I heard this guy on NPR at lunchtime. Interesting argument. As he put it, a mother legally can carry a handgun for protection all day long, but when she comes to campus for a night class, she can’t. After Virginia Tech, you have to wonder what would have happened there if students had been armed.
Va. Tech Killings Underscore Guns-on-Campus Campaign
Some college students are pushing for their schools to allow them to carry guns on campus.
They say they should have the right to protect themselves in the event of a shooting like the one that left 33 people dead at Virginia Tech.
Andrew Dysart, a George Mason University senior, has organized a chapter of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.
The group hopes to convince legislators to overturn a Virginia law that allows universities to prohibit students, faculty and staff members with gun permits from carrying their weapons on campus.
Dysart says that the students at Tech should have had a chance to defend themselves.
Virginia law allows schools to decide whether to allow students with concealed-weapons permits to carry their guns on campus.
One state school, Blue Ridge Community College, does allow it. Schools cannot prohibit non-students or other outsiders from carrying weapons onto campuses if they have legal permits.
212 – Thank you for your concern! I do mean that! 🙂
More than likely my Wife nor I will go…
Thanks again for your thoughts
Cheers
210—MM, if only criminals have guns==they will be easier to catch.
I’ll put your position as another reason to outlaw guns.
thanks for your input.
207–Thomas. Iraq is a country?====Good one.
>>MM, if only criminals have guns==they will be easier to catch.
Would that be before or after they kill you, Pizza Man?
And as you know, successful criminals are notoriously hard to “watch” (even with your government-sanctioned CCTV cameras in every bedroom); that’s how they got to be successful.
And although I may choose not to keep a gun in MY house at the moment, I rest easier at night knowing that the law-abiding citizens on either side of me may have them, and the criminals don’t know who’s who.
OK,
BACk to the POST…
Should Guns be allowed on campus..
NO..
Should we be allowed to carry guns..
YES..
Concealed??
NO..
MM–You want guns to be kept legal so that criminals won’t kill you, and in order for your neighbors to protect you against home burglary.
I think that position is fairly representational. Good job.
>>I think that position is fairly representational.
“representational”? Have you gotten an early start on the beer?
And since we’re baring our souls here, what is your justification for wishing that law-abiding citizens’ ownership of guns be criminalized, while armed robbers and murderers will still have access? Hmmm, Plato?
220–that would be to slide in at the bottom left hand quartile of the positive correlation–you know–to reduce the number of murders in GOUSA. Silly you can’t keep the subject/theme of a discussion in mind for more than 1.5 entries?
>>bottom left hand quartile of the positive correlation
bobbo, wait until you’ve successfully completed the junior high statistics class before you start gibbering like a chimp.
If you had any idea what the fuck you were talking about, I might consider prolonging this agony in spite of your tiresome nature.
But you don’t.
Over and out. You win every time, don’t you?
That was garbled. Bottom Left Hand side of the “Z” curve showing fewer guns equals fewer deaths and the bottom 25th quartile of the statistics for fewer deaths. It could be made sense of.
So how do you reconcile your libertarian position on gun control, with your statist position on healthcare, Mister Mustard?
>>Bottom Left Hand side of the “Z” curve showing fewer
>>guns equals fewer deaths
Would you like to present that “Z” curve, bobbi, or should we just take your word for it? And don’t forget to break out the deaths by “innocent, law-abiding citizen” vs. “gun-toting criminal”, OK.
And why, oh why, do you keep refuting the cardinal rule of regression analysis, that “correlation does not equal causation”? We’ve already established that if there were no guns anywhere on earth there would be no gun deaths.
It’s who’s doing the killing and who’s doing the dying that is at issue here, and how that might be influenced by taking guns AWAY from everyone who is not going to commit a crime with them.
And that, you don’t even have to have a secret decoder ring to make sense of.
To Hell with guns, I want my own missiles, like Michael Vick has.
Damn, it took me 45 minutes to scroll down here!
#224 – He doesn’t need to reconcile it. He has a position on two issues and those issues are different. I’m a liberal. Does that mean I can’t take a position on a particular topic if that position is conservative?
>>So how do you reconcile your libertarian position on gun
>>control, with your statist position on healthcare, Mister Mustard?
As OFTLO pointed out, Mr IBC, I don’t NEED to reconcile it. I’m not the Pope of the libertarian or “statist” church. I evaluate things that come into my sphere of observation, and decide what I think, no matter what the party elders may wish.
I am all for personal freedom (and the Constitutionally guaranteed “right to life…”; hence my position on “gun control”.
I am in favor of our tax dollars going to pay for beneficial things that the citizens paying the taxes cannot reasonably be expected to do for themselves (e.g., national defense, highways, disaster relief, schooling), hence my position on on health care.
You might be surprised at how many opinions I hold that are contrary to the Party Line of the party for other positions I hold.
Any further reconciliation necessary, or was that enough?
No further reconciliation necessary, Mr. M.
I’m actually pro-gun yet sympathetic to single-payer heathcare too, I was just baiting you. 🙂
Oh boy. You’re society is finished…..gone……assimilated……
I find that comforting as the US is a huge monetery 3rd World country. Get used to it, you are toast.
I have to say that the American people themselves are fantastic, but their administration is run by some very crazy people. CRAZY!
All you anti gun people, well you’re all Fudged, – i.e. F%#@&D.
>189: You miss the point. The world was a different place +200 years
>ago. To claim that we all should be armed in case of an enemy does
> manage to get through the US Armed forces to American soil the
>home guard will take care of them? Shoot everyone who looks like a
> terrorist? Really??
You’re right. It is a different world. However, the basic tenets still apply. To maintain a free society, the people must be willing defend it. At all costs. I did my time in the military. I dug up dead Marines in Beriut in ’83. All volunteers, I might add.
To tell them they could not carry pistols at home when they put their lives on the line every single day . . . what would they be defending? Certainly not their lives, wives, children, property and certainly not their way of life.
Breshnev (sp) once said when he visited NY, and saw all the secret service people around him, stated (mock Russion accent), “This is big difference between countries. In Soviet Union, the leaders sometimes find it necessary to shoot their people. In America, the people sometimes find it necessary to shoot their leaders.”
If the leader of a Super Power can understand it, why can’t you?
#206, Thomas,
Regarding Hitler, one of the first things Hitler did was to disarm the populace…. Had the populace still be armed, it is still possible that Germany would have conquered quite a bit of Europe but it is equally possible that people would have resisted and that resistance would have been substantially more costly to the German Army.
Thomas, you really have no idea what the eff you are blabbering about.
The German people liked Hitler. If some pollster took a poll, he would have had approval ratings above 70% through the ’30s and then even higher until the debacle at Stalingrad. In the beginning, the war had near universal support in Germany.
Hitler gave the German people something to be proud of. He put them back to work, often building a war machine, but also infrastructure such as the Autobahns, automobiles, and electrification. Better than Mussolini, he not only made the trains run on time, he made the trains run. If Hitler’s obsession with conquering the world hadn’t been there, he would have gone down as a much heralded figure in Germany’s history.
#234
You actually are proving my point. It is true that Hitler was beloved by the people…at first. But once Hitler began stripping the populace of their rights and embroiled them in a two front war, opinion changed. Unfortunately for the German people, at that point, it was too late to do anything to stop him. It is naive to think that once the German people realized that Hitler had to go and had they still been armed, that circumstances would not have been different. Hitler’s generals thought him to be a fool. It wasn’t until he was given Czechoslovakia and then took Poland in a month that they second guessed themselves. By 1941, the German people were loyal through fear and completely impotent to change anything and yet even still they attempted to kill him late in the war.
> If Hitler’s obsession with conquering the world
> hadn’t been there, he would have gone down as a
> much heralded figure in Germany’s history.
What a nonsensical statement. It was specifically because of that obsession that he built the autobahn and encouraged improved automobile efficiency and production. It was because of that obsession that he poured huge percentages of the Germany GDP into the military complex which helped fuel many of those innovations. You cannot talk about one without the other.
#227hhopper, “Damn, it took me 45 minutes to scroll down here!”
Is this a record of sorts? 234 posts and counting?
#231 “Oh boy. You’re society is finished…..gone……assimilated……
I find that comforting as the US is a huge monetary 3rd World country. Get used to it, you are toast.”
I see how you come to that conclusion but ‘monetary 3rd world’ is a little extreme.
At the moment America is still the premier world economy and should still be able to hold that crown for at least the next five years – after that it’s anyone’s guess how long before China takes the lead with India and Indonesia coming up from behind.
Then it becomes toast…
Cheers
Ahem—-does a free society have a government that publishes a document on how to remove peaceful protesters from any meeting between its president and its citizens?
When China does it, its called repression and lack of freedom worthy of civil revolt. When Bushco does it——hardly a word is spoken.
238—continuum===
and how does an armed citizenry stop or inhibit this flagrant violation of first amendment rights?
Thats right, it doesn’t.
>237 Define “free society” on how it differs from other free societies.
> This is were the problem is I believe – ‘Free Society’ used to mean
> more than the catch all phrase it is now.
> Even China can be called a ‘free society’ now.
I define it as one where protests for democratic reform are shut down with tanks and armed soldiers and 10,000+ college students mysteriously disappear after it happens and the government actively suppresses that information in the press and tries the control the web to the point the populace never knows it happened.
Oh, wait. That’s China.
China’s about as free as a turd in a toilet bowl. They can run around all they want as long as it’s in the bowl.
240–Good one.
So, there is no “absolutely” free society and what we actually do by a vague and complicated system is variously choose what freedoms are given up for what privileges.
Pure guess here—chinese would rather have rice in their bowls than freedom to mass protest their government?
Likewise, many would rather have their guns and stay behind their gated walls than live in a society without guns where you could walk down the cities streets at night without one.
Circumstances and choices.
So, to sum up, I think we’ve learned from this long thread the problem isn’t guns and the problem isn’t Americans with guns. The problem is Americans.
Please don’t go crazy! I’m joking!
So bobbo, I’m looking through your posts, and still no response to whether you could back up your statement that the assault weapons ban expired a few months ago.
#240 “I define it as one where protests for democratic reform are shut down with tanks and armed soldiers and 10,000+ college students mysteriously disappear after it happens and the government actively suppresses that information in the press and tries the control the web to the point the populace never knows it happened.”
What I wrote:
“Even China can be called a ‘free society’ now”
The operative word in that sentence is now. What you are referring to happened about 20 years ago and that China does not exist any more than the Whites Only areas exists in American – the “Free Society”.
China’s development and progress has been nothing short of astounding when you compare what it was like 20 years ago and now…there is that word again now. It took America how many years to come to terms with American ex-slaves? 100 years you say? How in the hell could that take so long in a ‘Trust in God Free Society”?
See my point?
No, mwinsown, maybe not from your comment: “China’s about as free as a turd in a toilet bowl. They can run around all they want as long as it’s in the bowl.” I am guessing you have never been to China, haven’t you?
Maybe all you know is from what you have seen on TV (long ago) and from you heard from people who have the same views as yours. Anything else does not get processed so the current facts won’t get in the way of a good story. So who is the ‘turd’ as you put it spinning around the bowl? That shit stinks when it applies to you doesn’t it? I also guess if we were in a bar you would be in my face all ‘Tony Soprano” like with the breathing…
Me? I do know what it is like in China, I live here and for a long time.
I am not defending China there is still a lot of shit that needs doing but damn, its not like they arent working on it as they are and have progressed so far it makes your head spin. How else can everything you buy at Wall Mart is made in China?
The point I am making is don’t shoot off your mouth before you have the facts which are current today. Again, Think – Whites Only (Which I can recall from my childhood…)
mwinsown, I pointed out before that I can’t count how many Chinese have asked me if it is safe to travel in America as they were genuinely scared of getting shot from all the news they see on CNN. On person asked a Black man what it was like to be an ex-slave – swear to God that’s true. So they are wrong for thinking that way about America right? Of course they are! 😉
Cheers