?
#16 – Not only have a read and understood my constitution (of the USA, fyi), but I have read all the federalist papers.
They can be best described as the “Here, this is what it all means” papers. Once you read and understand those you realize that we really have gotten off track. Just not in the ways you think.
#21 – you made me laugh with the wife/kids joke.
As to your other points though, I have to disagree with most.
First – we agree – Padilla should have been given due process and full legal protections. That should be remedied, and I believe the supreme court did so.
As to the others – if a Canadian is believed to have info that could save American lives – then yes, I am fully for doing what it takes to get that from him/her. Now, in the case of the Geneva convention, we agreed to not do that to Canadians, so we have to be careful in regards to the methods we can use. That’s why I’m against the Geneva convention – just like gun laws, only law abiding people follow them.
As to waterboarding – seriously, making you THINK you are going the drown isn’t torture. Cutting off your head is. I mean, lets get definitions down at least.
I think that is our major problem in this country – we want to be free and able to live as we want, but solidly refuse to allow those whose job it is to protect us do their job. The techniques illustrated in this video, although they try to make me feel bad, are not torture.
Funny side note – I had a guy in DC try to scare me out of eating meat a couple years back. My dad was along for the trip and the idiot guy asked us “How does this make you feel” (a picture of an animal being killed), to which my father replied “Hungry”.
Classic.
#19 you say: “it’s not facist to attack and destroy you enemy – by any means necessary”
No, but it IS evil.
The end cannot justify the means. If we accept that WE BECOME the enemy.
If you cannot see that, then you are indeed lost and quite evil.
Cursor_
#26 – I don’t think that you understand.
It’s not evil to stop your enemy. Evil is running two planes into a complex full of civilians.
No military on earth tries harder to avoid civilian deaths than the USA. Even to the point of it hurting our own men (think about the times Mosques weren’t destroyed when they should have been for harboring the enemy).
Evil is sitting by and doing nothing while others attempt to kill and destroy everything this country has stood for.
And when destroying the enemy – the ends do justify the means. Sometimes you have to break some eggs to get that yummy breakfast. Just like sometimes you have to kill some really bad people, or even torture them, in order to bring a true peace.
Peace only comes through strength. Not through cool banners and signs that you wave around. Sometimes you have to kill a bunch of them before they stop trying to kill you.
Read some history – had to kill quite a few Japanese and Germans (and many civilians) to stop them. I know I don’t lose any sleep over it.
“Have Americans collectively wet their pants and retreated into their bunkers after 911?”
yep
#30 – first off, when I have a day off, I just like to type it seems.
As to your comment – no one would be happier to see all the faux conservatives go down. If you want to be “gay”, then fine – but don’t be a secret “gay” guy. Don’t try to represent my party or beliefs while secretly doing everything against them.
So, in short – I’m ok with these guys getting the quick ride out of town as much as the next guy. I hold no loyalty to party except where the party, or the politician, votes as I want. They are just men/women – not gods or even particularly special.
#13 MM – I won’t resort to calling you any names (other than the usual political references) because it doesn’t accomplish anything.
No, I’m not a member of the all white boy fraternity and I can’t stand their BS.
No, waterboarding isn’t the same as cutting off body parts. You may want to dig up the video of Daniel Pearl to see if you tell the difference. I doubt it with your rose coloered glasses on.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours back at you.
One of the things I’m thankful for is our good men and women treating terrorists like dogs on a leash and making them feel like they are a few feet under water.