If we do, in fact, have the best healthcare in the world, that just means ours sucks less than everyone else’s, not that it’s good.
America’s Lagging Health Care System
Americans are increasingly frustrated about the subpar performance of this country’s fragmented health care system, and with good reason. A new survey of patients in seven industrialized nations underscores just how badly sick Americans fare compared with patients in other nations. One-third of the American respondents felt their system is so dysfunctional that it needs to be rebuilt completely — the highest rate in any country surveyed. The system was given poor scores both by low-income, uninsured patients and by many higher-income patients.
[…]
Given the large number of people uninsured or poorly insured in this country, it was no surprise that Americans were the most likely to go without care because of costs. Fully 37 percent of the American respondents said that they chose not to visit a doctor when sick, skipped a recommended test or treatment or failed to fill a prescription in the past year because of the cost — well above the rates in other countries.
#10 – Americans are the perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, thinking you know more than you actually do.
What is the name of the effect where you actually are more of an arrogant, pompous jackass than you think you are?
#16 – This rhetoric about evil “socialized” medicine has proven false.
Not only that, but many, if not most, plans touted today, are not plans for “government run” health care. They are barely “socialized” plans in the sense that critics imply.
#20 – The average tax rate for the bottom 50% is 3%. Is that fair?
I don’t know. What does the bottom 50% actually earn and how much do those dollars buy in terms of food, housing and basic services?
You think that government consists entirely of elected and appointed officials at the federal level? Keep dreaming.
No, that’s what I assumed that YOU thought…. it appeared that you were under the impression that between the government workers who took your money away from you and the government workers that took your temperature and gave you shots, that there was some department (staffed by GS-3’s) that was responsible for keeping 40% of the money and stuffing it in a mattress somewhere.
In my mind, the “middlemen” are the private-sector leeches who game the system, taking government money and then spending as little as possible to provide the services that they have contracted to provide. THOSE are the real burden on the system, and they are (I can promise you) OVERWHELMINGLY Republican. Go to your local marina sometime and check out the owners of those 50′ yachts. (Easy; they are very friendly and talkative.) You will find that 80% of them are involved in healthcare in one way or another.
Only one third??!!? What the fuck is the matter with two thirds of this country?
We have the 47th best health care in the world at a price that is dramatically higher than any other nation pays. We pay about 15% of our GDP for health care. The next highest nation comes in at about 9%.
The real problem starts right from the top. The CEO of United Healthcare makes $130,000,000/yr. For what, you should ask. What is he doing for that money?
The answer is so freaking obvious that it amazes me that anyone opposes nationalized health care, or at least universal health care, whether provided by state or federal government.
The answer is that he finds ways to avoid providing coverage for their insured. That is quite literally the job of a health insurance company, to avoid paying for care. Corporations are even legally held responsible for maximizing shareholder value.
A health insurance company that found a way to provide better coverage actually runs the risk of being sued by their shareholders for not maximizing shareholder value. Unless they can make the weak claim that they will make more money by providing better coverage, the CEO could be removed by the board for failure to do his/her job.
Even if you think state and federal governments are incompetent, at least they’d have the charter of providing care, not avoiding providing care. That would be a step in the right direction.
If you are conservative you should be for universal health care!
Not having universal health care costs everyone more money than paying for the poor when they show up at the hospital anyway and get the treatment that would not have been necessary if they had gotten preventative medicine.
Think about it like a car. If you change your oil and get you 15,000 check-ups and take general good care of your car it will in the end cost less than if you run it into the ground and need major repairs. Same goes for people. It is allot cheaper to provide 20 years of meds even at $100 a month ($24,000+ $8000 for 4 doctor visits a year) than it is to do a heart bypass surgery at a cost of (~$350,000)
It is simple math and if you cant see it you are either a stooge for the right wing, or cruel because you don’t think the poor should get ANY help EVER, or just plain greedy! The problem is if you are greedy then you are stupid not to support universal health care.
You mean people do not trust the actuaries of Insurance companies whose only purpose in life is to cut the CORPORATION’s costs? Shame on you for wanting the government, whose job it should be, to see to it that its citizens are being treated properly and fairly. Shame on you for not wanting to see these CEOS of health care companies make millions, while you and yours suffer, having to pay through the nose for care that you thought you had, but do not have, and deny them their god given money! Shame on you from taking food out of the mouths of poor CEOs of drug companies, who can only make a profit here in the United States, because it is the only country in the civilized world whose government still believes that CORPORATIONS should have more rights than PEOPLE!
Shame on you all… We should just throw our paychecks at the corporations, and save them the trouble of having to try to get the money from us. We should gladly not expect service from those companies that we throw our money too either. After all, corporations mean more than people, don’t they?
41 Comments and unless I read too fast, nobody said it.
The “basic” problem with healthcare in GOUSA is that it is set up on a FOR PROFIT CORPORATE DRIVEN model.
To me, healthcare should be based on a “necessity of life” model–like water.
Water is provided by the government for pennies a glass after general taxation. Private enterprise sells waters for 50Cents a glass after adding 40 cents a glass advertising to get you to buy it ultimately making a 500% profit off the government provided water they start with?
So–atleast government provided healthcare based on basic coverage should be provided to all by caring professionals who got into the profession in order to serve. Many more would do it if they didn’t have to rub shoulders with the money oriented used car dealers with a stethascope they have to deal with now.
Much more to say, but it ain’t gonna happen==not under the Repugs, and not under Hilliary.
#22 – The concept of running a medical care system for profit and the concept of America being a “Christian” nation are utterly impossible to reconcile.
It gets easier once your dispel yourself of the false notion that we are a “Christian” nation.
#29 – (They just don’t want others to have the same thing.)
And there it is… Conservatives live in perpetual fear that someone else might also benefit from living in the richest nation on Earth besides them.
Conservatives do not believe in the dignity of life or the concepts of fair play.
#32 – The American health care system, right now today, is the best in the world. certainly it can be improved, but turning it into a gov’t bureaucracy isn’t the answer.
You are right. It’s a damn good health care system… that over 40% of the population can’t access… But very few of the ideas about nationalized health insurance are the same creating a government bureaucracy. Although when you consider the reality of how efficient government bureaucracies like Medicare actually are, a government bureaucracy looks like a better idea.
#34 – The executives in the medical-care-denial industry require their $100,000,000.00 salaries, and the best way to insure that is by making sure people do not have access to adequate health care.
And there is the other thing too… The Health Care Industry. They aren’t in it for your health.
What’s not to love about Patient dumping, people losing their homes and life savings if they get cancer and everyone else one broken leg away from being homeless? Hey now, I know socialized medicine is bad since Sean Hannity says it must be bad. In America, you have the freedom to die of your sickness – that’s your freedom.
Thank goodness there are so many people out there who are fighting for a better system! The way things are going is just unfortunate. I’m glad to see so many passionate comments on this issue, because it’s not going away! That’s why I’m working to support AARP to reform Medicare…go to http://www.thisisridiculous.com to sign the petition! It’s about time our voices were heard!
#42 – bobbo,
Don’t badmouth Hillary. She’s the best Republican candidate in the running. Other than that, read my comment #39 and yours again. See if there’s any substantive difference between the two. I can’t find one. I think we’re in violent agreement.
#43 – OFTLO,
The Health Care Industry. They aren’t in it for your health.
Perfectly said!!
#44 – gadlaw,
You’ve got one side of it right. You’re ignoring the other nightmare. If you have money, they’ll keep the meat that was once you barely alive, by some definition, pumping air and water through your meat until the money runs out. That way, health care continues to maximize its profit at the expense of your would be heirs and your own pain and suffering.
Who wins in this? Just the for profit health industry.
OBTW, in case anyone thought this was only in the NY Times, here’s another version of the story from that liberal rag, Business Week.
http://tinyurl.com/2r9fc8
Social Security consists primarily of writing and mailing out checks. I would say 3% is too high, but who knows.
Health care costs have risen every time the government gets involved. Already, they have doctors forbidden from treating Medicare patients outside of the Medicare system.
#32, Phuckhead,
The American health care system, right now today, is the best in the world. certainly it can be improved, but turning it into a gov’t bureaucracy isn’t the answer.
Wrong. The American health care system is NOT the best in the world today. It is too expensive for the value returned and way too many people are either uninsured or underinsured.
#44, gadlaw,
Over ½ of all personal bankruptcies come from insured people that can’t make the out of pocket expenses after a health disaster.
#48,MikeN,
Social Security consists primarily of writing and mailing out checks. I would say 3% is too high, but who knows.
Apparently bob in #2 does. BTW, When I renewed my car plate a couple of months ago, it took me about 5 minutes from when I parked until I was sticking the new sticker on.
Health care costs have risen every time the government gets involved.
They have risen even when the government hasn’t gotten involved. In fact, they love when the government gets involved because then they get more gravy.
Exactly, government money means more money being spent on health care, allowing prices to rise even faster.
Well Greg allen supports a 70% tax on all income over 60,000. Anyone else?
I’m amused by all the unreformed Communists here extolling the efficiencies of government bureaucracy vs. the evil for-profit medical industry lining its own pockets. Go back and read up on how central rationing of goods and services worked out in the 20th century.
It ought to be like your car. You can shop mechanics around, get options and estimates, negotiate prices. Financing is available. If you want to buy a warranty plan, you can, but most people opt for a la carte repairs. Everyone should have to carry accident insurance in case you have a major incident. Rich people go to the dealer, but a varied aftermarket exists as well, offering options for all income levels. This system has kept auto repair costs reasonable while protecting people from getting bankrupted by auto accidents.
Why should medicine be any different? It used to be the same way before HMOs.
I don’t need to read the comment’s…..I can tell you what is being said by who…..we have had this click generating post before, far too many times.
Now would be a good time to put the link in about the folk’s in the UK who are pulling their own teeth because there are too few Dentist’s and the waiting list in almost a year long. Long live the NHS…..or maybe we could post about the 30% of all NHS patients that contract MRSA in hospital. Or how Doctor’s won’t work w/e’s anymore except in A/E’s (ER’s to us Yank’s). Or how they decided that statin drugs were to expensive, so if your over 55 you can’t get them from the NHS anymore (kick my butt, but isn’t over 55 when most people NEED heart meds?).
Maybe Universal healthcare works in country’s with a population barely larger than California (Norway, Denmark, Sweden), but it usually isn’t all it’s cracked up to be in larger countries.
It’s probably a function of how long the system has been in place. It used to be everyone said we need national health care, and just look at Britain’s as a model. Now they all talk about Canada, because Britain doesn’t look so good anymore. Now with the Canadian courts saying the system is broken, perhaps they’ll switch to another country.
I would suspect that the Japanese and Scandinavian countries’ systems are better because those guys are just naturally healthier. We’ll see how their systems do with all the immigrants.
Can anyone tell me what is so great about the current system we have that they so vigorously defend it as the best?
I would gather most of those that do have never had or know anyone with a serious health care issue.
I am fortunate I have money and the best coverage in the country that it provides. I don’t have to get approval for anything and I pay nothing for anything other than my policy. And still I have issues with the system.
Why should my status allow me to have better doctors or care than you? Because I worked harder? Because I was able to make more money than you ? What about children that can’t work and who’s parents don’t make enough? Can you look into the eyes of a sick child and say “Well I don’t think you want to be well because your poor and if you wanted to be well you would get a job and earn the right to be well”
ASSHOLES! Bunch of wannabe greedy assholes! You will never be rich so stop thinking that the rightwing bullshit lies will lead you there. Screwing over children and the poor will not make you rich it only makes you an asshole!
Health is not the same as a luxury item so stop acting like it is.
Sick people cost everyone more money. The poor guy with tuberculosis who will spread it to others because he cant get treatment. Maybe an employee on your company coverage who might spread it to others in the company which will cause your rates to go up. Not to mention the cost to the company due to missing employees. Wouldn’t it be better if we had a system that could treat just the one guy instead of the few he may infect. Some of you people have you heads up your ass and cant see the forest through the trees. It is the same as the asshole who doesn’t want to pay for poor kids to get a proper education but instead would rather pay 10 times as much to keep them in jail for the crime they commit because they couldn’t find a job and needed to survive. BACKWARDS THINKING! Get your head out of your ass and stop thinking about your weekly income and whether it allows you to eat out and drive that SUV that makes you look so cool! ASSHOLES!
I know many people just like you. They all want what other have and think the way to get it is by being stingy! WRONG! I give away more money that you probably earn and I will and still have more than you!! ASSHOLES!
Sorry but I have seen the faces of children who died because they couldn’t get the care they need. They had insurance too!! IN THIS COUNTRY! Shame on all of us!!!!!!
what health care SYSTEM? It’s broken, it’s not a system any more. There is no way a self employed person can afford health care. It’s gone up 400% in the last 5 years…..and now the $5,000.00 deductible HSA account I had has doubled in the last year! It is so out of control that there is no chance it will be reined in anytime soon.
Meanwhile, hospitals are trying to look like fancy hotels (with carpets and fancy lighting) and drug companies are pushing all variety of crap in magazines and television. Our health care system doesn’t exist…its all about profit margins and screwing the public.
Toss it all out, screw them!
A good idea. Scrap medicaid and give states block grants so they can administer their own health care plans. It would save billions.
We would still keep a small federal health care system as a catchnet of course, since states often have problems getting that last 5-10% compliance.
J how dare wealthy people go to expensive restaurants. We need government providing food for everyone.
#4,
but the other side looks like this…
If some person has 1000 times MORE then you, he has the ability to force prices up. He will pay more for goods and services, and companies WANT his money, and will raise their prices to make then SEEM better.
If you regulate taxes and everyone gets a fair share of money, the rich can make LESS and prices are forced down. Same with property taxes as THEY wont be paying OVEr what the market price IS. they are then required to Monitor their money, KNOW how much things cost, insted of slapping down money for anything and not CAREING if its to much.
Cripes…..communism may be dead in Russia, but it’s still rampant here at DU.
The system needs fixing, not destroyed. The medical system in this country WAS the best, but goverment interference started the snow ball of profits ahead of people with New Deal type rules and laws passed by Johnson.
Fix it…..and ECA…..sorry…but everyone gets the same, then individual intitive is taken away….why make more with hard work or idea’s when the slacker next to you is getting the same as you.
#52, Billy Bob
Go back and read up on how central rationing of goods and services worked out in the 20th century.
Why stop there? Why not go back to the 19th Century and discuss the various cartels, monopolies, and oligopolies. Hey then we could talk about the great American Presidents like Grant, Coolidge, and Hoover who fiddled while Americans starved to death.
#53, Joshua,
More bullshit lies. I notice you never back up your crap.
#54, MikeN,
Another stupid, irresponsible bullshit lie. Ask Canadians how many would like to have an American system. Not too many.
#60, Joshua,
Not only do you love inventing crap, now (actually it is again) you don’t make any sense. Well, except for the “communism” thing. I notice how the right wing nuts all throw that one at anything they don’t like.
>>The medical system in this country WAS the best, but
>>goverment interference started the snow ball of profits
>>ahead of people
Eh, I don ‘t think it was “goverment interference” that started the snowball, son.
More like the for-profit denial-of-health-care industry, doctors who are more interested in country club memberships and patients-per-hour than providing good, long-term medical care, and things like that.
Every other civilized country has goverment involvement in the provision of medical care; only here in the USA do we seem to have turned it into one of the shittier healh care systems out there.
Simple solution to the Health Care Crisis: Medicare Everywhere !
Medicare turns out to be the system with the LEAST OVERHEAD of any “Managed Care System” ! Most Private, Profit-Making “Managed Care” Systems are managed for the PROFITS OF THE CEO’S AND SHARE HOLDERS, and every dollar STOLEN BY THE CEOs is a DOLLAR LESS HEALTHCARE for the Patients !!!