Out of tune with the American public?
The cynic in me is thinking about where did the poll take place, because I thought that not many people know what waterboarding is. I think it’s better not to think about what it would have meant if the poll had shown the opposite result. However the results are not that encouraging.
Poll results: Waterboarding is torture – cnn.com: A majority of Americans consider waterboarding a form of torture, but some of those say it’s OK for the U.S. government to use the technique, according to a poll released Tuesday.
Sure, as long as it’s being done in secret prisons in foreign countries there’s no problem…
Asked whether they think waterboarding is a form of torture, more than two-thirds of respondents, or 69 percent, said yes; 29 percent said no.
Asked whether they think the U.S. government should be allowed to use the procedure to try to get information from suspected terrorists, 58 percent said no; 40 percent said yes.
In the procedure, water is used on restrained prisoners to make them feel like they are drowning.
For a demonstration of waterboarding, this previous post has a video showing the ‘procedure’ (the video could be upsetting for some of our readers).
Very interesting
I say if it works use it , the guy didnt die and had no long lasting physical effects
I wonder what takes place in other countries that want information from their captives? With all of the attention to ‘water boarding’ what about the other methods of ‘persuasion’?
OK no ‘water boarding’ but we can do everything else…
And that’s OK by me.
Ever tour Europe and visit the ‘guest rooms’ in the basement of the castle? or even in the Abby?
Get over it.
Its sad that they even have to debate if its “torture” or not. In 1947 the U.S. tried someone as a war criminal because of waterboarding…other people have been charged because of waterboarding.
Torture me long enough and i’ll sign a blank piece of paper saying I did whatever you wanted me to say I did, so does that mean we are safer?
Those who value well-being of their enemies more than well-being of their own – don’tlast too long and always fall.
“Torture me long enough and i’ll sign a blank piece of paper saying I did whatever you wanted me to say I did, so does that mean we are safer?”
Of course not.
Same as not torturing terrorists doesn’t make you safer either.
“use the procedure to try to get information from suspected terrorists”
“suspected terrorists” here means “anyone the President says he suspects of being a terrorist”, which could be anyone from you to Hillary Clinton.
I’m sure El Presidente and his neocons suspects many, many MANY americans to be potential terrorists – yet how many americans exactly were arrested, jailed and tortured to day, according to your sources, #5? 😀
Waterboarding without representation. Now THAT’s the real issue. I say, let the gummint waterboard anybody, any time, as long as the person gets their day in court.
Did you sign this?
Yessir.
Were you waterboarded?
Yessir.
Will the prosecutor please approach the bench.
What is wrong with the United States of America? Decades of cold war under the threat of extinction, but getting the panties in a wad over a raghead in Pakistan.
#1 and #2.
You guys will make good boot lickers for the NWO.
Wow. I tried this at the office with my co-worker and we ended up at Burger King as I wanted.
#5 – Yeah, but in the case of Hillary, the suspicion is accurate.
Buwhahahahahaahahahaah!!!
Asked whether they think waterboarding is a form of torture, more than two-thirds of respondents, or 69 percent, said yes; 29 percent said no.
Asked who wants to ride in a firetruck, more than two-thirds of respondents, or 69 percent, said I do; 29 percent said I do not.
Who gives a fuck what the average Joe thinks. Never mind that this question was answered a long time ago, and never mind that the answer is obvious and 29 percent are morons, but the question is for legal experts, the judiciary, top ranking military officials and Congress. It’s not for “the man on the street” or the guy with an overwhelming compulsion to answer a survey.
#4 – Those who value well-being of their enemies more than well-being of their own – don’t last too long and always fall.
Those who value their own Constitution, laws and their civilization’s ethical standards over the assorted Jethros and Gomers who just want to kill brown people tends to still be standing after the fall.
Torture doesn’t work. The experts have been saying it over and over. And even if it did, there just isn’t enough faith in the Intelligence community to believe we are doing anything except grabbing every Abdul we spot on the street and beating the shit out of him.
We were so justified after 9/11. No matter what sins we had committed in the Middle East, no matter what legitimate beefs the terrorists had, (and we were sinful and they had real beefs), nothing we did justified 9/11 and aggressive military action was called for.
To bad we squandered it, ignored the real enemies, and went on to a failing boondoggle in Iraq.
There will never be a win in Iraq because Iraq was never where the war should have been in the first place. Now we are just bullies and brutes and until we have a new administration and a policy of fixing the damage we have done, we will not have international credibility.
#4 Those who value well-being of their enemies more than well-being of their own – don’tlast too long and always fall.
George Washington’s standing orders were to severely punish, and in most cases summarily execute, any colonial soldier who mistreated or tortured a prisoner of war. Somehow he managed to win anyhow.
#12 unbelievable… have you ever took any trip out of USA somewhere else than to Canada or tourists resorts in other countries?
YOU (americans) have enemies basically everywhere all over the world!
You can count countries that are *really* friendly to yous in a low single digits LOL Its a PR disaster on a countr scale, which started long time ago, maybe with the “cigar dipping” president… so what beef or sins are you talking about LOL
ANyways, Im not for tortures :-O
All I’m saying is that you people are really stupid just for the sheer fact of discussing it like torturing was some kind of mass-used tactic in the US forces. How many cases of torturing enemies have been there exactly? 100? OK, make it times 10 just to factor in all those “undiscovered cases” – yet its still insignificant. But you worry more about well-being of those few unlucky enemies than about well-being and safety of 200,000 of your own soldiers and millions of your fellow citizens… well, good going there 😉 just another small step to deconstructing Americamn Empire the way I see it 🙂
Don’t often cross post, but this belongs here. To hell with waterboarding – use cookies and pee:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,308478,00.html
As someone who went through SERE School (Warner Springs site), as a military aviator, I myself didnt get the waterboard, but one of my team members did. Ill still never forget the freaked out look on this guys face afterwards, when he described what happened, what it was like, he was actually choking back tears. Even though he knew the military wouldnt do anything to hurt their investment, IE:him, he said it was still the most terrifying experiance he had been through.
#14 – But you worry more about well-being of those few unlucky enemies than about well-being and safety of 200,000 of your own soldiers and millions of your fellow citizens…
You are a moron with nothing but bile to spew and no idea what the hell you are talking about. Saying that torture doesn’t work… Saying the effective leadership is leadership that sets the example… saying that our selected President was wrong on every count… has absolutely nothing to do with my (or anyone else’s) concern for soldiers or citizens of this country…
But since you imply that you are not an American, perhaps I’ll take a cue from you and value your particular life less than that of the other six and half billion people on the planet. After all, you ain’t one of us, so fuck you. Is that the winning attitude that will restore this nation to its former glory?
You really are typical american idiot, OFTLO 🙂
You want to “restore this nation to its former glory” yet you oppose everything “this nation” did in the past for its glory LOL
Obviously you need to fight and enforce *your* beliefs onto others, but first you have to believe them and be ready to die for them *yourself*.
No war was ever won by those who were right or stronger or bigger, but always by those who *believed theyre right * and were ready to die for it.
Thats exactly why US haven’t won any war since WWII and thats why this supposedly strongest and largest military in the world failed so miserably, and will fail in Iraq again too. The soldiers don’t believe in their war, the people for whom they supposed to fight for don’t believe in it and don’t support it, and no one is willing to die for it 🙂
And yes, your pathetic and – yes, unpatriotic – beliefs of valuing everyone elses lives equally as your own people (soldiers etc) is the heart of the problem whats wrong with your country.
Political correctness won’t drive your country much further than it did, and those with beliefs like yours that we all are equal in the world are among those who brought your nation down to where it is now. Add to it your greedy corporate profits driven economy, that drove so many jobs to other countries – to which all of you applaud in search of short term gains not worrying about longer effects – and there is no future for your “once great nation”, thats for sure.
But youre too stupid to see it, which actually is no problem – after all it is beneficiary to someone else, as obviously laws of nature (eat or be eaten) apply to us whether you like it or not 😉
All the illegal immigrants in USA itself, hardworking asians of People’s Republic or India, and many other countries certainly thank you all for chipping-in to their progress and rise to power at your own expense…
#18 – You really are typical american idiot, OFTLO
And you are just a run of the mill idiot, not good enough to wear the label “American”.
#19
really? should I cry now or what?
holy moley… you really kicked my butt now LOL
Americans are scary.
#18, 887 ½
I’m very curious what country you come from. Given the opportunity though, I’m relatively certain you would want to be a citizen.
Maybe America isn’t perfect. We do have enough sense to admit it. We are also intelligent enough to try and fix it civilly, with democratic elections and not with guns.
Waterboarding===very, very unpleasant, and it can kill you if done wrong.
But not torture IF the definition is “that which causes pain or long term physical harm.”
I am on the fence since seeing several cases of volunteers who have been waterboarded MORE THAN ONCE! and we do it on a limited basis as part of advanced survival training. Now, we don’t poke our own people’s eyes out==that causes pain and long term physical harm–it is torture.
Hmmmm, on the other hand, mild/severe electrocution doesn’t cause
long term physical harm. Neither does being kicked in the nuts.
Psychological torture!
US official just asked if some other country waterboarded our troops, would we complain. His answer–depends.
How many here can make the distinction between very very unpleasant and torture==and whats your definition?
#22 No thanks 🙂
Im well paid in my own also beautiful country, so ask some poor third world sucker to do the dirty jobs for you LOL
Certainly no country is perfect , and don’t make mistake – since its the last empire based on my own western civilization – I love America and (small) percentage of Americans too. I simply loathe the brainless obese caricatures of your forefathers that so many of yous have become 🙂
While I agree it is still possible that you “are also intelligent enough to try and fix it civilly,with democratic elections…” (and thats what we all outside of USA hope for, believe it or not), please forgive me if I really ROTFL on the last part of your sentence: ” …and not with guns.”
bwahahaha!!! Joke of the day 🙂
Some parts of your cities often sound like Baghdad at night, so please admit you were kidding 😉
23–my edit failed to delete the Para starting with Hmmmm.
anyhoo==18==I love disagreeing with OFTLO because he holds reasonable positions and defends them well. I’ve read his posts and yours, and I don’t see what complaint you have? Read too fast, I can see OFTLO posts sounding more negative than a slow careful read gives it.
Why don’t you post again SPECIFICALLY about whats wrong with saying general poling on a question often is irrelevant and what is wrong with admiring those that support constitutional rights?
I’d like to know?
And someone argue against this====I submit all our enemies use torture without restriction against GOUSA==so that is no reason for us not to do it. I agree indiscriminate torture does more harm than good, but limited skilled torture can bring results??? So why not use it on a limited basis–or something like waterboarding that atleast is on some kind of dividing line?
#25 it is “unamerican” what youre saying 😉
(nowadays it means: politically incorrect, unliberal and/or too republican, and smells like Dubya dipped his neocon fingers in it… generally bad 😉 )
26–yes, I love to be accurate in the definitions of words used. That does make me often politically incorrect. Still though==OFTLO posted as I stated and you just make a general rant and cannot comment specifically on his post.
Surely, if you think before you post you can do better than that?===Now, I’m not demanding you think before your post, just on this occassion. When I disagree with OFTLO==he usually has majority support and I lose. I’m looking for your help here.
#27 so what he often has majority on his side?
Majorites are usually queues of uneducated idiots, do you really care do they agree with your opinions or don’t?
Wars are fought to WIN, no to conform to “rules of engagement”.
People die in every war, so WTF is there to discuss here, I dont get it. I said it already , those who spare the enemies for the sake of whatever beliefs or laws they hold, they are potentially harming their own troops.
Many of these liberal american shitheads probably would have never been born if their grandfathers would have been as stupid as they are and hold off Little Boy and Fat Man as they certainly would nowadays.
So, hell yes, I agree with your stance on tortures – I am not for it as a part of common warfare tactics, but if limited torturing of enemies can save live of even one of our own soldiers I see no reason why should we value enemies’ lives over the lives of our own.
Having said that I know I am in huge minority here, and do you think I care? 😉
12–OFTLO==Well, I think you are wrong. Taking a poll on whether or not waterboarding is torture is EXACTLY the best thing polls should be taken on. It goes to policy action to be taken or not. I agree a poll on riding firetrucks on its own is meaningless==but opinion polls on opinion questions is completely valid.
I also do actually wonder if supporting the constitution actually addresses the issue about waterboarding at all? Whether you support the constitution or not had no bearing on whether or not waterboarding is torture? So, two good examples of TRYING to tie otherwise valid positions to irrelevant issues.
Always good to give that first evisceral response a closer second/third read????
Waterboarding isn’t torture. It’s freedom hugging. We’re giving terrorists a baptism. Praise Jesus!