William Lobdell
WHEN Times editors assigned me to the religion beat, I believed God had answered my prayers.
I wanted to report objectively and respectfully about how belief shapes people’s lives. Along the way, I believed, my own faith would grow deeper and sturdier.
But during the eight years I covered religion, something very different happened.
My soul, for lack of a better term, had lost faith long ago — probably around the time I stopped going to church. My brain, which had been in denial, had finally caught up.
Clearly, I saw now that belief in God, no matter how grounded, requires at some point a leap of faith. Either you have the gift of faith or you don’t. It’s not a choice. It can’t be willed into existence. And there’s no faking it if you’re honest about the state of your soul.
Is there any soul left in LA?
#24, Higghawker,
You mean Jesus would have pulled out his trusty little bible (KJV) and start to read a letter that hadn’t been written yet?
WOW.
*
Now I ask, why does my niece have spina bifida? Why would an almighty, loving god punish an innocent child, who had yet to take a breath of worldly air with such a devastating disease? There are so many bad people out there. If I gotta go because I’m bad, so be it, but why her?
Of course, science now knows that spina bifida is caused by a lack of folic acid in the mother’s diet during fetal development. I also know that the mother was also was aware of this fact. BUT, the family still pray to their god to “fix” the child before they have a surgeon correct something else.
Mr. Fusion,
Bad things happen to good people everyday. I am very sorry for your niece, but God is not to blame.
It is everyones calling to repent of their sins and obey the Gospel. That was Jesus response to the people who thought the Tower had fallen on sinners.
No matter who you are, if one doesn’t obey God’s Word, by hearing the word (Rom 10:17), Believing (Mark 16:15-16), Repenting of your sins (Luke 13:2-5) Confessing Jesus as the son of God (Matt. 10:32), and being baptized for the remission of their sins, (Acts 2:38), you cannot become a Christian.
God’s will for everyone is that they come to repentance, and obey the Gospel.
#31 Angel asks, “Is there any soul left in LA?”
Good news, Angel. There will definitely be soul on Sept 7 when The Spinners play the Hollywood Bowl 😉
So, Higghawker, God’s not responsible? He knew something terrible was going to happen to an innocent person, a baby. He could have stopped it. He didn’t.
Or look at it more broadly. He made the universe, and knew how things would turn out, and that in particular it would turn out that “bad things happen to good people everyday”.
But he’s not to blame? It’s not his fault? Whose fault is it, then?
>>But he’s not to blame? It’s not his fault? Whose fault is it, then?
Looking at it more broadly, why, it’s your fault of course, Mr. Ecks. God gave you free will, and look how you’ve fucked things up!
#16
Sophistry at its finest. If both believing in something and *not* believing in something require a leap of faith, then by definition *everything* requires a leap of faith. Breathing requires a leap of faith. Not breathing requires a leap of faith. Believing in purple leprechauns requires a leap of faith. Not believing in purple leprechauns requires a leap of faith. Believing in leaps of faith requires a leap of faith. Not believing in leaps of faith requires a leap of faith. Believing you have a clue requires a leap of faith. Not believing you have a clue means you are sane.
>>#38 blah blah blah blah blah
Thomas, if you, like bobbo, can’t distinguish between “not having a belief in god” and “devoutly BELIEVING, with all your heart and soul, that god does not exist”, I suggest you partner up with bobbo studying for the GED.
As for your allegation of sophistry: Pot, meet Kettle.
#33, Higghawker,
Bad things happen to good people everyday. I am very sorry for your niece, but God is not to blame.
If he is not to blame then that demonstrates that he didn’t create her. Therefore something else must have created her. How about she was created the way biologists say she was and her illness is because of folic acid deficiency during fetal development.
#37, MM,
If I screw up I will take the responsibility for it. Xstrians, however, tell us how god creates everything but is not now to blame for anything screwed up coming out of his plan.
lol #38 Thomas – very nice, though highly flawed, since your tool is logic, irrelevant within the domain of the voluntary insanity we call “religion.”
#39, if your god made you in his image, I can only conclude that he’s an annoying child. Come to think of it, there’s much in the Bible to support that view. Oh sure, God is loving and kind when he’s had his nap, but you don’t want to go near him if he’s been staying up late and eating sugary snacks. He could easily kill your first-born child.
Debate it all you want, the phrase “leap of faith” is nothing more than a chickenshit euphemism for “willful denial and avoidance of unpleasant truth in favor of emotionally comforting falsehoods.”
>>however, tell us how god creates everything but is not now to
>>blame for anything screwed up coming out of his plan.
Well, I guess he’s a prick, he doesn’t really exist, or there are things at work here that neither you nor I understand.
The main difference between you and me is that I admit I don’t understand everything. Of course, I haven’t been baptized in the Church of Atheism. That sort of complete confidence and unfettered belief must be very comforting. An “opiate of the minority”, if you will.
>>if your god made you in his image, I can only conclude that
>>he’s an annoying child.
Come on, Mr. Marks. Is “nah-nee nah-nee boo boo” the best you can come up with?
#44:
Are you implying any of the useless drivel that spews from your orifices is any more sophisticated?
42. One thing the bible does well is give us the perfect definition of faith. Faith is evidence for things unseen. Or, as I interpret it, faith is a belief even though you have no evidence. Like I said, perfect.
Its not religion thats the problem. Its the followers:)
#39
> belief in god” and “devoutly BELIEVING, with
> all your heart and soul, that god does not exist”
What you clearly still do not understand is that atheists *****are not making that statement*****. You are using a strawman argument that only holds weight in your little world. You cannot differentiate between their vernacular phrasing “I do not believe…” and formal version of what they are actually stating: “There is not enough evidence to believe…(just as there is not enough evidence to believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster)” You keep using the same feeble, inaccurate, misplaced argument and everyone keeps telling you that you are wrong. Your argument is the equivalent of claiming the Earth to be flat.
#41
Did you intend to make some sort of point or are you just doing a drive by troll impression?
#43
> The main difference between you and me
> is that I admit I don’t understand everything.
This is another strawman argument. No atheist EVER said they know everything. In fact, universally they state quite the opposite whereas theists will state that while *they* might not know everything, their god-thing does.
#48 says “Did you intend to make some sort of point or are you just doing a drive by troll impression?”
Seriously, Thomas, how can you possibly miss my satiric tone when I pointed out that your logic is irrelevant within the domain of the voluntary insanity we call “religion.” Did that really sound like I was truly being critical of your post? Think, man, think! But to answer your question directly, yes, I was making a point — that I agree with you and got a kick out of your comment.
#26 – Mustard Gas,
I guess we didn’t plant any new mustard seeds in the place where we performed that memectomy previously. I was going to let your posts about atheism and faith slide as a point on which we could simply agree to disagree. However, in this one, you mention the church of atheism. So, as promised, here is a link to the thread on which I used your own definitions of atheism and religion to show you why atheism is NOT a religion. Please, once again, I continue to ask you not to propagate this false and offensive meme.
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=13173
#27,
I do not believe in anything that blindly. I simply give no credence to anything for which there is no shred of evidence. As I believe there is no Great Pumpkin flying over the pumpkin patch on Halloween, I believe there is no god. This is not blind faith. A simple shred of evidence would make me change my mind to at least doubt. Thus far, I have no reason for doubt.
#43 – Colonel Mustard,
Actually, by definition, since science does not profess to have all of the answers, hence the continued search for GUTs and TOEs, atheists too are willing to say “I don’t know.”
Even worse – belief that flies in the face of the evidence.
• • • • • •
#43 – MM
“The main difference between you and me is that I admit I don’t understand everything.”
Excuse me if my lack of ignorance is an embarassment to you, but projecting your personal inability to figure things out onto others is genuine big-time egotism. You’re saying, “I don’t have the answers – and you don’t either, since it’s impossible for anyone to understand something I don’t.” BIG ego trip.
Bad news, mon ami.
You know what correlation is? Sure you do. Do you understand that religiosity – on a scale ranging starting at literalist Biblical-inerrancy fundamentalism, running through more moderate and symbolic traditional organized faiths, then through abstract, individually-arrived-at ‘spiritualism,’ and finally to complete rejection of any ‘supernatural’ phenomenon – is highly and consistently correlated with intelligence and education? That a slightly weaker, but still unmistakeable correlation with income and socioeconomic class – in developed contemporary societies – also exists?
Since I enjoy watching you tappety-tap and tippytoe around issues you have no smug, snappy answers for, I’ll ask:
Look in the audience at a faith-healing revival. See any geniuses? Or even people of AVERAGE intelligence?
Ever look at Biblical literalists? Ever seen one with a 3-digit IQ?
Of course not. I bet you’re gonna try to tell us that’s only a coïncidence.
Except you won’t. You’ll twist yourself into a verbal pretzel to squirm out of admitting what you already know is true. The smarter you are – the more knowledge you possess, the more accurate and the deeper your reasoning powers – the less likely it is that you’ll believe in something for which no evidence exists or ever existed – because it flies in the face of all we know and it doesn’t stand up to logical analysis. And you can repeat it ’til the cows come home, but the occasional odd successful and respected scientist who actually professes belief in the Abrahamic God is an extremely rare anomaly. The smarter you are the more likely you are an atheist, whether soft or hard, or an agnostic.
Nonbelieving geniuses ARE accurately represented by Bertrand Russell; firmly-believing idiots ARE accurately represented by Ernest Angley. And that ain’t no coïncidence.
Please, PLEASE give us one of your vain attempts to refute ANY of that, without evasions, without straw men or name-calling.
You can’t do it.
Even having an IQ slightly above room temperature doesn’t prevent one from forgetting a goddam closing tag… pffft.
You all should read the Top Ten Signs You’re a Fundamentalist Christian.
Oh, that reminds me – need some comic relief? Want to look at Xianity in a new way?
Come one, come all! Believers and unbelievers welcome! Mirth and merriment await you as you learn about the Good Book at the Brick Testament!
Jesus, ghosh-man. You really have your panties in a twist over this, don’t you? Who knew that your religious beliefs ran so deep?
Your intolerance tells me everything I need ot know about your religion. If you weren’t an Atheist, you’d be stoning infidels, or burning witches. Or selling spring water with vanilla extract in it to the True Believers.
Scary.
>>You all should read the Top Ten Signs You’re a
>>Fundamentalist Christian.
Golly. I failed that test with flying colors. Does that mean I’m the spawn of satan?
#33. If there was an omniscient, omnipotent god, yes it would be to blame. Christianity presumes a deity that is both:
“Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.”
Matthew 10:29
Various brands of Christianity try to explain how a omnipotent, omniscient god could allow suffering and still be considered benign. None have convinced me.
>>None have convinced me.
Great. So worship in the Atheist Church, and leave us predators alone. Until the next Mao or Pol Pot or Stalin comes along and enforces religious beliefs with the firing squad, it’s still a free country.
#54 Lauren, the Brick Testament comes a little too close to my lifetime dream of bringing the Bible to life in claymation theater, starring the characters Mr. Bill, Spot, Sluggo, and Mr. Hand, of vintage Saturday Night Live fame.
So far, my biggest problem is that the audience always seems to root for Sluggo (Satan), which seems to distort the whole message of the Bible 😉
#55 – MM
“Jesus, ghosh-man. You really have your panties in a twist over this, don’t you? Who knew that your religious beliefs ran so deep?
Your intolerance tells me everything I need ot know about your religion. If you weren’t an Atheist, you’d be stoning infidels, or burning witches. Or selling spring water with vanilla extract in it to the True Believers.
Scary.”
Wow, MM. Very subtle. I’ll bet not one reader noticed the clever way you completely sidestepped every single point I made, or even how totally you blinded them by squirting your patented 100% content-free ad hominem ink cloud to cover your indefensible so-called “arguments.”