2006년 무슬림권 선교소식 — You have to scroll down the page to get the English version of this webpage. It seems as if London is continuing to slowly turn into a Muslim country,
The mosque will be part of a giant ‘Islamic village’ situated next to the Olympic site. ..The architects Mangera Yvars have written that the centre will take up to 50,000 square metres at Abbey Mills in West Ham. The mosque and the surrounding buildings are expected to have a capacity of 70,000. This is only 10,000 fewer than the Olympic stadium itself, making it the largest place of worship in all of Europe .
There is a lot of complaining.
But what will really happen if the mosque is allowed to go up in West Ham? Tablighi Jamaat, who plan to use the site as their new European headquarters, have a history of taking over towns. If the mosque is built, there is little question that West Ham will be Islamicised.
Tablighi Jamaat’s current European headquarters is in the Savile Town area of Dewsbury, west Yorkshire , where a mosque and school were built in the late 70s and early 80s. Since then, the area has been practically taken over by Muslims. One local expert said that Savile Town has been colonised by Tablighi Jamaat.
#30 I am confused by your statement. I am an atheist yet I don’t think humans can escape from a morality, assuming moral systems are ethno/genetic/cultural gifts to all humanity. Our moral code is part of our identity. It IS our identity. A normal human, that is, a nonsociapath or otherwise someone not suffering from an abnormal pathology, can not not have an identity.
Our morality is not merely a contingency but a necessary byproduct of human consciousness.
As to whether I would chose to be on an island with an atheist or a believer, I am not certain. I think I would chose the atheist. We would have much in common.
Also, I think that the mental space required to deny a cultural idiom implies a rational mind that the believer can not be assumed to possess.
Along these same lines, I would prefer a more stable companion. In my experience, the religious are prone to respond to emotions in a more fundamental mode than the rational. I have seen sober men and women on witch-hunts and watched mass delusion unfold.
Bryan Carney
whooo…. nothing gets as many comments as a nice religious flame war.
alas, here’s mine:
I was hoping to see the end of religion in my lifetime, brought to us by the exploding scientific knowledge which is setting out to show us the beauty of everything we see around us in such a marvelous way, that it is ridiculous to think such a fairy-tail thing as “god”.
But no. We’re obviously seeing a worldwide growth of religious power, brought to us by the uneducated masses everywhere. That’s where the initial movement started and now here, the weak, the frightened and the stupid gather under the wings of the christian churches again, hoping to be protected from their muslim brother-foes.
I will stick to the old Nietzsche word “I will only enter that building when the bright sunlight shines through the scattered windows”.
Churches (and not only christians) to Ruins! Worldwide!
pj
#12 Rich These are the people who drove off the Nazis.
What have the Russian to do with anything? They drove off the Nazi’s. We just let the Nazi’s bomb for a few years while waited and waited for our American cousins to come to our aid, which they did….. eventually.
As for the building, a nice building. As for the Islamification of the UK, I think you’ll find that Muslims, from any part of the world, become British a lot more quickly that the British will ever become Muslim.
I should also be very surprised if in four generations from now British Muslim women are still keeping their eye’s down, staying at home, not wanting to work, and doing all those things that some clerics seem to think Muslim women should do. I’ll also be surprised if many Muslim men are really going to choose a life of no-sex-before-marriage and no drinking…..
There is a reason why the radicals are resorting to terrorism….. they know they are fighting a war they cannot win…..
#31, #33 and the likes, you should take time to learn Islam (could be hard since you’ve already concluded that Islam/religion is for the weak minded). Like a lot of things in this world, it should be looked at in totality. There’s nothing wrong with Islam. It’s the interpretation of men that skews it. I’m a Muslim, and I find allegations such as “misogynistic, sexist, illiberal, homophobic, and hate filled religion” to be untrue. I find it unjust for people to generalize other people without knowing the whole matter in hand. And why are the ‘non-believers’ trying so hard to convince/attract/argue the ‘believers’ to go the other way??
You have the right to say what you wish about what you believe in, and I also have the right to defend what I believe in.
Anyway, there no threat about a mosque. People who do bad/evil things are not related to where they are. They just do.
We are all going to end up speaking Chinese anyway so whats the point worrying about this. Anyway I think I prefer living in a country where we don’t have fanatical christians running the country, those guys are really frightening – look to your own country !
[violation of posting guidelines]
#38: which god said so?
and #32, don’t be confused. It’s actually the religiously indoctrinated people, oblivious of the Greek philosophers, who think our morality today has roots in religion. We have developed morality despite such appalling books as “The Bible”. The Greek have done much of the work that was necessary to overcome the bronze age, the katholics have then kicked us back into the dark medieval times from which renaissance, focusing on Roman and Greek philosophy has catapulted us into modern times.
Religious morality does not ab initio include humanity, go read the old testament.
pj
Religion is a blessing and a curse.
The primary purpose of religion is to curb the imagination of uneducated people and quell the kill-and-fuck-it instinct of our animal natures.
To #35, Wan K Reza, your personal version of Islam may be relatively harmless, but the problem is, as with all religions, there are many versions and some of them are dangerous. This particular mosque is of a secretive evangelical muslim faction, the Tablighi Jamaat, that encourages terror tactics, and refers to outsiders as “kafir”, which is a term of contempt like calling someone an infidel.
According to British officials, two of the suicide bombers who attacked the London transit system in July 2005 had attended Tablighi Jamaat gatherings.
Considering the size of the intended mosque, you would have a hard time convincing me that extremist muslims are the minority.
#41: that would be a wonderful tale of the invention of religion.
In all honesty, religion was born out of fear. It was created to explain the inexplicable, not to rule. Only later, the so called priests found out that it’s a wonderful ruling scheme. Morality never had anything to do with it, it was only incorporated as needed.
And as it goes about “curbing the imagination”, that works both ways. It’s a question of who builds those curbs, and generally, I would greatly distrust any thought limitation that a priest comes up with.
In “the God Dilusion”, Richard Dawkins cites a study that has been done in israeli primary schools. Kids were asked whether the judaic King (David?) did right in destroying the city of Jericho, killing all male inhabitants and enslaving the kids and women. The vast majority of kids said yes, he did right. Of those who said he did not do the right thing, some explained that the inhabitants of Jericho were infidels and therefore, as Jews, they shouldn’t have touched them, not even to kill them.
A second group of similar aged children was presented with the same story, however this time, the king was Chinese and the town was somewhere in Asia. This group almost unanimously said what the king did was wrong.
So much for curbed imagination. In KIDS!
yuck
pj
32 Bryan Carney. Sounds like superstition and religion to me: an artificial, non-existent connection between real life conduct & consequences, and a belief structure. I think you really, really believe your statement about humans having an ingrained morality. Except religious people, of course.
RBG
#38 – the site says uncensored, read #19 and heed.
#44: on your island story: you might choose the religious person, as long as you’re part of his belief system and not part of his “out group”. For in many religions, “thou shalt not kill” is immediately followed by “anyone but infidels”
pj
#41, Popeye, The primary purpose of religion is to curb the imagination of uneducated people and quell the kill-and-fuck-it instinct of our animal natures.
That’s odd, I thought the primary reason was to maintain control of the masses while sucking their pockets dry of money on a tax free basis, owning the finest architecture and real estate and preventing the king or queen from owning everything.
Guess I’m mistaken, your reason sounds good, too.
“We should really ban religion, Its major crippling of humanity , this dependency in fairy stories.”
Right on !!!
“It spreads like a disease and in 50 years or so, France, Sweden, Britain, Holland, and a few others will be close to having muslims as 50% of their population.”
Organized religion is a shining example of idiocy. Islam is the most cancerous of them all.
“almost all terrorists are Muslims.”
Not necessarily, but that has been the case as of late. Muslim = Terrorist is what the world sees.
“All religions should be baned”
Damn right, & that is “banned”.
>>All religions should be baned.
Sieg heil, mein Führer!
well, if it was as simple as banning drugs…
the less educated people are, the more they insist in their right to be betrayed. Ending poverty and providing sufficient education to every child is the way to end religion. Being religious is a sign of a lack of education and scientific understanding.
pj
Except when they build major world-class hospitals and schools.
RBG
>>Ending poverty and providing sufficient education to
>>every child is the way to end religion.
More likely, the way to START it. Real religion, that is. Not megachurches that run on meth and man-ass, suicide bombers, and like that.
Fact… almost 100% of religiousness starts with the brainwashing of children in their home, from the moment they can understand speech to the moment they will never again be able to rationalize alternative reasoning.
>>Fact… almost 100% of religiousness starts with the
>>brainwashing of children in their home
Sounds like YOU are the one who has been brainwashed, Jimbo. Have you heard of Jews for Jesus? Have you heard of Cassius Clay/ Muhammed Ali? Have you heard of Hare Krishas? Have you hard of Antony Flew? Millions of people adopt a spiritual system of beliefs every year that does not “start with the brainwashing of children”.
#54: but in order to be willing to adopt a “spiritual system of beliefs” you have to be willing to think that your imaginary friends that you never lost since childhood speak to you and are actually gods or something. In order to do that, something must have gone wrong in your upbringing.
It’s so bewildering that people look at the beauty of nature, the wonderful complexity of life and can’t think anything but “some ghost must have created all this!”.
I wish bronze age came to an end.
pj
Mister Muster, straight to the point then.
What percentage of all the religious people currently of this earth would you say were taught their religion when they were children?
Mister Mustard, I predict your religious brainwashing will prevent you from answering my question. You know the truth but cant bear to acknowledge it.
Bet it’s close to the same % those who are likewise brainwashed to be liberals…
RBG
one could wonder how many hospitals or schools Tablighi Jamaat have built in the third world muslim countries?
(no need to answer the obvious)