I heard a concise list of exactly why we shouldn’t have gone into Iraq on the radio yesterday. No WMDs, no meaningful al Qaeda influence (if any) prior to invasion, Iraq was the counterweight holding Iran in it’s place, and so on. Saddam was a bad man, but he, unfortunately, was key to holding the region together. Read this whole, short, insightful article on the Bizarro World current views of the man we allowed to wipe this all away. Then take a look at of some of what we got in return. Yeah, war is hell, but what should we call it when the war and the suffering was unnecessary?
They made a wasteland and called it peace.
~ Tacitus
He seemed almost broken to me. His voice raspy, his eyes watery, his affect exhausted, his facial expression almost bewildered. I thought I would feel angry; but I found myself verging toward pity. The case was so weak, the argument so thin, the evidence for optimism so obviously strained that one wondered whom he thought he was persuading. And the way he framed his case was still divorced from the reality we see in front of our nose: that Iraq is not, as he still seems to believe, full of ordinary people longing for democracy and somehow stymied solely by “extremists” or al Qaeda or Iran, but a country full of groups of people who cannot trust one another, who are still living in the wake of unimaginable totalitarian trauma, who have murdered and tortured and butchered each other in pursuit of religious and ethnic pride and honor for centuries. This is what Bush cannot recognize: there is no Iraq. There are no Iraqis. There may have been at one point – but what tiny patina of national unity that once existed to counter primordial sectarian loyalty was blown away by the anarchy of the Rumsfeld-Franks invasion. The president’s stunning detachment from this reality tragically endures – whether out of cynicism or delusion or, more worryingly, a simple intellectual inability to understand the country he is determined that the United States occupy for the rest of our lives.
#28
MM your point is? The foreign oil companies role is not “I am taking all of the profits”. The division of the profits refers to the early part about splitting amongst the Iraqi’s. You need to focus here but the article is making more than one point about the oil situation in Iraqi and none about conspiracys by anyone. Turbid and murky logic two more signs of the conspiracy theorist.
#31,
Ok, you are right, there was and is no conspiracy by the Bush administration to get at the oil and oil profits in Iraq. Therefor they are idiots, and so is anyone who went along with their idiotic plan. Only an idiot would invade an oil rich country without a plan to extract the oil resources for their own use.
I pwned you again. Care for another round?
#30
Here read it yourself:
“An agreement on how to divide oil profits among Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish areas is one of 18 key benchmarks of progress to be reviewed by the U.S. in September.”
Where does it say Foreign oil companies?
Other quote:
“a key U.S. benchmark of progress in Iraq, a law to divide oil revenues equitably among the provinces,”
Still no mention of Foreign Oil Companies…While leaping to conclusions is good exercise it seldoms makes for a good argument but at least your heart will be in better shape.
Pwned yet again…
http://tinyurl.com/yqpy72
Case mothing fucking closed.
[Please use TinyUrl.com for overly long URLs. – ed.]
#32
Do you measure your resting heart beat so you can get the most benefit from all your leaping to conclusions? I think the AMA recommends about a 68 resting and then about 170 at peak exercise. Based on your last post I think you need to back it down a little and try some less strenuous activity. Of course you look like you have the potential of being a world class assumption maker and an olympic conclusion leaper which will help in escaping the UN when they send out the helicopters after you.
#35,
Thats when I know I won the argument. When they are so totally pwned that they stop talking about the subject and just start insulting me.
Pwned yet again. You finished yet?
KVolk,
Dude, I found your song!! Check it out!
Artist: Chumbawumba
Song: Tubthumping
Lyrics:
We’ll be singing
When we’re winning
We’ll be singing…
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
Pissing the night away
Pissing the night away
He drinks a whisky drink
He drinks a vodka drink
He drinks a lager drink
He drinks a cider drink
He sings the songs that remind him
Of the good times
He sings the songs that remind him
Of the better times
Oh Danny Boy
Danny Boy
Danny Boy
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
Pissing the night away
Pissing the night away
He drinks a whisky drink
He drinks a vodka drink
He drinks a lager drink
He drinks a cider drink
He sings the songs that remind him
Of the good times
He sings the songs that remind him
Of the better times
Don’t cry for me
Next door neighbour
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (we’ll be singing)
You’re never going to keep me down (when we’re winning)
I get knocked down
But I get up again (we’ll be singing)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (we’ll be singing)
You’re never going to keep me down (when we’re winning)
I get knocked down
But I get up again (we’ll be singing)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
I get knocked down
But I get up again (pissing the night away)
You’re never going to keep me down
#34
I think it’s time for you to take your nap now. The Kurds sought the contact with Hunt not the other way. Make sure your nurse gives extra medication this hour please.
Hint the next time you get beat that baddly in a fight, JUST STAY DOWN!
#37
Aren’t you suppose to be in class right now?
get a room
Now that it becomes apparent that help from other countries might become increasingly necessary, I can’t help but wonder if alienating some of those countries the way we did before and after our premature “mission accomplished” declaration will ever be seen as the huge blunder that it was.
I seem to remember a time when all things French were held in such utter disdain that childish Congressmen spent valuable time discussing and voting to insist that the House cafeteria serve only “freedom fries.”
The Bush administration banned countries that didn’t support the U.S. invasion of Iraq from competing for prime reconstruction contracts, the modern-day form that “spoils of war” now take. Some of those countries may be less than anxious to help us out of the quagmire we find ourselves in.
>>#33 – Still no mention of foreign oil companies
Did you flunk out of Special Ed, or what?
“But the report, obtained by the Blotter on ABCNews.com, says the issues the three sides are too far apart to agree on are the “role of foreign companies in the oil sector” and the division of the oil profits.”
Can you read it? the sticking points includ “THE ROLE OF FOREIGN OIL COMPANIES IN THE OIL SECTOR”.
Foreign
Oil
Companies
If I say it slower, is it easier to understand?
#44
Now let’s see if I can help you with the thinking part here “The role of foreign oil companies” is different than “the division of oil profits”. See how that’s two different statments. Though of course if you want to ignore the obvious and just make up your own conclusion…….wait my bad that’s your real point isn’t it. Sorry to interupt your delusion Pinky, feel free to continue to rant about hidden conspiracies and evil rulers plotting to rule the world.
>>“The role of foreign oil companies” is different than “the division
>>of oil profits”. See how that’s two different statments.
The only thing I can imagine is that your application to Special Ed was rejected.
If you’re trying to tell me that the primary “role of foreign oil companies” is not to extract a profit….well. I just don’t have any snappy comeback to such a breath-takingly absurd notion. My condolences to you, it must be hard to get along in the workaday world with that sort of intelligence quotient.
Are you contending that the “role of foreign oil companies” is to supply flowers for the Iraqis to give us as “liberators”, and go home empty-handed?
Are you serious, or are you just jerking our chains?
#45
How about they are there under contract to rebuild and develop the oil fields for the Iraquis for which they will be paid but maybe not all of the Iraquis want the jobs for that to be foreigners or under foreign supervision so they want to stipulate some different guide lines. They may also want to stipulate who will decide on future exploration and will that be undertaken by a foreign vompany or will they wait and let a reconsituted Iraqi oil company do that……..more clear I hope Senor Condiment.
>>How about… blah blah blah blah
No doubt about it. You didn’t make the grade for Special Ed.
If there’s any doubt in your mind that the first and only reason President Cheney’s Energy Cabal wants anything to do with Iraq is to MAKE MONEY, you don’t have a mind.
In the view of the Energy Cabal, there’s one and only one raison d’être, and that is to make money. money Money MONEY! And if they want more than the Iraqis are willing to give, well there you have it: A “sticking point”.
#37 – Holy Crap!
I didn’t know you could post something that long. Gives me some ideas….
#47
Well hot dog topping man you certainly have the ability to follow a single track idea well to bad any other form of thought sends you into apoplexy. Have you been able to increase your med’s yet for the brain stem injury you suffered when being born? Don’t get to uptight or you’ll hemoraghe that last pint of brain cells you have and drool all over your key board and shock your self to death……on second thought…never mind that last bit.
>>#49 blah. blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah.
So. Is it your contention that President Cheney’s Energy Cabal has another reason for being in Iraq OTHER THAN making money? If so, please share the secret with us.
They would be willing to hire Martians and explore 1 cubic inch of sand, as long as they went home with the requisite number of billion$ of dollar$ to make it worth their while.
Or are you sticking with that “they just want to distribute flowers, pro bono, to the natives” explanation?
Give it up, dude. you are, to quote Mr A, “pwned”. Cheney and his Energy Cabal are going to come home filty rich(er), or they’re going to turn the place into the middle-eastern equivalent of a dustbowl.
Other than the money, what the fuck would have been the purpose of sacrificing all those American (and other) lives?? Cheney’s evil, but he’s not stupid. You don’t make billions off of war profiteering if you’re a dummy.
AND,
Where is all that OIL they promised was coming OUT of iraq, to pay for this fight??
wasnt that mentioned about 5-6 years ago??
They would fix up the wells and pumps, and use them to pay for the war??
>>They would fix up the wells and pumps, and use them
>>to pay for the war??
Oh fuck the war! The American taxpayers are footing that bill. The only reason to fix up the wells and pumps is for more money Money MONEY for the Energy Cabal and in the back door to President Cheney’s stock portfolio.
And until that happens (or until Dumbya and his handlers are tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail in the next election), the war will continue. At taxpayer expense.
Your tax dollars at work.
#52
Do you ever have a point or do you just like proving that you can find new ways to expose your ignorance and stupidity to the world. Stop reading comic books for insight and watching movies for ideas and getting conversational ideas from video game dead heads. By the way up the voltage when you go in for your next treatment.
>>Stop reading comic books for insight and watching
>>movies for ideas blah blah blah blah….
Tee hee, Folkster! I guess this means you are on your back, baring your belly in submission. If you have any retorts to the points I have repeatedly made (to a deafening silence of response), please make them. If not, feel free to STFU.
Word up, dawg.
“perpetual war”?????
This term is being used in an interesting way. At least I find it rather interesting considering the difference between the 6 years of US involvement vs. more than 1000 years of the thing that continues to fight against the US. I find it interesting that this war is labeled “Bush’s war” when the US was given this war before Bush even became president. I wouldn’t kiss the rear of any US president, but thinking about this in terms of hatred towards Bush makes no sense. The only aspect of all this that has anything to do with Bush is that he seems to be the only one that cares enough to fight back (whatever his real motivation). I would like someone to explain in clear language how Husein could have used WMD on his own people and at the same time not have any of it. I would also like someone to explain why if it was all about the Bush family against Husein…why the US is still in Iraq? If it’s for the oil, the how could it be about Husein? It seems to me that all these mid-east leaders are (or were) working together in unison against the US. What difference would it make if the WMD was or was not in Iraq anyway if he was the one supplying the money and the training and new recruits? I think it’s a valid point to ask where all that promised oil is? Isn’t this war said to be for oil?
I think that too many people get so caught up in the “hate Bush” emotionalism and forget about the larger picture. 3700 dead soldiers is pretty light for a six year war (and it’s really not six years yet). I want someone to explain who it is fighting against the US and also fighting FOR Iraq. Who is fighting for Iraq? I would submit that anyone in Iraq fighting for Iraq would be more likely to side with the US.
>>3700 dead soldiers is pretty light for a six year war
Yeah, chump change, right? And slaughtered for such a good cause, too. Gotta love those oil dollars, right?
“what should we call it when the war and the suffering was unnecessary?
A crime. Simple as that.
I didn’t know a more aggressive anti-war professor before the war started than myself. Every prediction of mine came true (although it wasn’t very difficult if you were paying attention), but I now firmly believe that we must stay until we “fix what we broke”. Leaving Iraq in the state that we have put it in would be, believe it or not, an even bigger crime. The bloodshed due to the US’s actions would be unconscionable. We must stay and fix what we destroyed, not only to ensure the well-being of the people that we have now put in harms way (yes, far worse than anything Saddam ever did), but in an attempt to regain if nothing more than just a little status we have now as a moral state. Yes, that may be impossible now, but we should still do what’s right, and that is to fix Iraq. End of story.
>>but I now firmly believe that we must stay until we “fix what we broke”.
Well, did you see anything in Petraeus’ slides or Dumbya’s speech that gives any inkling of what the Little King is planning to do to fix what we broke?
All I see is the same old, same old. A little slower slinking out than the Dems want, but slinking out just the same.
There’s no evidence of progress; the single “benchmark” that “progress” has been made on is unraveling before our very eyes.
So, other than throwing another few thousand Americans into Dumbya’s meatgrinder, what’s the “path forward to victory”??
I mentioned to someone yesterday about how bush lives in a “delusional playground” – i really think thats the best explanation for whats going on…. cant we get off of this crazy ass ride now? please? kthx
#54
Well Guldens man I think the only point you ever make is the one that you put your hat on after all just shouting ” MONEY, MONEY, MONEY” isn’t so much a point as it an affirmation of your collaspe into total mental melt down. I was wondering how you see the keyboard to type with the strait jacket on though? Are you in a circus or something?