Associated Press – July 10, 2007:
A woman who was injured and arrested during a struggle with a police officer over her brown lawn said she wants to move. “Since this has happened, I don’t want to live in Orem anymore,” Betty Perry said Monday. “I know now that I’ll never see another winter” in the Utah County city.
Perry, 70, refused to give her name to an officer who visited Friday to issue a ticket for failing to take care of her front yard. She fell and hurt her nose as he tried to arrest her.
Perry was taken to a jail, where she spent more than an hour before officials decided custody was inappropriate. The officer, whose name has not been released, was suspended.
“What happened was not the way that we prefer to do business,” Lt. Doug Edwards said. “But clearly she did some things that were wrong, too, in not just saying her name.”
Betty Perry
a) The officer was giving her a ticket for a regulation that she did not comply with. The officer has every right to go on her property to do so. He does not have the right to perform a search, but then again that wasn’t what he was doing.
b) She refused to cooperate with the officer which is an arrestable offence.
c) When the police officer tried to arrest her she resisted arrest.
So next time someone resists arrests, the police officer should just say “oh, it’s okay if you break the law, go on your way sir, sorry about the inconvenience” or better yet the police officer could just run away. Yeah that’s what this country really needs, police men who are afraid to do their job.
You see alot of people getting really passionate here about something they obviously know nothing about. But then again people love a juicy story, do us a favor and go watch some more WWF.
Why did the police officer get suspended? Because just like Ramos and Compean, it’s not about the law like it should be, it’s about the politics. The police want their funding, and the politicians want to save face. Politics rule the day in America.
The really sad thing here is that most citizents have the attention span of someone with ADD on speed. While the real problem here is with the ridiculous lawn watering regulations, once the police officer has been punished enough to appease the raging mob everyone will forget about this problem. People will continue having to pay tickets for not watering their lawns, and water bills will remain ridiculously high.
31. “The officer was giving her a ticket for a regulation that she did not comply with.”
“So next time someone resists arrests, the police officer should just say “oh, it’s okay if you break the law, go on your way sir, sorry about the inconvenience” or better yet the police officer could just run away.
You say he was there to give the ticket, then that’s what he should have done: Give her the ticket then leave. How fricken hard is that? The post office delivers billions of letters a day without ever assaulting anyone. Process servers serve millions of legal documents every year without ever committing assaults. What’s so hard about giving the ticket and leaving?
That’s why the cop was suspended. Instead of doing what he was supposed to do, deliver the ticket, he went way too far, someone got hurt, and the department got a huge black eye. You can try and justify it all you want, but if the cop would have done his job this wouldn’t be a story.
#31
a) Spin Bullshit
b) Plain Bullshit
c) More Spin Bullshit (there is no way you possibly know that, period.)
Paragraph 1) No one here said that but you, more spin with a lemon twist. Sounds like lemon bullshit, period.
Paragraph 2) Everyone but you is passionately wrong? Do us a favor and go read up on the Constitution and a thing called a Bill Of Rights.
Paragraph 3) Yeah politicians and police administrators are always screwing over bad cops. You know what? Good. Period
Paragraph 4) The really sad thing about these sentences is that you are way to judgmental, plus you believe that the problem is ridiculous lawn watering regulations instead of a cowboy idiot cop, and seem to think your an expert on the cost of water. Insults will not buy you respect. You would do well to remember that.
Conclusion
I’m guessing that you are a police officer. You know what? You should quit immediately with these kinds of attitudes, you do America, real cops and justice a disservice, period.
33. “I’m guessing that you are a police officer.”
I’m guessing he was kicked out of the police academy after he shot an old lady for making a right turn without using her turn signals.
aww, people with low IQs are so cute.
I am not a cop, nor would I want to be considering the amount of respect they receive from the people they are under payed to serve.
In fact let’s get rid of ’em all. Survival of the fittest. Anarchy woo hoo!!
… god I gotta find some place to post where people are not so obviously swayed by every bone the media throws at ’em.
Once again insults get you nowhere, they just enforce the impression that you have nothing intelligent to say so you resort to bullying tactics. The fact (maybe) that you are not a cop is a good thing and the world as a whole heaves a giant sigh of relief. Oh, and suggesting anarchy as a solution is about the stupidest idea I have seen in a long time, might want to work on raising that IQ a little before posting anywhere again.
Btw God won’t help you find a place to post, he has his own bones to throw, you’re on your own.
Period
Ahh, a decidedly intelligent post by our good friend Greymoon who’s last post contained such intelligent and insightfull comments such as
“Spin Bullshit”
and the much more detailed comeback,
“Plain Bullshit”
and this one is particularly good
“More Spin Bullshit (there is no way you possibly know that, period.)”
that last one is the greatest considering that the inverse would also be true, you have no way of knowing that it is not true and thus would rather prosecute the police without any information what so ever to go on.
Actually on the last count perhaps if you looked at more than one news source you would find that the police officer says she resisted arrest, but she claims she was only trying to go back to the house to call her son. Regardless unless the police officer has ESP, he doesn’t know what she’s trying to do, all he knows is that she is not doing what he says while he is trying to arrest her. A bit overzealous, perhaps, honestly I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But then again neither were any of us. However it does seem people are ready to blaim the police, hook, line and sinker without any real knowledge of what happened.
No I am saying that YOU’RE full of spin bullshit. The facts are grandma ‘fell’ to the ground and was injured as he tried to arrest her over a lawn watering infraction. The cop showed no restraint at all, no respect, and no situational awareness.
The facts are that the cop was suspended. Are his superiors covering their ass? Uh, ya! Why would they be covering their ass? Because cowboy cop blew a gasket and spewed “cop steam’ all over grandma.
Those are the facts, check all the news stories you want, they all contain these basic facts about the incident.
From the facts I deduce that the cop should probably not be a cop. He doesn’t have the mental stability.
The proper human, professional police procedure would have been to issue a Jane Doe citation at that address, hand it to her and walk away from the grandma. Utah may not have a Jane Doe procedure which if is the case, the cop should have written the ticket and mailed it to the home owner. Home ownership is public record. Simple, non-violent, and no bad press.
You’re assertion that a policeman can enter private property and demand anything without a warrant or in pursuit of a felon is absurd. Get over it.
Well Greymoon you are entitled to your opinion, which by you own admission is not based on any concrete facts only suppositions that you have made.
In the country where I live, we believe in something called “innocent until proven guilty”
Now I realize you may prefer the “where there’s smoke there’s fire” justice system, and you are entitled to that belief.
“You’re assertion that a policeman can enter private property and demand anything ”
actually we both know that is not what I said. What I said is that he was there to give a ticket and he can legally go on her private property to do so. Get a lawyer, check it out. It’s legal. Can he do whatever the hell he wants, of course not. But what happened after that is up to debate, and unless you were there I can’t possibly see how you would know.
If the cop just want ballistic on her for no reason what so ever, then I agree with you 100%, however that remains to be seen. I think it is incredibly naive to think she did not do anything, and to just start tossing out blame just cuz pigs sux is not very American in my apparently unpopular opinon.
Well JMB I have no idea what you’re saying now. You’re just making stuff up to suit your point. Please don’t put words in my mouth, they sound bad enough coming out of yours. Reading comprehension can be your friend.
Yes you said “..he was there to give a ticket and he can legally go on her private property to do so.” You know what? He can. You know what else? If she refuses to accept the ticket or cooperate he has to leave. Kind of left that part out didn’t you. Your BULLSHIT SPIN.
You say, way back in post #7, “She was not arrested for refusing to water her lawn. She was arrested for refusing to cooperate with the police.” You know what? Refusing to ‘cooperate’ is not an arrestable offence, ever heard of the taking the 5th? Your BULLSHIT SPIN.
You also say ” But what happened after that is up to debate, and unless you were there I can’t possibly see how you would know.”
Uh how is the FACT that she was ARRESTED up for debate? How is the FACT that she has ABRASIONS and CONTUSIONS up for debate? More of your BULLSHIT SPIN.
Look JMB, the cop had a simple task to perform, it got way out of hand because she wasn’t a sheeple and willingly submitting to a cops demands. Cowboy cop escalates it into an arrest. She wanted to call her son before she divulged any info. The cop doesn’t need ESP, he needs prudence. It is a FACT that he is now SUSPENDED because of his BEHAVIOR. Its kind of hard to bullshit spin these facts huh?
I find you incredibly unpatriotic to think that standing up for your own rights, as grandma did, is grounds for arrest and the ensuing injuries.
I could Michael Moore ya with – you also said ” I agree with you 100%” and be done with it. But I won’t, because Moore’s technique is about as enlightening as your insight.
Btw I don’t appreciate you calling officers of the law ‘pigs’, even this cop we are talking about here. And when did I toss out blame on cops because they sux? Hmmm, I didn’t did I. I said “These asshole cops are giving cops who are fair and professional a bad reputation. Period.” (post #19) Your BULLSHIT SPIN again.
I’m done arguing with you. I understand your point, I think its bullshit, get over it.
Read the article on the bbc, you will find that he is on administrative leave not suspended. Kind of a weak punishment for a violent cop.
Seeing as you are basing a large part of your view on that one point it starts to fall apart doesn’t it?
Have you ever seen excessive force up close?
I’m guessing you haven’t.
I used to be in the military and I have.
That’s not what it looks like.
Ever seen someone hit in the face with a metal object?
I don’t know how big this cop is, but from my experience there would be a lot more damage.
Too many missing facts, and too much that doesn’t pass the smell test for me.
I’m done arguing too so let’s sum up
My view,
Wait for all the facts before making flash judgments that could ruin someone’s career.
Greymoon’s view
Arrest + ABRASIONS and CONTUSIONS = slam dunk.
No more facts are needed because these 2 facts are indisputable.
nuf said.
It makes me truly sad watching people let the media lead them by the nose and make flash judgments before the facts are in.
35. “aww, people with low IQs are so cute.”
Gee, JMB, you’re not even going to respond to my comment in 32?! Are you too busy coming up with new ad hominem attacks?! I’ll say it again.
The simple fact is that the cop’s job was to deliver a citation. He failed. An old lady got hurt and the cop was suspended.
I used to work as a process server. It’s not easy. Most of the people know they’re going to get served and know you’re coming eventually. They avoid being served like you have Aids. Yet, in my three years not once did I ever physically harm anyone.
Either the cop was inexperienced and he didn’t know he could have just left the citation and left. Or he was a prick and felt he was being disrespected. But it doesn’t matter either way, because either way it was all his fault.
#41
1) No, not my point at all, learn to read.
2) Yes, another ASSumption of yours that fails. Where these metal objects alien in nature? Why are we talking about metal now?
3) Your view – see above.
4) My view – Thank you for serving our country. And see above.
4a) The cops view – Slam Dunk a grandma.
5) Agree.
6) It truly makes me sad that you ASSume the media leads me by the nose. Very lame name calling and spin.
#25 – None needed: I’m never wrong. Further, I gave my account of what I witnessed, not a statement of fact. Learn to read.
#26 – Wow, you really are an idiot. You can’t recognize a simple account of what happened; I have no interest in doing the editor’s job of finding a realistic accounting of events.
Further, you can’t get past the fact that most cops aren’t evil. Pathetic.
It’s nice to know that no matter what I post, you two are around to make me look brilliant.
Evidently post #44 is the dumpster of Jim Hill insight.
This whole post is wrong therefore you are wrong. Buck up little Jimmy, one day you too will learn to read, it may just open your eyes to the truth.
45. “Evidently post #44 is the dumpster of Jim Hill insight.”
You guys have to stop arguing with “James Hill.” He’s not a person. It’s basically a spam bot modified to start flame wars on blogs. The code is actually quite brilliant, even though the comments themselves are pretty lame. We’ve tried blocking the IP addresses but that was pointless as it constantly changes. Just ignore it, we do.
okay kids, one last time.
Everyone, please check your sources, stories conflict as to whether the cop is on administrative leave or suspended, since the implications here are misleading I suggest people verify this before making any claims on the basis that he is suspended.
Jerk-face, I wasn’t intentionally ignoring you I was focusing in on Greymoon. I do understand your point, but postmen have to deal with a lot less hatred than cops do.
“How fricken hard is that? ”
Honestly I don’t know, considering there are no facts on exactly what went down it’s kind of difficult to say how hard it was.
Greymoon, after your previous comment showing that you don’t even know what the 5th amendment is, I should give up. Once again I made the mistake of thinking you were actually following this story. If you had been following the story you would know that, gramma accuses the cop of hitting her in the face with his handcuffs. I tell you what, get the weakest adult you know, let him or her hit you square in the nose with a pair of handcuffs and see if you don’t need stitches.
Now take “cowboy cop” who “blew a gasket” and proceeds to beat down an old lady… and she has bruises and scratches… (I realized you probably don’t know what ABRASIONS and CONTUSIONS are so I went through the trouble of translating them into words you hopefully understand). Okay so if only getting bruises and scratches from a vicious cop beating with a pair of handcuffs seems far fetched, then one could also make the case that she is not telling the truth. Hmmm….
So was the cop being a hardass and a jerk for ticketing her? Yes.
Was arresting her illegal? No
How did she get her injuries? When the cop tried to arrest her, she probably jerked away, slipped and fell all on her own. Because honestly those injuries don’t look like injuries that came from a cop beating to me. The thing with this last point is, until somebody comes forward with a video or we find another witness, nobody knows. THERE ARE NO FACTS detailing what happened at this point in time. And apparently a lot of people here don’t require them.
So people take your angry mob, go lynch some police officer, when the next juicy news story comes down the pipe, rinse and repeat. Heaven forbid people would,
a) go through the trouble of reading more than one reporting of a story, including a foreign news network(usually contain less American political spin)
b) use common sense when deducing which statements are likely to be true, and which just don’t add up
c) wait for all the facts before proceeding forward in anger
Given time the facts will either support that a crime was committed or not, personally since we are talking about the career of someone who dedicates their life to serving and protecting us, I would like to wait and see before I decide.
47. “Honestly I don’t know…”
You honestly do not know how hard it is to take a citation and drop it in someone’s house? If she refused to open the front door, drop it on the front porch. If she refused to let him on her land, throw it onto her land. These situations are not hard to imagine.
“So was the cop being a hardass and a jerk for ticketing her? Yes.”
Finally, something we can all agree on.
“Was arresting her illegal? No”
Damn, we’re back to where we started. You’d be right if the cop had an arrest warrant. You’re be absolutely right. But in the US the law states that a police officer who arrests someone without an arrest warrant does so at his own peril. In other words, if a cop arrests someone on his own, he is on his own. No one has to back him up, his partner, is department, no one.
In this case he had no basis to arrest her as all he had to do was to deliver the citation. So the department suspended him. And because he did not have an arrest warrant, he is open to civil liabilities.
Really you need an arrest warrant to arrest someone?
If the police officer does not see the infraction himself he needs a warrant, if he does see the infraction himself one is not required.
So if a neighbor reported you for something, he could not arrest you on that basis alone, however if you were still in violation when the officer arrived he could. Granted he cannot just run up and grab her without due cause, but the citation provides all the due cause he needs. If he in fact did break the law in arresting her, he would not be on vacation(administrative leave), he would be in custody.
49. “Really you need an arrest warrant to arrest someone?”
I didn’t say that. What I’m saying is that if an officer has an arrest warrant, he can arrest the person, and if for whatever reason, the arrest turns out to be invalid, it won’t be his fault. He had a warrant and carried it out. He can’t be blamed for that.
Most of the time when a cop arrests someone without a warrant, they have a pretty good reason. For example, maybe they saw a crime being committed. Or maybe they heard a pretty compelling statement from an eye witness that a crime had been committed.
But the cop here was not at the old lady’s house to arrest her. He was there to deliver the citation. She refused to have anything to do with it. So instead of just dropping the citation and leaving, he got pissed and arrested her. For what? For refusing to take the citation. Did she need to take the citation? Nope. If she wouldn’t take it in her hands, he could have dropped it at her feet. On her porch. In her driveway, etc.
“the citation provides all the due cause he needs”
Nope, the citation was a ticket not an arrest warrant. The citation itself gave the officer no cause to arrest her.
“If he in fact did break the law in arresting her, he would not be on vacation(administrative leave), he would be in custody.”
Not with police unions. Chances are, even if he committed a crime the department could not fire him (or any other officer who committed a crime) until they are convicted of a crime. Now if the local prosecutor wanted to charge him, he could, at his own discretion. At that time an arrest warrant would be issued for the cop’s arrest and then he could in custody.
“She refused to have anything to do with it. So instead of just dropping the citation and leaving, he got pissed and arrested her. ”
And you are basing this on what, since no facts are available on what happened, other than he arrested her and she got injured?
You saw him get pissed? Oh really well maybe I saw her break the law… However in reality neither of us saw anything.
The only other facts available are what she says happened, which is one sided and has holes.
The ticket gives him due cause to be there, as for the arrest NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED. From what I have read she was released immediately so her arrest may not even have been processed. I have not read details on the arrest please provide them to me if you have, as I am truly interested in what really happened. Perhaps it’s on the smoking gun they often have that kind of documentation there, I haven’t checked yet. But since the name of the officer was also not released it is not easy to find information on the actual arrest. And you keep saying Arrest warrant, but the fact is if she did something illegal while he was there, he does not need an arrest warrant to arrest her. Without the details pertaining to the actual arrest I am not going to jump to conclusions like everyone else.
51. “And you are basing this on what, since no facts are available on what happened, other than he arrested her and she got injured?”
Well, there are only two possibilities. Either she accepted the citation or she refused the citation. Assuming she accepted the citation I don’t see any basis to arrest her. If she did accept the citation and he arrested her anyway, the cop was an absolute asshole. Therefore, it is only reasonable to assume that she did not accept the citation.
“The ticket gives him due cause to be there”
You’re correct.
“as for the arrest NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED”
Well, two people know. But you are correct, we don’t know. But if you don’t know, why are you defending the cop?
“And you keep saying Arrest warrant, but the fact is if she did something illegal while he was there, he does not need an arrest warrant to arrest her.”
But even you admit we don’t know if she did anything illegal. And your entire argument that he had a right to arrest her depends on her doing something illegal. Now maybe he attempted to give her the citation and she decked him. That would justify her arrest. But that would be speculation at this point.
“Without the details pertaining to the actual arrest I am not going to jump to conclusions like everyone else.”
But you are jumping to conclusions. You’re not being neutral. You’ve been defending the cop this entire time.
Let’s agree that we don’t know what happened and leave it at that.
“Well, there are only two possibilities. ”
I live in a world where there are a lot more than just 2 possibilities
“Well, two people know. But you are correct, we don’t know. But if you don’t know, why are you defending the cop?”
Because he serves and protects our people every day. In my opinion he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I don’t consider myself to actually be defending the cop so much as saying let’s wait and see, but I can see how one might take it that way. What really bothered me about all of this is, seeing people getting all angry and ready to hang this guy when nobody has heard his side of the story.
He might be a bad cop, he might be a good cop with bad luck on a bad day, but like I keep saying I’ll wait for the facts before I make a decision.
53. “I live in a world where there are a lot more than just 2 possibilities”
In your alternative universe, what’s the third possibility? 1. She accepted the citation. 2. She refused to accept the citation. 3?!
“Because he serves and protects our people every day.”
So, on one hand you yell that “NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED” but yet you somehow know that he serves and protects people everyday? How do you know that? My guess is that you’re assuming that based on no evidence whatsoever.
“I don’t consider myself to actually be defending the cop so much as saying let’s wait and see”
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.
“like I keep saying I’ll wait for the facts before I make a decision.”
So this was not a decision: “Because he serves and protects our people every day.” Because it sure in heck sounds like a decision to me.
All the various possibilities are in the details, which to me are pretty important. Did he try to staple the ticket to her forehead? Did she slap him across the face and spit on him? Not likely, but the fact is the details are important and we don’t know the details, and there is a lot more to it then accepting or not accepting a citation.
Yes I am assuming that as a police officer, he serves and protects everyday. It is this basis on which I do afford him the benefit of the doubt. Do I know him personally? No. Do I know that he is in fact a god cop? No. I feel that the police in general, not this one guy specifically, deserve the benefit of the doubt. If you disagree with this, fine. This is simply a matter of my opinion, but if you ever get accused of a crime, pray that people wait for the facts before they make a judgment.
I have not made a decision, if information comes out that proves him guilty I will accept it and be happy to see them put away a bad cop. It’s the whole innocent until proven guilty thing, and I haven’t seen any reasonable proof that shows he committed a crime.
Spin, spin, spin JMB is evidently a washing machine stuck on the spin cycle.
No one here is a jury convicting this guy without do process. We are expressing our opinions duh. You began posting in this thread with “You gotta love the spin”, then proceed to do a sterling spin job yourself.
Just because I spun your ‘period(s)’ with my first post you get your panties in a bunch. Then you go on in your next post to spin your position again, put words in your detractors mouths and throw in a few insults. In other words more spin, which I guess you love. Then your next nine or so posts pretty much spin your position again and again, all the while spewing insults like a leaky Rodney Dangerfield.
Ever think grandma may be innocent until proven guilty? She is an old lady who can’t afford to water her lawn so I give her the benefit of the doubt. If she ‘took the 5th’ momentarily to call her son, this cop should have had the patience and prudence to restrain his ‘cowboy’ considering the circumstances of the violation. He could have written a ticket dropped it at the door and left. Simple, non-violent and serving the public.
Period.