How much money are companies like Microsoft, the record and film industries and everyone else spending on DRM that only stays secure for a short time? DRM stops ordinary, non-techies from copying, but most have no interest in doing it anyway, so it’s a waste on them. Those adept enough at the tech will find copying and cracking software readily available, so it’s a waste on them. So, who are they protecting their wares against?
Confirmed: Microsoft’s Windows Media DRM cracked (again)
The Zune may not be the most popular portable media player, but you wouldn’t know it based on the game of cat and mouse that has been going on for nearly a year between Microsoft and “hackers” who have continually found ways to defeat Microsoft’s DRM.
Ars Technica has been able to confirm that the latest attacks on Microsoft’s Windows Media DRM work as proclaimed. Via an update of the Individualized Blackbox component (IBX), FairUse4WM can now remove DRM for Microsoft IBX versions 11.0.6000.6324 and earlier, on both XP and Vista.
[…]
FairUse4WM debuted last August, kicking off a battle between Microsoft and a user nicknamed “viodentia.” Microsoft released a patch for the crack almost immediately but ‘viodentia’ fired back with another hack, which then Microsoft answered with another patch.The back and forth at first made it appear as though ‘viodentia’ had found a serious backdoor into Windows Media DRM, and Microsoft suggested as much when legal representation, Bonnie MacNaughton, said that “our own intellectual property was stolen from us and used to create this tool.”
Recent DRM-related news:
– Sony is suing a DRM supply company because the software damaged users computers.
– The rise of DRM-free music.
– Music sales at lowest since records began
– RIAA sued for illegal investigatory practices.
Reverse engineering cannot be stopped — back in the dark ages (80’s) I even ran across circuit boards encased in epoxy or with chip ID’s scraped off. Did that stop anyone? Hahahaha.
Curious engineers most always can duplicate the advances of others. Too bad I can’t find a relevant quote about RE from someone like Asimov or Clarke. From Clarke, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” And Dilbert’s author, Scott Adams’ reply, “In my house, any sufficiently advanced technology is broken, and no one knows how to fix it.”
http://www.reteam.org/
What do you base your statement that most non-techies don’t want to copy their media?
I would think just about “all” people would make a back up copy or two with another for the kids, one for the car, vacation home etc. What the non-techies have accepted is that they can’t copy their media===and they accept it.
As time goes by, I think most non-techies hesitate to buy media unless “they really want it” because they can’t copy it.
That still leaves open whether or not drm suppresses overall sales. Just like my analysis and yours, I think the question is less one of considered judgment based on facts, and more of just projecting our own values?
1–Hey Bubba, I thought of you last night. Watching a show about how the earth was formed and these science guys had a unique “one of” machine that was a “gas gun” that could shoot an aluminum ball into a sandbox so the science guys could examine the resulting craters. The machine was very valuable because it could be rotated to different angles. The science guys said a few things about the perfect patterns formed, just like the meteors that struck earth.
I thought of you looking at that 100’s of thousands of dollars machine and recalling another show a few years ago where everything the science guys said was also said by another science guy who took his 22 rifle into his back yard and shot at the dirt. SAME PATTERNS WERE PRODUCED!!
Point being, with limited money, science projects should be selected so as not to squander our money? And we all have heard the joke about NASA spending millions on the pen that would write in space whereas the Ruskies used a pencil? Just because I want to spend our money wisely ((too expensive for manned missions in space)) doesn’t mean I don’t support research in all areas of science.
This is on thread because . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .I don’t think we should waste money on drm when we could make money on selling duplicating equipment. Go after the commercial level cheats, not the consumer wanting backups.
#2: Even if all CDs and DVDs were unprotected, I don’t think you’d see any increase in copying. Those who know how to and want to learn can already do it. The rest either have no interest in doing it (perfectly happy to pay, don’t want to do anything illegal, etc) or even the simple activities of making copies is beyond them (they are the ones who never go beyond what’s installed on their computers–assuming they have computers). There’s still a huge percentage of the population who find changing channels on their TV the most technically challenging thing they ever do. That’s changing as the tech-happy younger generations replace the older ones, but that will be some time to come. Once they do, we’ll have a society who all knows how to use the tools to crack DRM which, again, makes DRM irrelevant.
4–Now Uncle Dave==you didn’t answer my question in Post #2 at all, you just repeated what you initially posted. I take it then you are just “guessing” and have no facts, studies, experts in the field to refer to? Neither do I–just a wag on my part.
But, what is a non-techie??? Anybody that has a dvd player, but no computer? There you are right, those non-techies would not be doing any copying, but how many retired folks are there buying dvds? I disagree that people don’t care about spending money on a dvd or (horrors!) a replacement dvd for the one that got lost? I don’t think ((no facts, just my WAG)) that very few people would do that more than 1-2 times before the thrill of dvd ownership would wear thin.
So there are forces and motives to copy and not to copy and drm plays into both. I probably would already have upgraded to HDTV both freestanding and computer based, but I’m waiting for DRM to shake out a bit what with all these different cable standards and so forth.
NO increase at all if you could easily copy dvds? Kinda violates common sense in my book. Thats not the argument. The argument is that drm inhibits some people from buying dvd’s while preventing lots of others from copying.–ie, not black and white, but a tradeoff.
If I run into any “facts” I’ll give you a post back. Keep all your good stuff coming!!!
The point isn’t whether the DRM works, it’s whether the potential share buyers are fooled into thinking it makes the company more profitable.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it once again. The primary problem today in the world is not security such as DRM to counteract theives but rather low consciousness.
Surprisingly, many people who can afford paying retail price for DVD movies, CD music or mp3s would rather steal media like it is their inalienable right. The market has listened but yet there is still pervasive stealing which stems from the world view of many out there: egocentric. They think the world revolves around them. They feel that they are ENTITLED to free everything. I agree DVD movies are not worth the price since I usually only like seeing a movie once. Netflix arrived for people like me. Yet, others are trying to copy DVD movies for what? To avoid paying $20/month so they can instead give that to their local drug pusher? Low consciousness– low Love. All the people who are behind making movies lose out. Honest people lose jobs because low-level geeks find ways to break DRMs. Music? I subscribe to Rhapsody for $15/month. People show their true colors when trust is handed to them. When FREEDOM is handed to them. Why do we want a FREE America if the internet is going to turn people into theives. Yes, on the surface they look honest. They look like you. But go to their home PCs that are protected by search and seizure and you’ll find all kinds of illegal stuffs. I have no sypathy for people like that. There’s a name for people like that: hypocrites. People without integrity.
Again, the greatest threat to Liberty is not Islamic terrorists, its geek terrorism– American geek terrrorists.
Technology copying everywhere, and music sales at their lowest ever. I wonder if there’s a connection?
Is Fighting Piracy With DRM Same As Iraq Surge (ie, Failing, Damaging More Than Helping, Etc.)? How about, NO. You feel the need to politicize DRM as well? If DRM is a big concern for some Americans, you’re living a pretty sheltered life. I download audio books from Audible, which come with DRM, and I use Tunebite to convert them to MP3. Problem solved. Cry me a river, 5 minutes of research and any intelligent person can make back-up copies, or copies that can be streamed to other devices.
Also, while I mentioned Audible, and since Uncle Dave has set prior precedence by bringing politics into this discussion, goto http://www.audible.com/twit for a free copy of “Of Paradise and Power” by Robert Kagan, it will change your life.
#3, Bobbo, “And we all have heard the joke about NASA spending millions on the pen that would write in space whereas the Ruskies used a pencil?”
Don’t forget that the Fisher Space Pen was developed with private funds, never a dollar spent on research by NASA. As for bang for the tax buck, I’d still rather see NASA get some funding rather than dumping billions of dollars and young men’s lives into wars that seem to end with “Peace With Honor.” I can’t prove it just now, but I suspect there is more spent on TV and print advertising in the U.S. annually than NASA’s budget.
http://www.spacepen.com/Public/Home/index.cfm
BTW, Sounds like a cool TV show, was it on Discovery or some other basic cable type channel? If so, maybe I’ll get a look. One great series is on History Channel now, “The Universe”, hope some are watching, it’s a real piece of work.
History Channel’s official website for “The Universe”:
http://tinyurl.com/24jf9h
1. we have talked this Over and over…
2. Sony is creating there OWN service to sell Music.
3. Sony controls most of the RIAA
4. Music industry WONT advance until someone ELSE has Proven that something ELSE works. Such as internet distribution.
5 DRM is only there to challenge those BORD hackers out there, it really dont do much and it Doubles the cost of manufacturing.
6. BASIC intelligence…WHY would someone steal something? Either it COST to much, or they could sell it and make MONEY.
7. Solutions
a. Lower Price
b. Lower costs, NO CD/DVD, Less advertising, Less ART, MORE money= internet distribution = WORLD WIDE distribution.
8. problem with internet distribution.
a. only 60% of the USA has/wants computer, and only about 50-60% of those HAVE internet access.
b. WORLD wide, that number is abit LOWER, as in china(with Billions of people) access to computers and the internet is ALOT less, and the middle east? only the rich have decent access.
12,
THATS TREKIE(Y)…
Non-0techie, is a person that wouldnt know the inside of a Toaster from the Underside of your Car dashboard… could open a computer and NOT find a power supply… Probably dont know the Diff between a Sink, Sync, Sink…
Hey BubbaRay – That’s really nice music that plays when you go to that History Channel site. I guess that’s the theme from Universe.
[Totally off topic]
#14, Hop, “The Universe” is an extremely well produced show — set up that timer and take a look. The History Channel occasionally reruns the whole series to date. The episode about the Sun reports some of the recent research in progress by a friend of mine.
[Somewhat on topic]
No DRM on “The Universe”, record all you like and burn to a DVD.
Yeah, why should I buy a DVD, when I can rent one for $2 and then copy it? Or for that matter, someone should just put the movie online, and I can download a free copy. I can’t believe the studios would try to stop that.
I don’t think DRM is having much effect on the music scene. During the ’70s and ’80s it was nothing to have several hundred or even a couple thousand albums in your personal collection. Those days are gone, helped along by iTunes and other single song legit downloads.
Also, the quality of music has been going downhill ever since Roger Waters left Pink Floyd and some even believe since John Lennon’s assassination.
10—Bubba==I’m 90% sure it was a Universe Episode called “Spaceship Earth” about how the earth was formed.
I have always assumed the joke about the pen was indeed just a joke. Glad to have confirmation. Seeking a quality pen, I bought a “Space Pen” guaranteed to write thru grease at all angles with a compressed neon ink dispenser. It lasted about one month. Nothing I buy ever works.
[So off topic it’s ridiculous]
#20, Bobbo, well darn, maybe you violated the pen’s built-in DRM. 🙂 If you’re sure it’s a genuine Fisher, just return it and they’ll ship you a new one free. Mine’s lasted five years now. Try holding the ball point over a small flame (like from a Bic lighter) for a few seconds and see if that does the trick, sometimes without use the pressurized ball can get jammed. Otherwise, refer to post #1 (Scott Adams).
#19, pedro,
Concerts, yes.
New music, no.
I already own several albums of the music they do in concert.
#18 & #19:
Also, the quality of music has been going downhill ever since Roger Waters left Pink Floyd and some even believe since John Lennon’s assassination.
Comment by Mr. Fusion — 7/16/2007 @ 12:40 pm
#18 I don’t know about you, but I thought those last 2 tours without Waters were amazing.
Comment by pedro — 7/16/2007 @ 1:44 pm
And for some of us, we realized the Pink Floyd was a 70s band and we moved on.
There is more great music created right now than ever before.