A West Scranton woman could face up to 90 days in jail and a fine of up to $300 for allegedly shouting profanities at an overflowing toilet while inside her Luzerne Street home.
Although Ms. Herb doesn’t recall exactly what she said, she admitted that she was frustrated and let more than a few choice words fly. Unfortunately, it was near an open bathroom window.
“The toilet was overflowing and leaking down into the kitchen and I was yelling (for my daughter) to get the mop,” she said. “A guy is yelling, ‘Shut the f— up,’ and I yelled back, ‘Mind your own business.’ ”
Her next-door neighbor, Patrick Gilman, a city police officer who was off-duty at the time…called the police. Patrolman Gerald Tallo responded and charged Ms. Herb with disorderly conduct.
Mary Catherine Roper, an ACLU attorney said…“It cannot be the basis for a citation. You can’t prosecute somebody for swearing at a cop or a toilet,” she said. “We bring one of these cases a year and sue some police departments because they do not remember that they are not the language police.”
Cripes, we have every other kind of cop in this society. I guess “language police” is to be expected.
Thanks, KB
19 OFTLO. Just the kind that similarly has the local language police here protecting the sensitive eyes of DU readers. From people similarly out of control. And bent on ruining a good thing for the rest of us.
RBG
MScott, the biggest hole in your argument is that you compare low tech early settlers mismanaged everything through ignorance (thus 83% of the large North American mammal species went extinct.) to modern day high yield, managed operations and a better understanding (but somewhat reluctance to follow through) of the balances of nature and sustainability.
We may be pushing the limits, but we are not doomed.
JimR – What seems to be the problem. Are humans encroaching on the TP’s natural habitat? I know I’m asking for it, but, what does WePCC stand for? Ha! Ha! You said TP and wiped in the same sentence.
Why do so many people believe they have the RIGHT not to be annoyed, insulted, disturbed, etc. We live in a SOCIETY for the love of dog – deal with it!
Call me a fundamentalist, but curtailing the use of curse words means curtailing the freedom of speach.
It’s disorderly conduct. Nobody goes to jail for disorderly conduct unless they are on probation or have a decent criminal history. She’ll pay a fine and go home.
This has nothing to do with the toilet, that should be obvious but the comments seem to imply otherwise. It sounds like she was screaming like a lunatic within ear shot of her whole neighborhood. Imagine if you had kids playing outside.
#23 – for a while I thought you were on to something, but I’m beginning to believe you’re just on something. (I’d like to try it though 🙂 )
#35 – You must be talking about #26 (MScott). He’s on crack.
#35 – I was trying to bait mark. He usually takes the opposition no matter how insane. I guess he’s out today.
Sure, many people swear when something unexpected and unfortunate happens. But it’s hard to have sympathy for her since she was asked to stop and for some reason needed to continue swearing at the toilet. Apparently it taunted her a second time.
#38 – Todd, you are absolutely correct. Ms Herb was asked to desist but continued without provocation from the toilet. In his line of work, msr. Toilet has seen many, so knows an ass when he sees one.
#31 – JimR,
You’re right. Modern society has a much heavier toll on the planet per capita than hunters and gatherers. Perhaps we really can’t support even 6 million.
#36 – TML,
Nope. No crack here. We really did cause a mass extinction on every single land mass we hit after leaving Africa. And we did it with Clovis point weaponry or less. There is no way to sustain our current population or even anything close to it.
We are past peak grain. All three major grain crops have been declining year over year. We are past peak ocean fisheries output. We have been getting less fish from the ocean since 1983 despite continually improving fishing technology. A billion people rely on ocean fish for the primary source of their protein.
We are not yet at peak human population despite being past peak food. This cannot continue. Please read Plan B 2.0. It’s available for download for free. There are plenty of endnotes to back up any statements you feel may be in dispute.
http://www.earth-policy.org/Books/PB2/Contents.htm
Consider this simple and obvious fact. If human population continues to increase, at some point we will hit a hard planetary limit. Anything less implies that the mass of humans can exceed the mass of the planet.
While I dislike it when people use profanities, I think she was justified. There is no reason to arrest someone for swearing in their own home, especially when they are provoked.
In response to #14, if this was not just a single outburst, why wasn’t she reported some other time when she was less justified.
I could understand it if she regularily swore loud enough so that her neighbors could hear her, but there is no evidence of this, and the last time I checked, in the US, you are considered innocent until proven guilty.
Also, in response to #16, this is total nonsense. Toilets do not have any rights granted to them by the US constitution or any other laws I have heard of, therefore this arguement is mute.
Gives a new meaning to the word “swear jar.”
#26 – If there were only 6 million people on Earth, we’d have a low tech agrarian culture. You live that way if you want, but I’d prefer be left out. I can’t even stand looking at farmland as I drive from one major city to another.
#30 – Just the kind that similarly has the local language police here protecting the sensitive eyes of DU readers.
Now come on… if there were any kind of policing going on here, then how would you ever be able to read my foamy mouthed rants?
#33 – freedom of speach
Brother, I support you in this struggle and recognize your right to freedom of spelling too.
========
It is disturbing to me that we’ve grown into such a pack of busybodies and crybabies that even here on DU there are a subset who believe this woman deserved a citation for using profanity in her own home. If you can’t stand to hear a person say fuck, do us a favor and go get stranded on an island.
There is no such thing as dangerous words. Never has been. Never fucking will be.
Viva la TPLU!!
#43 – OFTLO,
I’m not talking about personal preference. I’m talking about the planet’s carrying capacity. I didn’t say where the 6 million would live or how. Perhaps everyone except iGW will live in NYC.
Now, remember, we do not have the option of exceeding the planet’s carrying capacity for long. We can continue to steal from our children (not mine, of course) to feed ourselves. But, we can’t do this for very long.
We can’t continue to exceed the carrying capacity for thousands of years. We probably can’t continue to do so for more than a generation or three. I don’t know how long we can continue to mine our topsoil and underground aquifers and rain forests and all of the other resources of our biosphere as if they were non-renewable resources.
Already, we have widespread desertification where the ground water has run out. Already, our resources are reduced to the point where we are able to get less food year over year rather than more. How long can this last? Your guess is as good as mine, unless your guess is thousands or millions of years.
43 OFTLO. You must have missed all the [Message deleted – See Comment Guidelines. – ed.]
“There is no such thing as dangerous words. Never has been. Never fucking will be.”
Tell that to the face of a 10 year old girl. And Michael Richards, he’d like to hear that too. Likewise Hitler. Then yell “fire” in a crowded theater.
What you really meant to say is “There is no such thing as dangerous words as long as you don’t give a hoot about anyone else.”
41. Mathias. What is meant is that this was not just one word spoken, it was a sustained tirade.
It hardly matters that these words were spoken in her own house if they disturb the peace in mine, just as if she had her stereo set to the threshold of pain in her own home.
RBG
RGB, you lump all the dubious, hatred and alarmist words as if they all held the same weight. Fuck is just a made up word and only offends someone because someone somewhere took away your freedom to say it in public. It’s just another way of saying fornicate. Why is fuck any worse than screw or hump? Why is shit considered crass and poo isn’t?
Teach all 3 year olds to say they just shit their pants, and the word would dissolve into everyday humdrum in no time.
The world is fornicated up because of stupid, irrational rules instigated by self-righteous religious poo heads.
M Scott, you are always so dramatic. Here’s a more likely scenario. The population increase of the world will eventually slow to a stop and begin to reverse as resources become scarce. Death by old age will be the norm, not mass starvation. Nature is already gently playing a hand. Male sperm density has been dropping over the last 50 years or so and may be an evolutionary adjustment to crowded populations. In all likelihood, the population of the world will find it’s maximum and back off, through self management, to a sustainable level. A big yawn all around.
You’re probably right. Let’s start that with the N-word in the easy environment of a night club with a comic using artistic freedom, ok? After all, that’s just another made up sound arbitrarily representing a person of color. Why should it upset anyone?
Except for those who know something of history and usage. As in “FUCK YOU, MOTHER-FUCKING ASSHOLE* Turns out, words can represent some pretty hurtful things. And are easier to carry around than an extra asshole for communication purposes.
Seemingly innocuous place names, like Chinaman Lake, British Columbia, have been renamed because it hurts a segment of our society.
What you seem not to understand is that some words can pain some people just as much as if you stuck them with a shiv.
And so, as in all segments of life, someone must make the decisions where the pain cutoff shall be. Bigger decisions than that – life & death decisions – are made by people every day.
RBG
*These words are used only to illustrate a point and are not directed towards any person living or dead. No mothers were harmed in the making of this post.
Again you are mixing words meant for hate with simple descriptive words of bodily functions or excrement.
There is NO SANE REASON that “fuck you” is worse than “hump you”. On the other hand mother-fucker is just as bad as mother-fornicater when it accuses someone of having sex with a mother that is not the wife of his children. If it refers to a man having sex with his wife who is also a mother, what’s the problem?
#49 – JimR,
I hope you’re right. I see no evidence of population shrinking at present. The rate of increase is barely slowing. This will need to be a much more conscious decision on the part of our species if we want it to be painless, or at least relatively so. I would love to be wrong about this. I would love to live out my life without ever finding out which of us is right. I only need 30 more years or so.
51. JimR. Wait a minute. Fuck you = hump you, and is not a statement of hate? Nice try. Regardless, even the N-word was used neutrally by millions and continues to be by some. Doesn’t matter.
RBG
All I can say about this is: What the fuck????
with a neighbor like that I’d take to loud grunting ……. often.
This Happened in my back yard. This got way out of hand. The local talk radio stations been yellin this for days. This became a joke.
The only swearing that’s objectionable is the dull repetitive kind. If it’s creative, it’s fine.
It there’s one effing thing I can’t effing stand, it’s effing effers that effing say effing eff every other effing word that effing comes out of their effing mouth.
eff the effing effers!
Shouting fire in a theater… Using racial epitaphs at members of that race… leveling death threats… these are all examples of actions which can be dangerous. The words in and of themselves are not dangerous.
Shouting “fuck” at a clogged toilet might annoy you for the short time you can hear it, but it won’t hurt you… won’t hurt any children… won’t bring chaos to the neighborhood unless YOU are too immature to just deal with it.
This morning, I slept in and at 10 AM I heard loud music from my neighbor. Did I bitch? No. Why? because my neighbor is quiet from 9PM to 9AM, rarely isn’t quiet, and likes music (which they played for about 40 minutes) and is entitled to reasonable enjoyment of their home which means I tolerate a little annoyance from time to time as I would expect my neighbor to tolerate from me. The exact same thing would apply if my neighbor were cursing their toilet.
The notion that words are dangerous makes anyone who claims it sound like a loon.
This is a stupid story and a stupid debate… or it would be if there weren’t so many people whose sensibilities are so delicate that they can barely survive hearing the word fuck once in a while.
All of you anti-words people are busybodies and crybabies.
Believe me, it is dangerous to say Fuck to my children. And for that matter, a danger to civil order capable of creating anger and a whole peck of hurt. You pretend Fuck is a word like the made up words Flootsblonk or Kleepstilk. But it is not. As I already mentioned, it’s the understood meanings and associations of the words, not the words themselves that are the problem. Otherwise we’d also have problems with foreign swear words we don’t understand. Besides, in this case, we are not talking about *once* in a while.
Now, “once in a while,” go to a busy playground, step on a soap box, and begin a swearing tirade to understand how this all works.
RBG