Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Quite an interesting article.
Just three years ago, the leaders of the conservative Christian political movement could almost see the Promised Land. White evangelical Protestants looked like perhaps the most potent voting bloc in America. They turned out for President George W. Bush in record numbers, supporting him for re-election by a ratio of four to one. Republican strategists predicted that religious traditionalists would help bring about an era of dominance for their party. Spokesmen for the Christian conservative movement warned of the wrath of “values voters.” James C. Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, was poised to play kingmaker in 2008, at least in the Republican primary. And thanks to President Bush, the Supreme Court appeared just one vote away from answering the prayers of evangelical activists by overturning Roe v. Wade.
Today the movement shows signs of coming apart beneath its leaders.
The 2008 election is just the latest stress on a system of fault lines that go much deeper. The phenomenon of theologically conservative Christians plunging into political activism on the right is, historically speaking, something of an anomaly. Most evangelicals shrugged off abortion as a Catholic issue until after the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision. But in the wake of the ban on public-school prayer, the sexual revolution and the exodus to the suburbs that filled the new megachurches, protecting the unborn became the rallying cry of a new movement to uphold the traditional family. Now another confluence of factors is threatening to tear the movement apart. The extraordinary evangelical love affair with Bush has ended, for many, in heartbreak over the Iraq war and what they see as his meager domestic accomplishments. That disappointment, in turn, has sharpened latent divisions within the evangelical world — over the evangelical alliance with the Republican Party, among approaches to ministry and theology, and between the generations.
“In the evangelical church in general there is kind of a push back against the Republican party and a feeling of being used by the Republican political machine,” [Paster Paul Hill] continued. “There are going to be a lot of evangelicals willing to vote for a Democrat because there are 40 million people without health insurance and a Democrat is going to do something about that.”
Right, now is the time to strike, they are at their weakest… who is going to start the “Family values means paying your workers a family wage” campaign?
Then all you need to do is find someone who is not a coke-snorting, having sex with everyone lunatic and get them to start some sort of evangelical liberal church for the suburban crowd…. (How about the 1st Church of Atheism or something like that?) Hell, I’ll join if it weaken THEM…..
NOW IS YOUR CHANCE!
These trends are historically cyclic.
2 – a trend nonetheless. Could it be the Karma that bitch slaps these idiots that are nothing more than thieves?
“They turned out for President George W. Bush in record numbers, supporting him for re-election by a ratio of four to one. ”
4:1?? compared to WHOM/WHAT??
and they are finding that their CHOICE WAS/IS an idiot??
HOW ABOUT YOU CHANGE THAT TUNE FOR ONCE?!
Its annoying to see so many of your anti-christian ‘findings’ on dvorak.
Im not christian, but christianity IMHO is as good as any other ‘normal’ religions like buddhism or judaism, they all gives some kind of guidance for the weak minded (who otherwise would be ‘lost’ without their faith) on how to live and let others live.
What is it with you Uncle Dave that you so eagerly post any negative crap about christianity all the time on dvorak blog? Were you sexually harrased by some twisted christian preacher in the past or what is it?
I don’t get it.
Pick on islam ‘the religion of peace’ – which is again in its conquering stage like every 100 or so years it does – if you really must find religious subjects… what, are you afraid of fatwa, or any ‘peaceful’ muslim friends or neighbours of yours that youre so afraid to touch islam subject? 😉
#5: Where do you get the idea this post is anti-Christian? It’s about politics.
What you might try doing, before posting, is read the article. It isn’t a knock at Christianity, but about those who tried and failed to combine religion and politics as the Religious Right did, and how the younger generation is going a different route.
For your information, I became an atheist as a young teenager as I started to study science, history, religion, the history of religion, psychology, sociology, and everything else. The reason I take after Christianity is because so many of them in this country want to turn the US into a theocracy. I also hope it gets people to think about what they blindly believe in.
And as for not posting about other religions, there are 10,000 stories about Christianity for every one about other religions. If there were more stories about other religions that are relevant to everyone perhaps more would get posted.
#5 – Is there any positive crap to be posted about Christianity? How is it that your make believe friend is better than anyone else’s make believe friend?
As soon as these religious nutjobs are replaced by critical thinkers the better off everyone is. That includes every other religion in the world, not only the snake charmers in the US.
#5 – its true, we hate/despise/loathe all of you close minded, willing little sheepies that randomly walk up to people on the street and tell them how bad they are and how they’re going to YOUR hell because your brain-control mongering pastor said to “get the word out”. Im not even going to get into the discription of islam – those people are bent on instant death & gratification through jihad. nuff said.
Religious people are insane/crazy/wacko, biggoted, and close minded (i’d say fucked too, but they might take it the wrong way).
#1 – whats wrong with blow?
We evangelicals were never a unified voting bloc.
The conservative evangelical LEADERS wanted to spread this myth for self-power reason and — once again — the media reported poorly on it.
YES … evangelicals tend to be conservative and Republican but MILLIONS of us voted for Gore and Kerry. But we have been simply ignored.
… and that’s just us evengelicals. Christians are about as divided as the general American population.
Doesn’t this just make sense? Yet LOTS of ignorant people — including many right here on this blog — keep perpetuating this myth that Christians are all a bunch of red neck, reactionary, Republican creationists. This is just not true. Not even close to true.
> there are 40 million people without health
> insurance and a Democrat is going to do
> something about that.
The operative word being “something” which does not necessarily imply “something good.”
#10
There was a time in fact when the religious were consider heavily liberal. That said, while “all” Christians are clearly not creationists, the fact that a substantial portion are calls into question the critical thinking skills of the entire group.
keep perpetuating this myth that Christians are all a bunch of red neck, reactionary, Republican creationists.
I can’t say that I believe that about all Christians (large “C”). But I can say it about the 200 – 300 of them that I’ve known well over the last 50 years.
11. That said, while “all” Christians are clearly not creationists, the fact that a substantial portion are calls into question the critical thinking skills of the entire group.
Are even a substantial proportion? Speaking internationally, at least, the Catholic church has turned away from its original view or Darwin’s teaching and has no issue with it. There are roughly twice as many Roman Catholic’s in this world as protestants, so that already puts the number of number of creationists at best at only 1/3rd, but then not all protestants believe the creationists either, in fact, the Anglican/Episcopalian church doesn’t support the creationists view.
I have no idea if “Livescience” is a credible source or not (my googling was the first I heard of the site) but its seems that Americans are among the least likely (40%) of the western world (unless you include Turkey in the western world) to accept Evolution (see: http://www.livescience.com/health/060810_evo_rank.html)
So, you are mixing athiesm with politics. I’ve known some ‘practising’ athiest and rational thinking was not how I would describe them. Believing in Utopia and that secular huminism will save the world when all around them human intervention clearly demonstrates greed and ones own personal self interest over others. I’m I defending Christians? No. I’m just merely pointing out that you are a ‘self rightous’ athiest. You sound like the very assclown you are against.
Favorite quote of the whole piece:
“I thought in my enthusiasm,” he told me with a smile, “that somehow we could band together and change things politically and everything will be fine.” But the closing of Dr. Tiller’s clinic was fleeting. Electing Christian politicians never seemed to change much. “When you mix politics and religion,” Carlson said, “you get politics.”
Republicans had enough power to outlaw abortion nationwide, but never did, because they knew as soon as they did, the pro choice advocates would become a huge political force.
So instead, Republicans held up the “pro life” agenda as a carat for political support they never intended to actually fulfill.
I think the evangelicals have figured out that for themselves now.
“a feeling of being used by the Republican political machine”
Golly gee whiz… ya think so?? One of the things that always amazed me about the Christian right was their complete and total lack of skepticism. They are naive little children. Any thinking person would be able to see that the republican neocons were/are users, who will espouse any rhetoric if they think it will get them a few votes.
“They turned out for President George W. Bush in record numbers, supporting him for re-election by a ratio of four to one. ”
That was because he promised them he will amend the constitution so they wouldn’t have to treat homosexuals as equals and so far he didn’t do that.
These (Christian) folk are so dumb all a Republican has to do is be openly homophobic and these idiots will vote for him even if he condems them to spend retirement living in a cardboard box on the streets. Sadly, this also applies to getting the Hispanic vote because they (the Republicans) found out that the overwhelming majority of Latinamericans are deeply religious.
As a evangelical Christian, I for one am glad if the “evangelical political movement” has run its course. It was a particularly stupid experiment on the part of a small segment of the Christian spectrum, and anyone really familiar with the New Testament or with Christ’s teachings (not to mention history) would have predicted that this was a doomed effort that would cause more damage to the Christian cause than good.
That said, I am convinced that the “evangelical” movement (considered as a branch of Christianity) is nowhere near dead or defunct. I can adduce evidence that it’s alive and well at the church I attend and among the uncounted professional and lay missionaries it sends out and supports. Don’t be too quick to write us Christians off.
18. Kim, with all the damage done at this point, I’m just curious, but do you or your fellow evagilecals feel any guilt or even responsibitlity for the suffering you have caused?
morons, Im not christian, Im atheist LOL
I don’t ‘defend’ any religion.
I have simply pointed out that this blog – and specially posts by nutjob Uncle Dave’s – are so full of anything anti-christian, yet there is seem almost nothing about the ‘religion of peace’.
And as a person who live in the western society i am not blind to what christianity meant to the rise of the western civilization, something you clearly don’t even have a clue about (all you see in christianity are just bunch of pedophile preachers and such ‘newz’ – you clearly are idiots not worth any discussion with).
Weak minded personaes, those who can’t tell right from wrong using their own feeble brains – they all need guidance. Thats where the religions like christianity or buddhism (but not islam) come handy. Otherwise our civilization quickly turns into bunch of wild beasts killing each other (and yes, often in the name of ‘god’ of the preferred religion, but you hopefully you are not that dumb to not distinguish most of the religion’s doctrines from rotten apples).
Well you protestant jesus monkeys, don’t feel bad, your catholic enemies voted for that clown in the White House too.
Christians are a naive lot. They fell for the neoconservative line and now they’re paying for it. The neocons aren’t even christians, nor are they democracy advocates. I suggest every GOP supporter research carefully the origins of Neoconservativism. Its shocking but they essentially are old world Trotskyite communists. They’ve infiltrated your party and want to destroy America from within (note all these unwinnable wars and 1 more to go) so they can restructure it into a soviet style system, and they’ve had quite a bit of success so far. I just hope the democrats wise up and embrace progressive liberalism again.
14. GF So, you are mixing athiesm with politics. I’ve known some ‘practising’ athiest and rational thinking was not how I would describe them.
There is no reason why a practicing atheist, or anything else, shouldn’t get involved in politics, but it will be a sad day when someone starts running for office on the ‘atheism’ ticket (not because atheists should run for office, but because it’d mean that politics has become so religious that people are voting based on personal spiritual belief and not what the politician stands for). The problem with the Nutjob Right is that they keep trying to de-secularize religion and politics.
On that note, I’d say the biggest threat that Islam has towards western democracy (possibly the biggest threat to democracy after the Neo-Cons) isn’t the bombs and acts of terrorism (really, if it wasn’t them it’d be someone else I am sure) but its a growing view amongst some Muslims that it is wrong to separate church and state. I am not sure if its been tried in the US yet, but there are already been attempts in the UK and Canada to introduce Shira law as a legally binding method of arbitration (which, in fairness, seems to work really well in non-western democracies, specifically places like Nigeria). While this may be great for Africa, I can’t see how this will cause any good in the west if we start dividing society up into different ethnic groups and policing them differently….
Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing at all against Islam, I just think that we have to mindful about not repeating mistakes we’ve done in the past simply because one special interest group or another reckon its a good idea.
Sorry I’m late to the party.
#1 – Ben,
Keep your eye on The OUT Campaign. It’s time for atheists to come out of the closet, following the wonderful example of the LBGT community, and demand the respect we deserve in a society that respects us less than any other minority in the country. Many smaller minorities are showing much greater political force.
I’ll come march on your parade Misanthropic Scott…. just don’t do any pervy stuff in case children are around 😀
Can I be like one of those ‘Proud Father of A Gay Son’ types and hold high a banner saying “Jesus Loves Atheists, So I Do Too” or something equally as tacky?
awwwwwwww, did you get used by a politician? did he really make you feel like he cared about you and your agenda? and did the phone calls and photo ops stop once he got elected?
geeeee, that’s never happened before, you poor, poor people
here, have a tissue, it’s okay to cry….
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha dumb ass suckers, you deserve what you get.
neo-cons are all about money, they don’t care you or your god!
#19 Mark: What “damage” do you hold me or my fellow evangelicals responsible for? Specifics please, or I cannot really comment.
#26 — i’d like to answer this one if i may.
1.) evangelicals have, by injecting themselves into the political arena, destroyed the ability of the republican party to discuss ordinary issues of fiscal responsibility, judicial restraint, states’ right, tax/spending cuts, and deregulation without getting bogged down into insipid pissing contests over who’s a bigger better christian.
the result? alienation of huge swaths of moderate conservatives who feel that religion is a private matter to be left out the legislative, judicial and executive branches of the government.
fact is, evangelicals do nothing but proselytize, proselytize, proselytize, which fattens the pockets of your uber-rich ministers, but accomplishes little else.
2.) evangelicals, by their abject rejection of the scientific method and religious intolerance, are well on their way toward destroying america’s technical leadership in the world, a position once lost will be near impossible to regain.
3.) evangelicals in general are destroying the sense of religious tolerance in this nation because even though they are overwhelmingly wealthy and politically powerful, they pretend to be oppressed, which frankly is a sickeningly shameful ruse and an outright lie.
4.) evangelicals push on every imaginable front legal challenges to the constitution, and if they had the balls to admit it, are actually pushing for the dissolution of the Republic to be replaced with a Christian theocracy. they sound like the people who want pot legal — lots of blustery bullshit, but deep down you know what they really want.
there you have it, chief — evangelicals are bad for america.
#24 – Ben,
Sure. You can do the proud father of an atheist thing. Just remember though, Jesus Hates Atheists!!
Hiya Misanthropic Scott:
Interesting article, especially as the question of Hell is an interesting one, the whole question of why hell exists is a long debated one with some (myself included) believe that the traditional vision of Hell doesn’t have anything to do with Christianity.
In the New Testament it is described as ‘a great void with gnashing of teeth’ and traditional as an eternal punishment of fire and pain. I take these as symbols of being consumed more than ever lasting punishment, so hell isn’t a punishment, its an absence of life, so when people are going to hell, they are simply not partaking in any sort of afterlife, and it has nothing to do with which creeds they subscribe to.
The whole “you have to believe are you’ll be punished for ever” thing just doesn’t make sense really. It sounds more like the words of priests and ministers trying to sound important than of a guy that was supposed to of walked the earth spreading a message of peace and love.
If this is the case, Jesus doesn’t hate or want to punish Atheists or anyone else, he just warns that people who become so cold and bitter and distant from any form of love (which is primarily what Jesus describes God as) then they run the risk of become totally devoid of life both in this world and possibly the next.
Judging by the stories that survive about him, I’d a thought that a chap like Jesus, should he had existed, would have a soft spot for atheists. He was exactly the biggest fan of established priestly classes of his time….
Fucking hell, I feel like a preacher now. I’ll go worship a false idol for a while now to balance things out. Sorry…. I am not trying to convert you, really….
-Ben.
#29 – un Ben,
In the New Testament it is described as ‘a great void with gnashing of teeth’ and traditional as an eternal punishment of fire and pain. I take these as symbols of being consumed more than ever lasting punishment, so hell isn’t a punishment, its an absence of life, so when people are going to hell, they are simply not partaking in any sort of afterlife, and it has nothing to do with which creeds they subscribe to.
And, in the absence of life, exactly how do they continue to gnash their teeth?