I heard a concise list of exactly why we shouldn’t have gone into Iraq on the radio yesterday. No WMDs, no meaningful al Qaeda influence (if any) prior to invasion, Iraq was the counterweight holding Iran in it’s place, and so on. Saddam was a bad man, but he, unfortunately, was key to holding the region together. Read this whole, short, insightful article on the Bizarro World current views of the man we allowed to wipe this all away. Then take a look at of some of what we got in return. Yeah, war is hell, but what should we call it when the war and the suffering was unnecessary?
They made a wasteland and called it peace.
~ Tacitus
He seemed almost broken to me. His voice raspy, his eyes watery, his affect exhausted, his facial expression almost bewildered. I thought I would feel angry; but I found myself verging toward pity. The case was so weak, the argument so thin, the evidence for optimism so obviously strained that one wondered whom he thought he was persuading. And the way he framed his case was still divorced from the reality we see in front of our nose: that Iraq is not, as he still seems to believe, full of ordinary people longing for democracy and somehow stymied solely by “extremists” or al Qaeda or Iran, but a country full of groups of people who cannot trust one another, who are still living in the wake of unimaginable totalitarian trauma, who have murdered and tortured and butchered each other in pursuit of religious and ethnic pride and honor for centuries. This is what Bush cannot recognize: there is no Iraq. There are no Iraqis. There may have been at one point – but what tiny patina of national unity that once existed to counter primordial sectarian loyalty was blown away by the anarchy of the Rumsfeld-Franks invasion. The president’s stunning detachment from this reality tragically endures – whether out of cynicism or delusion or, more worryingly, a simple intellectual inability to understand the country he is determined that the United States occupy for the rest of our lives.
“Saddam was a bad man, but he, unfortunately, was key to holding the region together.”
very true, Saddam executed terrorists. Even though he did not have WMDs he didnt let inspectors in because the fear of him having WMDs kept a full civil war from breaking out…the people who would rise up were afraid. He brutally held his country together, but is it really anymore brutal than what we are forced to do right now?
Just because he got his way is no reason to get pissy.
The interesting question now is, if things go to shit after the ‘improvements’ from the surge, will this warrant another surge? It isn’t like the left can stop it: They couldn’t stop the first one, and can’t make him expedite a withdraw.
Perpetual war for perpetual peace: It’s fun to watch the hacks squirm under it.
Well, at least we know what you accept as a definition of “peace”, James.
The Bush(Chaney) plan is to stall and let the next pres, most likely a democrat, deal with it, so the bad things that happen can be blamed on that administration.
Cynical waste of lives from the bunker, mien Furhrer?
It’s pull out while trying to organize some form of international peace keeping force (unlikely), or institute a war tax and a draft and occupy Iraq with an iron fist, not too differently than Saddam did.
The price beyond lives (American and Iraqi) is our military. We are so down on materiel that we in no position to fight another war front without a massive retooling similar to WW II. Even without opening a third campaign in Iran, we have become so depleted that frankly we could become a second tier nation militarily. You can’t fight a war on credit forever.
Thanks neo-cons and die hard Bush(Chaney) supporters. Thanks for doing more damage than any terrorists could.
Well, its pretty obvious his speech was to maintain and bolster the coalition of 36 nations that are working together against the American Liberals who only want defeat? I guess if Liberals were better businessmen, not even Harvard Business School Graduates, that we would understand the value of “return on success.” (“ROS” (c) BushCo)
I think Nero gave nearly the same speech with the same insightfulness some years ago? Completely bonkers, or just listening to Jesus???
Bush is a traitor to the Constitution and should be impeached, hauled out of the White House in manacles, and thrown in jail for the rest of his life.
Unfortunately the Congress has neither brain nor balls. “Treason never prospers; for if it does none dare call it treason.”
You know, the Israeli government warned the US not to go into Iraq, they warned Bush that Iran is the real threat not Iraq… they warned Bush that this could happen. Not that we weren’t happy to see Sadam Husein go down – he was an arch dictator and a mass murder but at least he coud be negotiated with….. the Iranians are absolute nut cakes.
The situation in Iraq is not too good, I am very worried about the long term impact it will have on the USA and the region. I hope the US army can somehow stabilize it and get out of there.
Bush attacked the secondary target not the primary one. #6 The president of the US is surely not a traitor, you know Pres. Kenedy went to war against northern vietnam (50,000 good americans dead) – was he a traitor too? I don’t think so.
#6 – Unfortunately the Congress has neither brain nor balls.
Or the numbers… Just having a simple majority isn’t enough. We need to elect enough Democrats to override a veto… Then we can marginalize the President and take make the nation.
(yeah yeah yeah James Hill… I know… You own me… whatever…)
A war of whim.
I’ve seen this before. The last year of LBJ’s presidency. He was another stubborn Texan that listened to the wrong people. People have to understand that it may take decades to crawl out from under a mess a President can make. This crap isn’t over when he leaves. There’s no sense in running away if the enemy is just going to shot you in the back.
8–Dems have the numbers to not fund the war.
Simple.
In all these, it is forgotten that Saddam DID offer to resign and go somewhere else just before Mr Bush invaded… That offer should have been taken. Ah well…
11 – bobbo
Correct but not so simple, I think. The Bush ‘brainwashing machine’ has caused “fund the war” to now be universally translated by the great unwashed as “fund the troops”.
There is no way the Dems are going to be accused of not supporting the troops, especially just prior to an election. They simply haven’t got the guts.
The other Issue is General Patreus talking about what are the consequences to us and the middle east if we just jank all of our troops out with in 6 months. What is a mess will quickly turn into a diaster. I think the Dems are struggling with how to end the war and not be blamed for the “peace” and W is willing to let the Dems be burned for that if they try to go all out for returning the troops.
“…are honorable. And I know that America is ultimately a force for good in this world. But that doesn…”
Yeah riiiight! Like the wars agianst Mexico, Korea, Vietnam….or should I say “police actions”
#14,
I am gonna point at the Anbar province miracle to refute you. I’d say that is evidence that the scenario you describe simply won’t happen. Once you pull the US military out, the militias take out the Al’Queda elements.
Sure there will be some ethinic clensing after we leave, but its not like we are stopping it currently, with our troops in the cross fire.
From this point on the only reason for US troops to be in Iraq is to try and prop up a Federal government that will give all its oil production profits to Haliburton. If you belive that will result in peace in Iraq and the region, I have a new religion that offers eternal salvation or triple your money back. Oh wait, never mind.
#16
I disagree with your assesssment of the Anbar region because prior to us being there the tribes didn’t do that so the precense of US troops matter. The sectarian violence is a much tougher issue that also requires some troops as well much like what happened in the former Yugoslovia when Serbia got beat back down.
Your point about oil and haliburton just tells me you probably think the CIA master minded 9\11. The problem with conspiracy theories vs religon is that religon claims there is a pay off but conspiracy theories always just keep spinning off new delusions of supposed reality.
>>From this point on the only reason for US troops to be in Iraq
>>is to try and prop up a Federal government that will give all
>>its oil production profits to Haliburton.
That seems to have been the only reason pretty much from the get-go. Other than the secondary goal of Little King Georgie’s need to work through his Daddy Issues. Only an imbecile would have engaged Iraq in a war like Dumbya did. Res ipsa loquitur.
‘No meaningful AlQaeda influence’
Liberals sure know how to move the goalposts. The fact is there was a substantial relationship between Iraq and AlQaeda. OBL issued calls to support Iraq after a visit from an Iraqi delegation in the 90s.
Pull the troops out so they’re safe when we nuke the whole region into glass. 2 problems solved at once.
“The fact is there was a substantial relationship between Iraq and AlQaeda.”
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say you get your news primarily from FOX news. You are one of the 60+% of FOX viewers who thinks there was links with AlQueda when there was NOT. Sure as hell is now though, thanks to us.
>>The fact is there was a substantial relationship between
>>Iraq and AlQaeda.
Haw! Yeah, al Qaeda supplied Saddam with those weapons of mass destruction, didn’t he? And he gave tips to the Iraqis who hijacked the 9/11 planes.
You gotta cut down on the Fox “news” watching, dude. It may be hazardous to your mental health.
>>Liberals sure know how to move the goalposts.
If they do, they must be paying close attention to the chickenhawk neocons. We went from being welcomed as liberators, to Mission Accomplished, to a Long Hard Slog, to a surge that was going to be evaluated in September, to a new “decision point” next March. If Dumbya could have his wish and be King for Life, I’ll bet the Iraq war would go on until the day he died, with goalposts moving out 8-12 months forever. All to the great financial benefit of President Cheney’s stock options, of course…
Amazing how much misinformation can get posted as fact on the web by individuals pushing their own agendas. Save my Fetus, kill an Iranian today.
One way to surely stop the war would be to reinstate the draft.
How many people who are calling for this war have sent their own sons and/or daughters to fight?
Why aren’t the Bush twins serving in the military?
Why hasn’t Cheney’s daughters served?
How many Senators and Congress critters’ children have served?
I could go on, but maybe I should stop here… The point is clear.
>>Why aren’t the Bush twins serving in the military?
That’s the whole point of being a chickenhawk. You wage a war using somebody ELSE’S family and friends, not your own. The Bush girls have more important things to do than defeat terrorism and defend her country.
>>Why hasn’t Cheney’s daughter served?
No lesbos allowed. He lucked out on that one.
#17,
Um, no, Im not basing that on anything but what has already happened, no speculation is needed. First is massive numbers of no-bid contracts to Haliburton. Second is a piece of legislation that the Iraqi parlament failed to pass that was designed to turn over all the oil profits to western developers… like Haliburton.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/07/secret-report-n.html
ROFL
#26
Your analysis of what happen and the implied intent is pretty fast and loose. Did you read the article you posted? It was talking about the division in country among Iraqui’s…Delusions, suppositions, and innuendo the makings of first class conspiracy theories. You better watch out for the black helicopters coming to get you.
>>Did you read the article you posted?
I didn’t post it, but I read it. And the following quote says it all:
“But the report, obtained by the Blotter on ABCNews.com, says the issues the three sides are too far apart to agree on are the “role of foreign companies in the oil sector” and the division of the oil profits.”
If Cheney’s energy cabal doesn’t get a lion’s share of those oil profits, the war will end when they pry the gas pump out of Cheney’s cold, dead, chickenhawk claws.
Or until he’s sent scurrying on his way, tail between his legs. 2008, BRING IT ON!!!!
#15, Hey joe,
You left out a few –
The ‘ police actions ‘ that devastated the American Indians. ¿ Can you say ‘ diphtheria laden blankets ‘ ?
Each and every country in Central America
( except for Costa Rica, which is where I live (:-) ), including ‘ Operation Just Because ‘ in Panamá.
All of those in South America that the al-Usa taxpayers clandestinely funded.
Hawaii
etc., etc., etc.
Allen McDonald, El Galloviejo®
#27,
OMG you are an idiot.. Did you read the article? Notice that the sticking point is the part where they also share the profits with outside oil interests? Better yet, don’t rely on this one article. Go to news.google.com and type in “iraq oil revenue sharing”. Holy shit! Look at all those articles about just that sticking point.
Have you followed this story in enough detail to realize that this revenue sharing agreement is one of the failed benchmarks?
I will concede that I might be delusional sometimes if you concede that you have some sort of reading comprehension disability. ROFL.