Looks like clinical trials have already started
Experiments using pigs genetically engineered for compatibility with the human immune system have raised hopes that cross-species transplantation could soon become an option for patients with diabetes and other currently incurable diseases. However, many scientific hurdles remain before the ultimate goal of inducing long-term tolerance of animal tissues and organs in human recipients…
“The potential benefits of successful xenotransplantation to large numbers of patients with very differing clinical conditions remain immense, fully warranting the current efforts being made to work towards its clinical introduction.”
“Advances…might allow the initiation of clinical trials of xenotransplantation, at least for cell or islet transplantation or for the use of a pig organ to ‘bridge’ a patient until a human organ is obtained,” Dr. Cooper and coauthors write.
Of course, once you surpass the scientific hurdles there are the political, ignorant and reactionary hurdles. All part of the All-American Olympics.
25—I don’t think social resources should be expended on ME, ME, ME–but rather what is beneficial for society. When my time comes, I will rejoice in memory of the good times I have had. Death with dignity and of one’s chosing. Dr Kevorkian?–ahead of his time, but still quite correct.
26—Nothing is wrong with an amazing lack of understanding?
I disagree.
Glad you are busy. Try to post again when you have time to post. You have been a bit conclusionary of late.
“Old fat white industrialists are getting extreme life prolonging procedures” What procedures are you talking about?
“while the little kiddies in slums are denied common vacinations”
Last I checked, public health clinics were giving out vaccinations for free.
Why am I not surprised by more of this liberal nonsense? The poorest Americans are insured through Medicaid, and it is profitable for health care entities to treat them.
As far as the issue raised by the article, the #1 cause of death in the U.S. is heart disease. Most bypass surgeries improve the quality but not quantitiy of life. Angioplasty only prolongs life in the settng of an acute heart attack otherwise most of the time it too is just a big aspirin.
Both of these approaches are like band-aids. The entire heart is filled with calcified plaques that have the potential to be lethal. The key to solving heart disease to me is not to fix the pump/heart but to put in an entirely new heart/pump. If it is a pig heart, that is okay for now, but we are not going to solve heart disease until we can clone our own hearts and slap in a replacement.
That is the key to solving heart disease and while the concept of cloning freaks people out, we have to get over it if we are going to solve this nation’s #1 killer. How we treat heart disease now is incredibly inexpensive given how lame the end points truly are.
32–jz==thanks for going to the basis of my argument, and blowing me away “factually.” But philosophically, substitute any “general want” of the masses, lets say “dental care” with any experimental life extending procedure you wish. If not the xenotransplantation of genetically altered pig hearts ((does sound expensive to me?)) then substitute what works.
Point is, GOUSA spends money developing relatively rarely used procedures only the rich have access to, while the more general needs of the population go wanting leaving 40-70 Million people without adequate family heatlh care.
Fill in the blanks as necessary to make the formula work and the issue remains before us.
>>Point is, GOUSA spends money developing relatively rarely
>>used procedures
Do you suppose diabetes and heart disease are “relatively rare” conditions, Bobbo?
Not only do you not have any kids, you are CLEARLY not a doctor. The profile sharpens and becomes clearer….
#32, jz,
That was an extremely well written comment. So much in fact it has moved me to apologize for some of those nasty things I’ve said in the past. About you. Even if we usually agreed I would say well done.
Nothing like a good disagreement to sharpen both sides.
Uh, huh!
Methinks these pig xenotransplants are antisemitic 😉
Fusion, I apologize for the name calling. One of the things that has bugged me so much is the name calling that has gone on not just here but in politics and society. I am going to do my best to refrain from it in the future on this forum.
Bobbo, you seemed determined to believe that the rich have better access to health care than the poor. With the possible exception of organ transplants, it is just not true.
A poor person can sue as easily as a rich one can, and when you start talking about procedures, it is the quality of insurance more than one’s wealth that determines what procedures are going to get done. In that sense, GM workers have better access to health care than anyone. Rich people don’t pay cash for medical care; they have health insurance just like everyone else.
As far as 50 million going uninsured, I am sorry, but the middle class has itself to blame for that. It has totally bought into insurance company claim that “big government” is going to destroy health care with “socialized medicine”. If you are against socialized medicine, then you are by defintion against Medicare, Medicaid, the FDA, and private insurers being able to deny claims on the basis of medical necessity.
I just read a poll that shows more Americans are concerned with Iraq and immigration than health insurance. People are more worried about Mexicans coming across our borders than their own friggin health. Yeesh.
If the American people insisted on national health insurance, like Medicare being extended to everyone, with the threat of the politicians being tossed from office, it would be passed tommorrow. Everybody is going to get sick in their lifetimes whereas Iraq and immigration hardly affect everyone.
The rest of the civilized world has national health insurance, and the fact that we, the richest country on the planet, does not is a disgrace and an embarassment.
The French are #1 in providing care. The fucking french with their 35 hour work week are kicking our ass. I am so sick of the fear mongering and excuses for the pathetic and ineffecient way our health care system is managed. The unemployed have insurance while those working for minimum wage do not. Prisoners have health coverage, while the working poor do not. 100 year olds with dementia have coverage while children do not.
The government has not made any meaningful changes in the way medical care has been delivered in twenty years. You couldn’t build a more insane delivery system than the one we have today.
Well, my 43 year old teacher’s assistant wife had a pig’s heart valve installed a couple of months back. This will allow her to lead a normal life instead of having to take blood thinners for the rest of her life if she had elected to go with a mechanical valve.
Continue the research and tackle the other questions once the options are available.
As far as the questions about universal coverage, no thanks. I spent 6 years working in a large public hospital in Chicago, and the poor have access to good medical care. I know, I saw it in action. My wife would have gotten the same care, although it may not have been in as nice a setting, or been scheduled to our wishes. Of course I also saw alot of corruption that I could not do anything about because the people I would have had to report it to were in on the corruption.
Besides, I like the fact that while the poor have access to good care, I can still elect to get better care by being employed and paying for the health coverage provided by my employer. My wife’s care for the last 6 months will cost us about 2000 out of pocket, with another 200,000 picked up by my insurance.
Don
>>Besides, I like the fact that while the poor have access
>>to good care
Not to put too fine a point on it, Don, but are you on crack?
#38, jz,
Another well written comment. Every time I thought I was about to disagree with you, you would plop it right in my lap. Great writing !!!
The one thought I would comment on is the name calling. Sometimes it is just fun. When someone defends the indefensible or makes a boneheaded comment that is totally over the top they deserve a little humility.
Most know how I have received enough slings and arrows for some of my comments. I don’t begrudge any of my opponents for that. As wrong as they were, I forgive them and accept it for what it all is, just verbosity.
#39, Don,
As far as the questions about universal coverage, no thanks. I spent 6 years working in a large public hospital in Chicago, and the poor have access to good medical care. I know, I saw it in action.
No. You saw those who were admitted to the hospital. You didn’t see the people that were under insured and couldn’t afford to even contemplate a pig valve. You don’t see the bankruptcies later after the doctors and the hospital all scream for their money. The trouble with anecdotal experience is it is too myopic, you can’t see the before or after only what is in front of your face.
$200,000 for a heart operation? What insurance company authorized that? $2,000 for your copay? Ya right. Those numbers are unbelievable.
My wife is a nursing supervisor in a hospital. She too sees those that couldn’t afford a trip to the doctor for a minor ailment that has now festered into something major and will end up putting them into bankruptcy. She too sees those patients without insurance discharged early because the hospital won’t recover the money. She knows they will be told to see their family doctor for follow-up knowing full well there is no family doctor and there will be no follow-up.
My wife knows the disparities that exists between those with adequate insurance and those who are poorly insured. What you don’t comment on, though you are dismissive, are the aims of universal health care.
1)to open the doors to everyone equally. So everyone is qualified for a pig valve, not just the wealthy.
2)to reduce the overhead costs associated with the bureaucratic entanglement of private insurance.
3)to reduce unnecessary costs for unneeded tests and procedures that serve no purpose except to enrich some doctors.
4)to remove health care from a profit making business to a right.
What Mr. Fusion said.
42–Yes, Mr Fusion, I could not have said it any better. That thing of phrasing a proposition so that people will agree with you rather than in a way that prompts people to disagree with you is worthy of contemplating.
Naah.
#42 – I can agree top to bottom except that if you remove “profit” motive, you still need to ensure somehow that doctors and nurses make a lot of money.