theRabidQuill » Blog Archive » Frontal Assault on Freedom: FBI Raids Liberty Dollar
Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:
I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.
For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.
We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.
But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.
This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.
I’m not sure what is going on here but I suspect that the assoication with Ron Paul has something to do with it. I have noticed that the right-wing talk show hosts who are fronts for the Bush wing of the Republican party began yesterday to smear Paul by associating his with Neo-Nazis, white supremicists and skinheads. It is interesting to watch this phenomenon. Now this. Apparently someone thinks he is an actual threat to the machine.
What is the crux of this story? Were Ron Paul supporters making money? Are they using precious metals to go back to the gold standard instead of market based dollar value? Why does the FBI raid an operation like this, wouldn’t you just get a court order to stop them from manufacturing? What the hell?!
I was only half listening last week to a commercial on tv for some private mint willing to sell its product as “legal currency.” That caught my ear as only the Feds can print/press money?
Pretty straight forward and sensible violation of the law if that is what this group was doing?
Ron Paul is so low in the polls, hard to believe anyone in power would take him seriously?—Seriously!
Many of his soundbites sound good in the abstact, but his actual ((lack of)) programs to back them up are politically unacceptable to most people.
The unfortunate part is that Ron Paul is associated with David Duke and the White Supremacists at Stormfront.org.
Ron Paul has been asked to renounce these associations and he has refused.
Shameful….
My bet is they are going to get them on a fraud charge of some kind. To think this was done because these guys, who were basically nothing but precious metals dealers, were in some way thought of as a threat to the currency or the nation is laughable.
What got them in trouble is probably the claim that it is, “100% Backed.”
#2 – They werent trying to counterfit money, just create an alternate currency, and use it at retailers that take it (but not try and pass it off as federal reserve notes, or US coins.)
Its two parties voluntarily using an item of perceived value to trade for other items. Stretching it, It would be like the feds busting down your door for trading someone a cow for a DS and some games.
So if you own a paper certificate (or digital version) then you’re a criminal? Or if you print paper certificates? For example, if a corporation sells bearer-bonds? Or stock certificates?
How about PayPal? Or SL Linden dollars?
I wonder if it has something to do with the idea that the utilization of this type of currency amounts to bartering, and bartering has tax implications associated with it. You can’t mess with the Federal Government’s ability to tax people.
I don’t know anything about this for sure, but that would be my guess.
#9 I don’t think that’s it. Had it been it would have been SS (or what ever the Treasury law enforcement branch is now) instead of the FBI raiding them.
Interesting post on another blog.
http://tinyurl.com/37trh6
Well, since ye olde Constitution has never been amended to change the requirement that legal tender in the United States must be gold and silver coins, I’d say that our government has been running an illegal money operation for quite some time.
Let’s put these pieces together:
1. Shady organization run by a former printer of novelty Hawaiian kingdom money sells paper currency via the Internet using credit cards (i.e. real actual U.S. money).
2. Shady organization run by a former printer of novelty Hawaiian kingdom money hops on Raul Paul Internet fame conspiracy loon bandwagon to pimp the above scam.
3. Shady organization run by a former printer of novelty Hawaiian kingdom money sends out email chain letter claiming government conspiracy and floats URL of legal defense fund on Digg, Reddit, and other places.
Part of that letter (reprinted below) says that they don’t even know “what you are owed.”
“We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed,” von NotHaus wrote in the e-mail, which was sent to Liberty Dollar customers.
Yup. Sounds legit. There’s nothing to see here. Everyone keep moving.
Hey sea lawyer, Where does it specify gold and silver coins?
This is what the US Constitution says about the currency of the USA:
Section 8: The Congress shall have power…To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States
To which “constitution” are you referring, Sea”Lawyer”?
Hmm, if true this is suspicious. First they raided Curt Weldon’s house before the elections, something they try to avoid. It just so happened to be the Congressman investigating Sandy Berger’s theft from the National Archives, as well as lapses in security before 9/11(he claimed that one government program, Able Danger, knew about Mohamed Atta beforehand.) It also just so happened that his opponent raised plenty of money with fundraisers held by sandy Berger and other friends, and was the only person mentioned by Bill Clinton by name in his rant against Chris Wallace.
Now we have a candidate that advocates a return to a gold standard just as power brokers are devaluing the dollar, and is calling for a withdrawal from most military adventures. Also he is supported by plenty of conspiracy theorists with regards to 9/11.
The limit for using gold and silver as tender for debt is a limit only imposed on the states.
Its debatable whether or not our money should be based on some asset or precious metal or something, but it doesn’t seem to be a requirement in the constitution.
#14, 15, keep reading down to section 10.
Section 8 grants Congress the power to coin money. Section 10 denies states that power and then requires that tender for payment of debts be gold and silver coin.
#17, well, yes you could debate the matter, but I will bring up some points.
1. Most commerce is intrastate, which is not subject to the regulation of the federal government (at least by design, liberals disagree).
2. States were denied the power to coin money, yet were explicitly granted the power to designate legal tender with the requirement that it be gold and silver.
3. The Congress is granted the sole power to coin a unified money to be used among the states, yet nowhere is it mentioned any power for it to make money legal tender for payment of debts… and even if we are to infer that it does, are we to just decide that it gets to define tender under a different set of rule than the states?
4. If the Congress does have the authority to define legal tender (which I’m not really arguing it doesn’t), then that tender would only be valid for commerce that it has the authority to regulate: interstate commerce.
Great to see it took a total of 16 posts before 911 conspiracy theories were brought up.
#18 Sea Lawyer
Article 1 section 10 refers to the states not the federal government. Because the Constitution was written in plain English and not any sort of lawerese the subject of the sentence in Section 10 “the States” does not change and therefore does not apply to the Federal Government who is charged with issuing coin. The States are held responsible for the payment of their debt in Gold and Silver, outside of Federal coinage.
It always seemed strange to me that ‘precious metals’ are really just shiny rocks. They truly have little value, unless you’re in the market for a shiny rock. A shiny rock can’t provide you with food, a shiny rock makes for lousy clothing (minimal insulation value), and a bunch of shiny rocks make for a bad shelter (compressed dirt, bricks, or at least more common rocks work better).
Why have people placed so much emphasis on gold, silver, and platinum? It is because they are rare metals? So what? The best uses I’ve found for these metals is in electronics and dentistry/medical applications. A circular shiny rock on a finger doesn’t make a marriage cheat-proof, nor does it create love. I won’t even get into diamonds and other jewels (shiny translucent rocks). I won’t venture into the territory that is paper money except to say this: my cousin asked how we can be in debt, if all we need to do is print more money…
Hopefully, some day, we will evolve past the need for ‘money’. That is one of the best ideals I’ve seen in Star Trek.
This incident brings up one of the most important rules about business: don’t mess with the Eagle. If the “coins” had been sold as jewelry, no problem. When they’re promoted as an alternate currency, they’re messing with the Constitution. Read Section 8.
@ #21
I agree totally, I’ve never understood the importance placed on these metals. I imagine it’s just been so understood that gold is ‘valuable’, when really it has no real utility value. If hte world come to Mad Max, Black Gold will be more like Black Platinum. Gold will be more like Useless Shit.
Fuck Ron Paul, I sick and tired of hearing this guy’s name.
The makers of the Liberty Dollar were trying to sell gold at above market price by distorting the nature of the coins and using Ron Paul’s name. A coin printed by a private mint is not legal tender, but their advertising implies that it is (while sneaking in a disclaimer about only having value through barter). Also, they announced the “Ron Paul Dollar” as a “surprise” for the congressman – they never asked him about it first, because they say that would require them to count profits as a contribution…which is a lame excuse, in my opinion, to cover the fact that they were using someone’s name and image without their permission.
Anyway, to poster #3: The allegations you’ve stated are floating around in many forms. Since Ron Paul is supported by some individuals in so many groups (religious, ethnic, political), its very easy to pick one out you don’t like and try to discredit the message on those grounds. I’ve seen him attacked for being backed by Jews, Muslims, white supremacists, liberals, conservatives, whatever. If he’s so racist like some would claim, how did he get more diverse support than any other Republican? Easy, he isn’t pandering to any of the groups – he simply supports individualism & rule by law. The populist theory is that people are only members of a sub-group would have these groups line up in perfect obedience behind a candidate that promises their group the most. Individualism rejects this populist notion, and it means that everyone can benefit from his election without him having to make promises to any groups. Not to mention, passively receiving an unsolicited donation is quite a bit different than say, hiring convicted felons (Clinton) or suspected felons (Giuliani).
#21 says, “It always seemed strange to me that ‘precious metals’ are really just shiny rocks. They truly have little value…”
It always seemed strange to me that ‘federal reserve notes’ are really just cotton and fancy paper. They truly have little value, even less than shiny rocks as we can make electronics out of shiny rocks, and origami our of paper
Well, the Ron Paul dollars mentioned are actually copper, not gold or silver. But the point is, they took *everything*. So we don’t know if the raid was aimed at stopping the funding for Ron Paul. The organization is in the middle of a lawsuit against the US mint. My guess, the raid was a result of this lawsuit.
The mint is under the mistaken belief that they are the only party allowed to issue money. The Constitution is clear that Congress has that power. That the several states do not have that power. And that money (including Federal currency) must be based on gold or silver. Paper money was considered a threat to liberty. It is a form of theft which robs us of property, which is the foundtion of liberty.
The federal reserve (and all the banks that comprise it) are the sponsors of this sham and will resort to great evils (as they have in the past) to keep the sham in place and keep people ignorant of it.
Ron Paul is a threat, real money is a threat, and peace dollars are a threat. They must stop it, but can the people take back their money?
#28-30
The Federal Government is the only entity in the U.S. under the constitution that can mint coinage. Private entities are allowed to issue currency if it is backed by Gold or Silver. Now deep in the Disclaimer of the Liberty Dollar website they do make the claim that they are not legal tender but way before that they give you plenty of tips on how to use the coins as “voluntary barter.” So the fine makers of the Liberty Dollar are saying one thing and promoting their product as another.
So if someone wants to pay a premium to buy a “collectible” copper coin with no real value other than the company that you bought it from promises that its value is pegged to the dollar and it is backed by gold that they have somewhere then sure go for it. But don’t be surprised when the Feds come questioning.
As far as the Federal Reserve and Fiat currency. What, getting past the conspiracy theories, is the problem? Do you know what the Fed actually does? Do you know why it was created? Do you know of economic collapse before the move off of the Gold Standard? So other than pointing and saying there is evil afoot what is the exact criticism?
2
> Many of his soundbites sound good in the abstact, but his actual
> ((lack of)) programs to back them up are politically unacceptable to
> most people.
Why?
25
> Fuck Ron Paul, I sick and tired of hearing this guy’s name.
Why?
29
>Ron Paul is a threat
Why?
Forget about Ron Paul and whether the money is legal or not for a minute. This story is only being covered in the blog-o-sphere, based on a press release the owner sent out.
The question is DID THIS REALLY HAPPEN? or is this guy walking away from his business with $20 million dollars and everyone else is left with a worthless (unless bartered) coin or piece of paper?
I have yet to see a link on Google News/Digg.com from a news agency, just blogs and random websites. Dvorak.org/blog is closest to legitimate news source I have seen.
#13 – Hey Pax, I have a question. Here is your statement:
Oops, I tried to quote this but it didn’t work:
Part of that letter (reprinted below) says that they don’t even know “what you are owed.”
“We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed,” von NotHaus wrote in the e-mail, which was sent to Liberty Dollar customers.
Yup. Sounds legit. There’s nothing to see here. Everyone keep moving.