A nationwide survey of the religious beliefs and practices of American physicians has found that the least religious of all medical specialties is psychiatry. Among psychiatrists who have a religion, more than twice as many are Jewish and far fewer are Protestant or Catholic, the two most common religions among physicians overall.
The study also found that religious physicians, especially Protestants, are less likely to refer patients to psychiatrists, and more likely to send them to members of the clergy or to a religious counselor.
Although Protestant physicians were only half as likely to send the patient to a psychiatrist, Jewish physicians were more likely to do so. Least likely were highly religious Protestants who attended church at least twice a month and looked to God for guidance “a great deal or quite a lot.”
A man walks into a psychiatrist’s office wrapped in clear plastic wrap. The doctor took one look at him and said, “Clearly I can see your nuts.”
#26 K&T, “The broad-minded see the truth in different religions; the narrow-minded see only the differences.”
OR, one can also say…
“The broad-minded see the fallacy of all religions; the narrow-minded see only the similarities.”
>>“The broad-minded see the fallacy of all religions; the
>>narrow-minded see only the similarities.”
Or, most accurately perhaps, one might say “the simple-minded imagine they know all and see all, not unlike Karnack The Magnificent; the more cognizant and aware, realize that there are some things that elude current understanding”.
That attitude among physicians is a little distressing but not surprising. Everybody talks about psychiatry like it is some type of vodoo, but the reality is the brain is no different than any other part of the body. Just like you catch a cold or have a back ache and have a physical illness, the brain gets sick and people can get a mental illness (depression, anxiety etc).
The fact is that in the 1950s Thorazine was used on schizophrenia, and the population of mental insitutions was drastically reduced. This is one of the great successes of modern medicine but everyoe still thinks of psychiatry as a crackpot field.
it’s not a surprise to me that pscyhiatrists are the least religious of all physicians. After having studied brain chemistry, I am fully aware of the chemical nature that patrons unknowingly seek out from church. They know that going to church makes them feel good; they just don’t know why.
The bright lights, music, and community nature of going to church increases endorphins and dopamine. Once you have said people whipped into a frenzy and high from their own hormones, you can preach to them 2 + 2 +5, and they will believe it at least for a while.
In the beginning, I nodded my head to what was preached, but soon I got accustomed to the high and began to realize more and more quickly what was being preached was bulshit. Our preacher practically came out and endorsed Bush and the Republicans, and another skewered the Da Vinci Code even though he later admitted ” I haven’t read it”, and this was an extremely liberal church.
So, yeah, maybe the idea of the ten commandments falling out of the sky is stupid but I don’t think being against killing, stealing, and envy are stupid. In this case, the substance justifies the sizzle.
#30 – MM,
That was me, and yes. What’s your point? That I’m human? Yup.
And, yes, I agree that “there are some things that elude current understanding”. However, pointing to that as any kind of argument for god taking up the slack does two things:
1) Prevents further questioning, which I doubt you advocate.
2) The god-of-the-gaps philosophy relegates god to an ever shrinking role as we continue to learn more about our bizarre universe, also something I doubt you advocate.
So, yes, an ability to recognize that humans don’t know everything is an important part of intelligence at the current time frame, and probably for the foreseeable future. However, IMNSHO, adding god to the mix just asks more questions.
1) Who created god? (clearly a god-creator)
2) Who created the god-creator? (clearly a god-creator-creator)
3) Who created the god-creator-creator? (clearly a god-creator-creator-creator)
4) Etc. ad infinitum. (It’s just turtles all the way down.)
Further, if we’re already trying to explain the existence of our incomprehensibly large universe, now we must explain the existence of a creature that can go around creating such objects at the rate of one a week. This doesn’t help me.
But, if this helps you, go for it. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t assume that others are being closed minded by not admitting the possibility of that for which there is no evidence. If you want people to open minds to such possibilities, please provide some reason for doubt.
Growing up in the 50’s and 60’s it was far, far more hostile being an atheist and subject to Christian wrath. Atheists were (and still are) considered as being the voice of the devil. You’d dare not reveal ANY thoughts contrary to Christianity. In our Catholic school, at home or anywhere in public, you could only ask such a question at a risk of being ridiculed and shunned.
So now that is is becoming less perilous (strength in numbers) for atheists to express that they think differently, theists complain that their ideas are anti-religious bigotry. Priceless! … and Tough!
#34, MM,“the simple-minded imagine they know all and see all, not unlike Karnack The Magnificent; the more cognizant and aware, realize that there are some things that elude current understanding”.
For once I agree with you Mister Mustard. Scientists “realize that there are some things that elude current understanding” and proceed to unravel the mysteries.
The simple-minded imagine they have a god that knows all and sees all, “not unlike Karnack The Magnificent”.
#39 JimR, growing up in my circle, atheism also meant that there was a high likelihood that you were a communist sympathizer. “Godlesscommunist” was a single word, and such people would be better off living out their unhappy, meaningless lives in Russia.
Atheism just ain’t what it used to be 😉
>>1) Who created god? (clearly a god-creator)
>>2) Who created the god-creator? (clearly a god-creator-creator)
>>3) Who created the god-creator-creator? (clearly a
>>god-creator-creator-creator)
Scottie, I think I’ll go with Iris Dement on this one, and “let the mystery be”.
>>Just don’t assume that others are being closed minded by
>>not admitting the possibility of that for which there is no evidence.
If they don’t admit the “possibility” of something, then they’re being closed minded by definition. Whether or not the choose to believe in that something, that’s their own business, as my choices are mine.
What I DO assume, and with very good cause, is that if somebody feels a need to berate and belittle my own chosen beliefs in some sort of grandiose fit of self-importance, proclaiming to the “high heavens” that I must be mentally retarded or evil because I believe things he does not, well, that guy’s what we used to call a “fucking asshole” when I was a kid.
When I start trying to force your kids to pray in school, or your wife to forgo an abortion under threat of jail time, or prevent (by Constitutional caveat) your brother from marrying his boyfriend, then you’ll have every right to complain. Until then, please refrain.
>>In our Catholic school, ….. you could only ask such a question
>>at a risk of being ridiculed and shunned.
Jimbo, why in the fuck would anyone go to Catholic school (or religious indoctrination of any sort) if they wanted to question the tenets of that religion??? Isn’ that kind of like joining he Marines and saying “Gosh, Sarge, I don’t really think it’s justified of you to ask me to do that”?
43. No. Many of us who went to Catholic school started at an early age, in my case 6. As we matured, we questioned what we were being taught, (at least the more rebellious amongst us).
“Among psychiatrists who have a religion, more than twice as many are Jewish and far fewer are Protestant or Catholic,”
They’re going to torch me for what I’m going to say but that explains why the quintessential cartoon for psychiatrists are usually balding, big nosed men.
#42 – MM,
Scottie, I think I’ll go with Iris Dement on this one, and “let the mystery be”.
Me too. I thought that leaving it be was just that. Adding god to the soup does “let it be”, IMHO. Not trying to convince you or berate you. I’m just expressing my opinion.
If they don’t admit the “possibility” of something, then they’re being closed minded by definition.
I can’t agree with you on this. The “show me some evidence” attitude is just that. I’m very open minded to new evidence.
if somebody feels a need to berate and belittle my own chosen beliefs in some sort of grandiose fit of self-importance, proclaiming to the “high heavens” that I must be mentally retarded or evil because I believe things he does not, well, that guy’s what we used to call a “fucking asshole” when I was a kid.
That’s still true. I hope I have not crossed that line. I also hope that nothing I’ve said could be considered complaining about your point of view on this subject.
#45 – Angel,
I’m not going to torch you for having a bigoted opinion. I will, however, point out that you are clearly into bigot territory though. Have you noticed that many Jews have small noses and are not balding? Or, do you assume that everyone you see with a small nose and full head of hair is not Jewish? Either way, you’re a bigot.
>>Many of us who went to Catholic school started at an
>>early age, in my case 6.
OK, so maybe you were subjected to child abuse. My condolences. That’s one good thing about Protestants, they have “Sunday School” for the Bible studies, and regular secular school for the three R’s.
As Pete Seeger taught us (quoting Ecclesiastes 3:1-8), “there is a time for every purpose under Heaven”. See documents turned over to NYU by the Communist Party for further information. If you want to build a rocket ship or grow better collard greens, or learn more about dinosaurs and the history of Earth, take some science classes. If you want to have a deeper spiritual understanding of things, meditate, look inward, pray to God, go to Sunday School, wear a hair shirt and celice, self-flagellate, worship Buddah, or whatever.
That’s the joy of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. You get the best of all possible worlds.
>>I hope I have not crossed that line.
No Scottie, you haven’t. You’ve been quite the gentleman in that regard. A little militant on the “I Love New York” thing, but you haven’t called me mentally retarded, anti-intellectual, evil, or a clone of Ted Haggard because my religious beliefs differ from yours. Thank you for that. I can’t say the same for all of your Atheist bretheren, but hey. We’re all God’s children, right? And we’re all different. Just as I don’t paint you with the same brush as Pol Pot or Chairman Mao, I appreciate not being categorized in the same group as Jerry Falwell or Jimmy Swaggart or Ted “meth and man ass” Haggard.
>>The “show me some evidence” attitude is just that. I’m
>>very open minded to new evidence.
Aw, come on, Scottie. How much of quantum physics or molecular biology or advances in solid-state semiconductor technology do you (or I) really UNDERSTAND at the level necessary to critically evaluate it? We just assume that the Deities of Science “know” what they’re talking about, so they must be right. Hey, if the iPhone works, they must be doing something right. Of course, maybe it’s just God guiding their way. Nobody knows.
#48 – MM,
I actually have a better layman’s understanding than you might expect. Further, on every point, if you choose to dig further, you will be given progressively more evidence to the point of your ability to understand. And, your so-called deities of science are more than willing to tell you what they don’t know, unlike most religious leaders.
Those doctors who have the MOST KNOWLEDGE about the things that immature, uninformed, malfunctioning and / or overemotional human minds come up with – are the ones who have the LEAST BELIEF in those nonexistent products of human imagination, misperception and ignorance.
Whatta shock! 🙂
#42 – If they don’t admit the “possibility” of something, then they’re being closed minded by definition.
It’s close minded to suggest it would be impossible to find a new species of mammal or fish on this planet.
It’s just reasonable to claim that mammal or fish will not be a mermaid.
It’s “possible” that there is an invisible guy in the sky who made the universe and issues me a karmic demerit anytime I jack off. But it is very, very, very unlikely, and quite reasonable to suggest the probability that there is an invisible man in the sky is so close to zero as to actually be zero.
Further, given that there has never been any credible recorded contact between humanity and and gods, and given that all known religions are man made, even if there is a supernatural entity that exists, we have no way of knowing if it is good, evil, caring, or indifferent… but most certainly it is not as current religions claim. In fact, its possible our worship offends it. We have no idea.
But we do have science. So let’s use logic and reason to work toward the solving of this mystery, and turn away from the primitive and superstitious rantings of past theologians.
I’m not close minded. I’m just rational. There is a huge difference.
Mister Mustard, you slipped up there. If you don’t want to be lumped in with the typical religious hypocrite, please explain the following hypocrisy.
#34…MM “Or, most accurately perhaps, one might say “the simple-minded imagine they know all and see all, not unlike Karnack The Magnificent; the more cognizant and aware, realize that there are some things that elude current understanding”.”
#42…MM “What I DO assume, and with very good cause, is that if somebody feels a need to berate and belittle my own chosen beliefs in some sort of grandiose fit of self-importance, proclaiming to the “high heavens” that I must be mentally retarded or evil because I believe things he does not, well, that guy’s what we used to call a “fucking asshole”
#46 MScott, I have to disagree with you regarding Angel’s comment. I don’t see the mere association of certain physical characteristics with a person’s race as being any form of bigotry. The bigotry begins when people are diminished and devalued based on those differences.
>>I actually have a better layman’s understanding than
>>you might expect.
As do I, Scottoline. You might be surprised to know what I know. Yet, as much as I could EVER know, I know that I can’t know everything.
>>And, your so-called deities of science are more than willing
>>to tell you what they don’t know, unlike most religious leaders.
Oh, my religious leaders are willing to tell me what they don’t know. Although they do so at their own peril. Just look at all the shit Mothere Teresa took even here on DU for being a doubter. And if you think the deities of science are willing to admit ignorance, you haven’t met many deities of science. I have met many, including Nobel Prize winners, and only the most highly evolved are willing to admit ignorance about anything.
>>please explain the following hypocrisy.
Sorry Jimbo, maybe I’m just dense, but I don’t see the “hypocrisy”.
#34 was just a ferinstance. I was pointing out another possiblity. We don’t want to avoid due dilligence in exploring all the options.
#42 – wtf? I was simply pointing out my opinion that people who call me an evil retard because I don’t believe what they believe are, in my opinion, fucking assholes. Is that a problem? Am I not allowed to hold my own opinions? Or must I kneel at the same altar as you?
#43 MM again, “Jimbo, why in the fuck would anyone go to Catholic school (or religious indoctrination of any sort) if they wanted to question the tenets of that religion???”
I was forced to attend church and bible classes. My parents were forced to send me or be faced with social outcast. their parents were forced to sent them and so on and so on. I had a question about the bible when I was 7, the nun became unhinged, and sent me home. I couldn’t understand what I did wrong. All I remember was the other kids looking shocked with fear at the nun.
I just wanted to stay home and play and be a kid. From what I see, it is no different today, no matter what religion you are “born” into. The brainwashing begins before you can speak, and if you step out of line you’re considered a disgrace… or maybe even dead if your are a Muslim.
>>and issues me a karmic demerit anytime I jack off.
OFTLO, you seem to have a fixation on the second son of Judah (Onan). Do you worship him?
>>Further, given that there has never been any credible
>>recorded contact between humanity and and gods
To you suppose God used Morse Code? Text messaging? Made phone calls, so the CSI guys could pull his LUDS?
Just as I don’t believe everything that’s written, I don’t dismiss out of hand everything that’s not. There’s something to be said for personal experience. And if your personal experience differs from mine, so be it. I don’t think you’re an evil retard for not experiencing the same things that I do. Please return the favor.
Now, you may return to your masturbation.
MMustard, In #34 you insinuated non-believers to be “simple-minded”. If not then who were you referring to?
Then in #42, you expressed that if someone considers you mentally retarded because of your beliefs, they are a “fucking Asshole”.
Now do you see it? I’m not complaining about you calling non-believers simple minded, but if you are going to dish it out…
Besides, religion is based on belief – a function of imagination – so if a non-religious person wonders what could possibly make someone believe in what they clearly see as pure illogical nonsense, the possibility of a mental disfunction is a valid consideration.
And I suppose the reverse is true from your vantage point. Non-believers might no have that special something in our brains that allow us to “see” a god. I’m just glad I don’t have that mental affliction. 🙂
47. “OK, so maybe you were subjected to child abuse. My condolences. That’s one good thing about Protestants, they have “Sunday School” for the Bible studies, and regular secular school for the three R’s.”
WTF. Sorry no. Dont assume everyone who went to Parochial school is the victim of child abuse. Cripes. Actually I have very good memories of Catholic School. No abuse and an excellent education. We werent even forced to take religious studies, we could opt for Sociology and Psychology instead. It was my choice not to remain in the church and was never forced otherwise. What do you think about that?
It’s turtles all the way down.
>>In #34 you insinuated non-believers to be “simple-minded”.
>>If not then who were you referring to?
Jimmy, I was just filling out the matrix.
>>you expressed that if someone considers you mentally
>>retarded because of your beliefs, they are a “fucking Asshole”.
Well, as long as they just THINK I’m mentally retarded and evil, I guess that’s they’re business. When it gets to the point of libel, slander, or trying to enforce a change in my beliefs, then I think they have crossed over the line into “fucking asshole”-dom. But hey, that’s just my opinion. Do you have a problem with me expressing my opinion?
>>Non-believers might no have that special something in our
>>brains that allow us to “see” a god.
Do you only believe in things that you can “see”? If so, you should apply for a job as a Geico caveman. As to spiritual belief, if you don’t have that “special something”, you would differ from most other homo sapiens. But hey. You guys have always been self-proclaimed naughty, dangerous, irreverent, free-thinking, iconoclastic, non-conformist members of the intelligentsia, no? Good on ya, as we say Down Under.
I just wish youse would quit busting my balls.
>>Dont assume everyone who went to Parochial school is
>>the victim of child abuse.
Get your mind out of the gutter, Maypo. I wasn’t referring to getting fucked up the ass by sexually-repressed priests (although you lucked out by the skin of your teeth on that one). I was referring to being subjected to an “educational” system that doesn’t allow questioning of the doctrine promulgated by the school.
62. “I was referring to being subjected to an “educational” system that doesn’t allow questioning of the doctrine promulgated by the school.”
Your inference was that I was subjected to child abuse. You’ve been to Catholic school lad? Sounds like you know shit about Catholic school education. Also, putting “educational” in quotes would seem to infer that it was below standard, when the school had one of the highest standards in the state. I cant argue with a moron, so I will just leave it at that.
>.You’ve been to Catholic school lad?
No, son, I was one of the lucky ones. Most of the kids I grew up with who went to Catholic school are dead or in jail.
If you got out of parochial school without being fucked up the ass by the priests, having your knuckles broken by the nuns and their metal-edged rulers, or any other of the hazards usually associated with that form of education, God bless you.
Just as I respect your right to send your kids to Catholic school, please respect mine to look down on it. I won’t try to outlaw you, I promise. Will you promise not to try to tell me whether or not my wife or gf can have an abortion, to determine the sex of my marriage partner, or infuse your private schools with my own religious beliefs?