[X] : Folsom Street Fair Not For Children Cripes. The worst part of this is that most SF gays are not subscribers to this lifestyle and many would like to adopt. When they try to adopt children, they’ll have this thrown in their face at every turn. Brilliant. Watch how this story goes national.
Some of the most unlikely attendees of Sunday�s kinky leather fetish festival were under four feet tall.
Two-year-olds Zola and Veronica Kruschel waddled through Folsom Street Fair amidst strangers in fishnets and leather crotch pouches, semi and fully nude men.
The twin girls who were also dressed for the event wore identical lace blouses, floral bonnets and black leather collars purchased from a pet store.
Fathers Gary Beuschel and John Kruse watched over them closely. They were proud to show the twins off.
“They will see more than the kids with moms and dads in Iowa,” said Beuschel, who wanted to expose his children to San Francisco’s diverse community. “Every parent has to decide for themselves what is right for them. And I respect that. And we decided that this is right for our children.”
Beuschel and his girls were at the 22nd Folsom Street Fair, an annual leather event in San Francisco�s South of Market district, which showcased outrageous costumes, fetish attire, and a community obsessed with bondage, whipping, and spanking.
found by Paul Turner
#42 – Mark this day. I pretty much agree with you.
#43 – Among other reasons why you’re full of shit is that anonymous gay sex gave – and continues to give – the world the wonderful gift of AIDS, and more recently, the return of syphillis.
Bullshit. AIDS doesn’t care about sexual orientation and AIDS doesn’t exist because of sex. It’s merely sexually transmitted. I sure don’t won’t to downplay the seriousness of AIDS, but sex (gay or otherwise) didn’t cause AIDS to pop into reality.
#44 – The simple fact is that there is a very vocal segment of society who seems to think that anyone who isn’t like them is just wrong and that unless we follow the most restrictive and life-sapping norms of the 1950s Nuclear Family ideals we are doomed. I think they are full of shit.
That needs to be stressed. I’ll do it…
The simple fact is that there is a very vocal segment of society who seems to think that anyone who isn’t like them is just wrong and that unless we follow the most restrictive and life-sapping norms of the 1950s Nuclear Family ideals we are doomed. I think they are full of shit.
OhForTheLoveOf boldly bolding where bold needs to be bolded.
#49 – I have no need to parade my hobbies, rated “G” or not, on the street. Why will these people wilt and die if they have to keep their fetishes at home, where they belong?
The Supreme Court has protected the right of the Klu Klux Klan to hold their insidious and hate filled rallys. Churches are allowed to hold street fairs. Schools have homecoming parades. Bill Goodman has the Gun and Knife Show. Sex doesn’t belong at home just because you are a squeamish little nancy-boy. It’s part of being human and humans should be allowed to celebrate it.
I often wonder how great this nation would be if the Europeans had just killed the Puritans rather than shipping them off to slaughter the natives.
Freedom of speech is protected under the First Amendment.
Public nudity and public sexual activity are not.
Nothing “puritan” about it. Outside of a handful of countries in northern Europe, this is the norm worldwide.
John –
Here is a somewhat related story which may interest you:
Firemen Fired For Shining Light On Naughty Activity In Bushes
John Dvorak was right when he said that most gays are not subscribers to this lifestyle. I am a gay man and I look at public fetish shows the way the majority of bigots on this blog have been. I find them repulsive. I understand where this anti-gay bigotry is coming from.
This talk of a gay-agenda is BS.
I find the indoctination by religious families to be just as abhorrent. I feel rage that there is nothing I can do to free these innocent children from inevitable acclimation to irrational thinking.
You straights have no conception of what conpicuous community communicates to closeted gays and others with low self-esteem. Homosexuality in repressive societies (I take it for granted that the US in a repressive society for homosexuals, you may not) is a perversion. The line between vanilla and nasty is far more obvious for the straights.
I have attended evangelical revivals, wiccan festivals, many ethnic and cultural events, among others. Call me a relativist but there is deviant behaviour everywhere that is new to an individual.
I have a group of friends who are polyamorous, wiccans, and BDSM performers. They raise their children aware of their lifestyle. So far, nothing has gone wrong, save reactions from the community.
I would rather have my children see deviant behavour become normalized than what festers in the dark, ashamed.
#70 Public nudity and sex may not be normal in ‘merica but it is in many places around the world. You seem clueless to this fact.
Here’s a little something you don’t seem to grasp, Ben – and OFTLO…
Sex is, pretty much universally in human society, a private activity. Not principally because of shame, but because it is an intimate, highly personal activity – and each individual’s performance and preferences are absolutely certain to be abhorrent to others, no matter how normal those acts may be.
As the old joke-which-isn’t-a-joke goes, ‘Perversion is what the other guy likes.’ We don’t engage in this activity, in the performance of which we are extremely vulnerable, in public. And for the reasons mentioned – PLUS the fact that sexually immature children cannot comprehend the acts or the desires behind them, yet can easily be deeply traumatized by witnessing some of those completely normal acts, in addition to ‘not in public’ we also do ‘not in front of the children.’
Shame don’t enter into it. Even nudists don’t fuck around in front of prepubescents any more than the rest of us. It’s just common fucking sense.
As far as this compulsion to act out in public, spare me the horseshit. Every city in this country has leather bars, drag bars, whatever you like. You want to ponce about in S&M gear, you are free to do so to your heart’s content – nobody’s stopping you. You do it indoors, among like-minded people is how you do it.
By you jokers’ “logic” we should, since it’s a ‘normal’ part of life’ that we ‘shouldn’t be ashamed of’, we should think nothing of just dropping your pants and shitting in public, right? Anyone who objects is a prude and an ‘anti-shitting-American’ bigot. They’re just frustrated because they’re so ashamed of a natural function that they think they have to do it behind closed doors.
Sometimes, my PC-brainwashed friends, it don’ have a goddamn thing to do with ‘prejudice’ or ‘oppression’ or ‘repression’ or any of your other favorite buzzwords. Sometimes it’s simply about acting like a civilized person and not expecting others to like having your personal activities – which you are totally free to enjoy among those who share your tastes – shoved in their face, or their children’s.
• • • • • • •
AND, from the ‘Don’t let reality interfere with your religious or PC ideology’ department, we have this absurdity, which was laid to rest some time back – sorrry you didn’t get the memo:
“AIDS doesn’t care about sexual orientation and AIDS doesn’t exist because of sex. It’s merely sexually transmitted.”
And guess what? No one said it did. That’s a diversion. Of course AIDS is sexually transmitted. But – IN NORTH AMERICA AND EUROPE – male homosexuals were – and are – the primary vector of the disease. And this is for a very simple reason; promiscuity.
Like it or don’t – and, I should point out, a considerable but less stridently vocal segment of the GLBT community doesn’t like it, either – a much higher percentage of male homosexuals have multiple sex partners than other groups. The ranking, from most promiscuous to least, is as follows:
male homosexuals
male heterosexuals
female heterosexuals
female homosexuals
By some manner of astonishing coïncidence that no one can explain, the ranking of these groups by percentage suffering from any and all STDs is identical! I mean, who’dathunkit?
Promiscuity is strongly correlated to incidence of STDs. And a sizable portion of the male homosexual subculture belongs to a sub-subculture which centers on compulsively having as much sex as possible, with as many different, preferably anonymous, partners as possible. The participants in this pathological lifestyle also engage in related activities which exacerbate the risk factors in having multiiple sex partners, and are risks in themselves – specifically, alcohol, cocaine and methamphetamine abuse are tremendously higher than in the gen pop, and safe-sex practices have, after a period of increase, retreated to levels last seen in the period leading up to the peak of the AIDS epidemic, i.e. the mid-’80s.
The promiscuous ‘cruising’ gay subculture – which, to many uninformed people, basing their estimation on the most visible gay proponents, makes up the majority of male homosexuals (and it is NOT) – exhibits, and has consistently, persistently exhibited a well-documented constellation of pathologies, but the factors that are common across the board are compulsive, sociopathically motivated anonymous sex and multiple-substance abuse. STDs, suicidal ideation and child molestation are far more frequent in this group than in the gen pop.
Needless to say, those not in severe denial would prefer that those unfortunate aspects of their subculture be swept under the rug – and the tactics to which they will resort to to that end are often ruthlessly sociopathic in nature, as many conventional male and female homosexuals have learned over the last 20 years or so. They are shouted down, disenfranchised, marginalized, sabotaged and ostracized.
Straights rarely if ever even get a hint of the constant struggle of gays, Lesbians, bis, and transpeople, whose priorities are to simply be accepted in mainstream society and live normal lives, to be recognized and heard over the strident militancy of the minority which has no interest outside of promoting their mentally, physically and socially defective and destructive lifestyle.
Needless to say, you will never be motivated to look beyond the propaganda, into the far-from-homogenous GLBT community, and find out just who is fighting for what – and why…
Now, back to your bliss, ignoranti…
Kinda lost track of what the “issue” is here- – – so I re-read the OP.
This was NOT a gay parade, life-style or otherwise.
This WAS a “leather fetish festival.”
Kiddie worthy? No, don’t think so. I don’t think kiddies should be “exposed” to such adult material either to approve or dissapprove of it.
All good and bad things in their own time.
#73 – “AIDS doesn’t care about sexual orientation and AIDS doesn’t exist because of sex. It’s merely sexually transmitted.”
And guess what? No one said it did.
You said in #43: – anonymous gay sex gave – and continues to give – the world the wonderful gift of AIDS
So, in fact, you said it.
And no argument has ever won me over that includes the refrain: “won’t you please think about the children”
=====
And Frank… If you don’t want to see people fuck, don’t go to the Fucking Festival.
OFTLO – Child psychology is a very contentious field, with tons of differing theories and interpretations – but I invite you or Ben to come up with one single citation from any authority on child psych which even suggests that prepubescent children may witness displays of graphic adult sexual activity with no fear of significant trauma. One – just ONE…
My advice is, don’t waste your time. Only a pervert or an idiot would deliberately expose a child to adult sex, let alone hardcore kink…
Ben – here’s a principle you apparently don’t grasp; if you don’t know whether or not such exposure might be psychologcally harmful to a child, then you don’t know, right? And when you don’t know, and a defenseless child’s well-being is what’s at stake – you don’t take chances with what you don’t know, now do you? When in doubt – and which you, not being a psych professional in any way shape or form, definitely are, or should be – you go the safe route. You don’t gamble a child’s safety on some dopey, vague, uninformed suppositions, do you? Because that bit of reckless disregard of a child’s well-being is exactly what you suggested.
Exactly as with your religious arguments-from-ignorance, you really don’t have much use for knowledge, logic, truth or any of the rest of that boring, irrelevant hard-for-you-to-grasp stuff, do you?
Paul –
“Some”, not “most”. You’re the one who’s clueless.
I won’t go to their houses or bars or clubs.
I shouldn’t have to see them fucking in the streets or public parks. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
So, do you ever think about the children?
#35
“but perversion is significantly higher among male homosexuals.”
That’s because we don’t have to deal with picky bitches.
#41
“while strait married people with six figure incomes and squeaky-clean records have to wait years for a child. ”
Because in my experience, that kind of people are even more perverse than gay or lesbians, plus; with their income they can afford to adopt children faster.
76–Lauren==We have a good example right now. That 3 year old girl raped by that prison con friend of the mother. Now, its 4 years later and the investigators say the girl appears to be well ajusted. Now, at three years old, I accept the kid was “too young” to even comprehend what was going on, but I’m also sure the kid benefitted from the adults around her not going apeshit over the incident as well.
By and large, its not what happens to you, but how you react to what happens to you that matters. And in the case of kiddies, its how the adults around you react that you take your key from.
Now, a leather fetish culture may be hard to conceive as healthy in any way, but if that was “the given” then praying to Allah 3 times a day might seem quite inconceiveable as well.
It is “sociology,” cul\ture, and the glory of the adaptability of the human species. Don’t take it away.
#44
“but from what I gather a liberal is wish-washy flake and a conservative is an unfeeling asshole. Not sure where I’d fit into that, generally I’d a thought I’d be more in the the asshole category, as wishy-washy isn’t my thing,”
Go like me, be a centrist and claim you have your feet on the ground while the rest act like monkeys throwing turds at each other.
#68
“Which begs the question, why do they need approval of a conduct? do they feel so bad about themselves that they need to seek everybody else’s? I thought it was al about seeking a way to feel god about themselves But seems not.”
Maybe you should ask the same thing to the samba girls who only wear plastic dots to cover their nipples, I bet you have no problem approving these women parading all over the streets.
#73
“IN NORTH AMERICA AND EUROPE – male homosexuals were – and are – the primary vector of the disease. And this is for a very simple reason; promiscuity.”
That’s because unlike straight males, we don’t have to invest 3 hours and $500 just to get the other person interested in us.
Since I arrived late at the comment party here’s my two cents: PEOPLE DO STUPID THINGS ON PARADES.
Gregory, Bryan, and MikeN….you seem to like to fling around the term *bigot* a lot…..the term has no real meaning anymore because guys like you have abused it by using it to silience anyone with an opinion that is different than yours.
I truely don’t care what you do or who you do in bed. It’s not my concern or business. I don’t say that because I want to be cool like OFTLO either……I mean it. But there are appropriate and inappropriate things for young children to see or hear on a public street. It matters not what the sexual orientation of the partcipates in this **open air sex orgy**(yes gregory….i said it again) is…..since it is an admission through security affair, the policy should be no children under a certain age…15, 16…18….whatever and enforced. I’ve been to the Folsum Street Fair, twice, with my Uncle(who is gay) and with my best friend(who is gay) and neither are into leather and S&M. These acts of public sex, masturbating, and nudity are not random Ben….if they were, then your policy of covering the kids eye’s or diverting them might work, but at this fair, you would have to blindfold your kids and walk them in the gate and immediatly back out to divert the little buggers.
Someone above thinks sex in an venue is fine or else your a bigot. Well, grow up fuckwit. Public parks and public restrooms are not places for anyone to be having sex…..period. Neither is the public streets. I’ve been to several Gay Pride parades in various cities and while they usually are provocative, they aren’t obscene per se……but this particular fair is obscene, and thats why you must be admitted to it, so solve the problem by limiting who can attend….simple as that.
Bobbo, OFTLO, your wrong…..there must be limits on what children can be exposed to. Life’s a bitch, but there is an appropriate time and place for everything.
OFTLO….you advocate exposing your child to anything and everything…..then proclaim they shouldn’t see violence, or military hardware or Republicans……..so Mr. Hypocrite which is it…..set limits or free access to all forms of perversion. 🙂
#77 – So, do you ever think about the children?
No.
That’s why children have parents.
#84 – OFTLO….you advocate exposing your child to anything and everything…..
No. I didn’t. I never did. And I’m not even going to read up to double check. I know I didn’t.
I said, it doesn’t matter, and that means it doesn’t matter and it doesn’t mean I advocate exposing your child to anything… In fact, if we are talking about anyone’s child other than mine… Do what you want. Those aren’t my kids.
Look. These dads took a pair of two year old girls to a bondage themed street fair. I say, who cares? They did not tie the pair of girls up and force them to watch as the dad’s gang raped a 12 year old Chinese boy they bought from a shipping crate on the docks. They aren’t raising them in a brothel. There is no evidence of any kind that these girls experience anything unusual in everyday life, but on this day they were at this event.
Who gives a fuck? If you really think these kids, as a result of this one street fair, are gonna grow up to be deranged psycho killers, then you read too many “True Crime” pulp novels.
Would I have taken them there? No. Will it damage them? Those girls are two. If you are willing to wait 16 years for a payoff, I’ll put my money on “no” today.
====
But here is the bigger issue, now that I’m thinking about it… and that is this… all of you, and me too, really ought to shut the fuck up. Here’s why…
If John posted a story about a school system imposing a mandatory class about (insert controversial morality issue here) and parents objected… we’d all be talking about how the “government schools” have no right stepping in and making decisions about how to teach morality in place of parents. None of you are gonna stand by while someone else imposes their values on your kid. As parents, only you have the right and responsibility to guide your child morally and spiritually.
But John posted a story about parents choosing to take two little tiny girls to a sexually themed street festival, and all of a sudden I read that most of you are perfectly happy to second guess the parents and make judgment calls for them. Fine… But you are a hypocrite. Not me.
Do you want to be your kid’s parent? Or do you want to be 60 million kids’ parent? Who better to raise your kids? You or the church? You or Congress? You or a gaggle of middle aged blog nerds? You can’t have this both ways.
Do you want a totalitarian state that controls child raising and imposes its judgment ahead of the parents? Or do you want to raise your own kids as you believe is best?
I don’t give me that crap about child abuse and bad parenting… This argument centers on one afternoon in the lives of a pair of two year olds who appear to be just fine… These aren’t abused kids. So… You wanna take them from daddy and daddy and raise them under a community standard? Or do you want the same right to raise your kids that they have?
86–Pedro==I know what I was thinking, and that is entirely consistent and plain in what I posted, so what are you thinking of? Hint–I bet I didn’t say it and its coming from YOU! as is much of the posting here.
Let me ask you all (except OFTLO as he obviously gets it!)==do parents have the major impact on their childrens development of values and personality in their formative years or not?
If so, then regardless of what the “issue” is, its how the parents indoctrinate their children about the subject at hand that directs the results–regardless of what it is. Hitting your head on the floor, going to Church, Halloween, Leather Fetish Parades, or being raped.
Now, what am I saying besides what I said?
bobbo – & whoever else –
A given child – this one, that one over there? – might be, owing to their development thus far, totally unaffected by the sight of two leather bears going at it with all the paraphenalia you can imagine. But another, apparently no-different kid – maybe even a sib of the unaffected one – accidently wanders in on his father atop his mother, and he misconstrues what’s going on, and has nightmares about it the rest of his life – and can never have a normal sexual relationship because of it.
Such things happen – and this is the point: We don’t have any way to know if a particular child will suffer permanent mental trauma from witnessing adult sexual activity. It’s impossible. Many, many kids throughout history have done so with no ill effects whatsoever – but because a significant percentage of others DO have serious negative reactions, and we DON”T KNOW WHO WILL AND WHO WON’T – then the only rational thing to do is to take all reasonable steps to prevent it from occurring.
And despite your blanket disclaimer to the contrary, OFTLO, we ALL have the responsibility, as just one part of the Social Contract, to look out for the offspring of others, not just our own. Jay-zus – even animals do as much. You’re not required to raise them or feed them – but you are expected to not do things in public – where they have every right to be – that they shouldn’t be exposed to.
Or do you do 80 through school zones, figuring that if you hit a kid, that it was his parents’ duty to look out for his safety, not yours?
#90
“It took me a Hell of a long time to get past the fucked-up games that such a huge % of American girls play when they’re single. ”
Amen! Specially those who were teenagers or your adults in the 80s, for some strange reason those are the most f*cked up individuals. At least the Y gen kids are mostly slutty.
“But I, fortunately, lived in the hippie counterculture and encountered girls who made it a point to avoid those games – and some who never learned them.”
Gotta love unshaven pussy 🙂
OTFL –
No.
That’s why children have parents.
Oh, what a hilariously stupid evasion. What a classic example of circular “logic”.
You say that parents don’t need to worry about their children, then you turn around and say that we don’t need to worry about the children because that’s only for their parents to do.
Hmmm… the blockquotes got messed up.
“So, do you ever think about the children?” was my original post, and
“No… That’s why children have parents. ” was OTFL’s (lame) reply.
Not a valid comparison, Angel.
Partially covered breasts is not the same as full nudity, let alone public sex, whipping, and penis twisting and stretching.
Before this most certainly contentious discussion disappears down the stack, I would like to add a coda to it:
– the duality of sexual reproduction was “invented” by Nature more than half a billion years ago, probably because it enables evolutionary diversity.
– Anyone who tries to say that mono-cultural sexuality is somehow “normal” is going to have a long hard climb convincing the rest of the world of it.
– That said, though, if we want to call ourselves truly “civilized” beings, we judge others not by what they look like, or where they come from, or their gender orientation, or any other of the panoply of differences in people… that we judge them by their individual character, instead of amorphous groups that disagree with what we’re used to believing in.
Accomplishing that, we take over from Nature, and successfully get away from the ignorant and destructive tribal behaviors from whence we came.
Then, it’s on to anthrogenic global warming. Anybody got any ideas?
Oops! I put a minus sign in the close tag instead of a slash, after the emphasized “individual character” phrase… Been away from html too long. (sigh)
Yes, and in my judgement, these individuals have serious problems.
89–Lauren, you “almost” say that parents should not have sex because their children might be traumatized if they walk in on it? Pretty stupid thing to imply.
As to what you flat out say–some kid (or his sibling?) might be traumatized over seeing the Leather Fetish Parade therefore it should be outlawed? In fact, you have NO idea what percentage of kiddies are so traumatized and I put it to you, that in fact a greater number of adults are traumatized by such behavior. Course, I also don’t have any figures at all either, just following your example and talking out my asshole.
I’m getting tired, so I will just dig my heels in. I prefer FREEDOM over restriction even if I don’t like the expression there of. Public nudity a few times a year could be outlawed and I wouldn’t care, and where allowed, I wouldn’t go–but others, being free, should be allowed to make their own choices which by extension means making those types of choices for their kiddies too. Most bad parenting takes place behind closed doors.
#90 – “When you snap to the fact that the majority of humans – straight / gay, m / f, young / old – are not really worth wasting your time on, life gets a lot easier…”
Well said….
#94
“Partially covered breasts is not the same as full nudity, let alone public sex, whipping, and penis twisting and stretching.”
Partially covered breasts? Jebus, they use suction cups to cover their nipples.