The British army’s 38-year military campaign in Northern Ireland ended at midnight.
Operation Banner – the army`s support role for the police – was the longest in British military history and involved some 300,000 military personnel. When the first troops arrived it was believed they would be gone in weeks – nearly four decades later their job is finally done.
Gerry Kelly, Sinn Fein junior minister at Stormont, said: “The British military was part of the security response to a situation that was political. It was a response that included torture, shoot-to-kill and collusion with loyalist death squads. The security response failed.
“The tactics used by the British Army here are the same as the ones being deployed in Iraq today and the consequences can be seen by everyone.”
Seen, of course, by everyone but Blair and Bush.
Lie to the electorate, rely on lapdog journalists and we can look forward to 4 decades in Iraq, as well.
Men who prefer the use of force to the exclusion of reason will always be deluded into believing that those on the receiving end of such force will peaceably submit.
All you need to do to become a brutal oppressor is to believe that those you wish to subjugate deserve the brutality you dole out.
We’ve already go them beat, we’ve been “containing” those North Korean Communists for the past 50 years.
[Duplicate post. – ed.]
Yeah you’re right… the Brit’s invaded Ireland to liberate the Irish from their potatoes. You’re really ignorant on this one John. There is no comparison.
First of all, John’s not the editor on this one. Second, the simile is completely appropriate.
“Lie to the electorate, rely on lapdog journalists and we can look forward to 4 decades in Iraq, as well.”
Blah blah blah…same old boooooring leftist bullsh*t…so full of crap that you can’t see straight…or, anything.
“The sky is blue.”
“NO IT ISN’T! ITS A BUSH CONSPIRACY TO MAKE US ALL THINK THAT ITS BLUE, ONLY ITS BLACK…THANKS TO GLOBAL WARMING AND THOSE D*MNED IRELAND INVADING BRITISH OCCUPIERS AND THE BUSH CONTROLLED TRILATERAL COMMISSION!!!”
Must hand it to all of you “Shining Path” butt monkeys, you are consistent. in your grand delusions.
Hey all you right wingers – – – is there really no lesson here at all?
My knowledge of the English Occupation is hazy and spotty, and I don’t want to look it up ((any good references starting with the Post Office Rebellion?)) —but— surely this is a model of what happens when a military force is used to support one side against another in what is bascially a politcal/religious dispute?—ie—it won’t work unless you are willing to kill everyone on the opposite side?
What make Iraq different? I’d seriously like to know.
That’s a bit shallow for this site. If the troops had gone earlier there would have been slaughter.
And you can’t really compare the approach to the USs “boot the door down” attitude in the middle east. It’s preciseley that & not using a softer approach that stirs up so much trouble there.
#1
You forgot to add to the last paragraph “It also applies to people with skin darker than yours.”
#8
And the Irish catholics killed by the brittish army were because they deserved it?
#6, I may or may not agree with you, but I sure as hell ain’t going to waste any time reading a garbage comment like that.
#8, Brian,
And you can’t really compare the approach to the USs “boot the door down” attitude in the middle east. It’s preciseley that & not using a softer approach that stirs up so much trouble there.
It is precisely this kind of thinking that got a lot of people in Northern Ireland and England killed.
A very quick history lesson.
Ireland gains independence from Britain after a struggle in 1922. With the exception of four counties in the north east. These counties have a Protestant majority with a very sizable Catholic minority.
The Protestant majority abuses their authority. They prohibit Catholics from most civil service positions and civil benefits through overt and systemic practices, very similar to America’s Jim Crow laws. Also similar to what the Republic of Ireland endured before their own independence.
Finally the Catholics say enough is enough and strike. The Northern Ireland Government clamps down further on Catholics. Besides the police, there are the “Special Bs”, a militia type of auxiliary police entirely made up of Protestants. Catholics were now discriminated against and physically abused.
The Catholics revert to violence against the violent Protestants. The difference? The Protestant violence against Catholics have the force of police and law behind them. The Catholics have years of second class citizenship. Power against human dignity.
The British Parliament recognizes the Protestant official abuses and dissolves the Northern Ireland Parliament. They send in the British Army to stop the violence. Only they end up siding with the Protestants instead of being neutral. The violence continues but with the British Army increasingly as the target. The British Army was quite often very ruthless against perceived threats and many innocents people were killed, Others were luckier and just jailed on trumped up charges. Catholic youth were quite often arrested, beaten, and released. If they weren’t Irish Republican Army before, they learned to hate the British enough to join.
The violence crossed the Irish Sea into England. A wave of violence including many bombs in pubs and public places ensues.
Finally the Republic of Ireland, American politicians, and cooler British heads step in and help stop the violence. Parliament is reopened with a coalition government of Catholics and Protestants. Old wounds start to heal. The Republic of Ireland is experiencing a serious economic boom and some crosses the border to enrich Northern Ireland.
Now the British Army is standing down.
11—Fair review from what I remember, but I it seems to support rather than disagree with what #8 posted?–ie, when a military unit takes sides in a civil war, they will eventually be seen as the target?
What am I missing?
#11…pretty good outline of what happened. But we should mention that the Catholics in NI weren’t treated any worse then Catholics in Scotland, Wales and England for a couple hundred years.
Thanks to the Glorious Revolution of 1688. Catholics were barred from most offical jobs and positions. Even prominient Catholic aristocratic families were persecuted and abused. The big difference is that eventually most of those laws were modified and by WWII things had changed…..just not in NI. Still today, members of the Royal family cannot marry Catholics or convert without losing their spot in the succession. And the monarch cannot be a Catholic or be married to one.
One other issue. The Republic of Ireland was officially a Catholic state and made most of their laws conform to what the Pope dictated. So no birth control, no abortion, no divorce, no separation of church and state, etc. The idea of a united Ireland under these rules terrified the minority Protestants. They wanted to retain their freedoms enjoyed under British rule.
Today the Republic is moving toward a more secular state and that can only mean good things for all the people of the island.
#12, It was a political problem requiring a political solution. As soon as the politicians in charge (the British Government) tried to implement a political solution, peace was achieved.
#8 suggests the British troops in Northern Ireland didn’t kick doors down. They did. They treated the Catholics like second class people in the land they had lived in for thousands of years. In turn the IRA created terrorist acts both in Northern Ireland against British Troops and in England against soft targets.
The problem is when peacemakers end up being occupiers. Peacemakers don’t kick down doors and then kick the inhabitants. That happens constantly in Iraq as Brian suggests.
So the real question is:
Orange or Green?
I’m going with green, those limeys can go suck a fatty
15–Oh, ok. I took #8 as saying when the troops where kicking down doors like we are in Iraq, there were troubles. When they stopped kicking down the doors and started a political peace, then a solution was found–like we have not done in Iraq.
Guess it depends on how you read it?
Sad, how many Americans only examine the history of colonialism in hindsight and from afar. Perhaps, Iraq will bring more lessons home – though VietNam certainly didn’t stick in the consciousness of Imperial Amerika.
I was in the UK and Eire in the early 70’s supporting the Irish civilians, catholic and protestant alike who tried for a peaceful, non-violent solution to the Troubles. Amerikans don’t even remember international prizes awarded to the civilians who led that movement.
But, it all ended on Bloody Sunday when the Brits shot down dozens of peaceful demonstrators – killing 13 on the spot. And that was the real end of the non-violent movement for peace in northern Ireland.