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#31 – AHW – No, I was actually casting an aspersion at your proclaimed penchant for obscure and highly unlikely homosexual activity. In the current political environment, a predilection such as yours could reasonably be expected to cause you some difficulties.
#31 – AHW – No, I was actually casting an aspersion at your proclaimed penchant for obscure and highly unlikely homosexual activity (as refences in Comment #17). In the current political environment, a predilection such as yours could reasonably be expected to cause you some difficulties. Just thought you should know.
On the other hand, irreverence such as yours (as highlighted by your Vader remark) is to be commended. And for that I DO commend you.
#31 – AHW – No, I was actually casting an aspersion at your proclaimed penchant for obscure and highly unlikely homosexual activity (as refenced in Comment #17). In the current political environment, a predilection such as yours could reasonably be expected to cause you some difficulties. Just thought you should know.
On the other hand, irreverence such as yours (as highlighted by your Vader remark) is to be commended. And for that I DO commend you.
25–I don’t know how much those 3 boats and crew cost Spain at the time. But when they launch 1000 ship (ok, maybe just hundreds, wont look it up) fleets to fight the English, I can’t image 3 small commercial ships is actually so much?
Anyway, the cost today of a space program IS enormous. Money is limited. Known expected/hoped for returns is minimal. We can’t do everything, so lets choose wisely?
Sorry I’m late.
Angel you horny bastard.
26—Cripes!!! We gotta justify the space program on the cost of the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Marie???? I will spend some time later doing the Google dance.
But I accept your .8% number. I guess anything we could imagine can be justified by only being .8%? But how could say .7% affect the search for energy independence???? Stem cell research?? Immunization research and innoculation implants?? Advanced hydroponics??? Aritifical food?? Genome research??? Carbon sequestration??? There is not a signle idea that does not deserve .8% of our resources to investigate. How to sort thru the demands??
I don’t “intend” to protest agaisnt exploration, although I would if it came up directly, I AM disagreeing that “our future is out there.” Space is mostly empty right? But we don’t go to the empty parts, we go to where stuff is. I don’t think anyone can assert what is reasonably there will help us here on earth. OK–we can make water, to make hydrogen, to fuel rocketships?===big nothing. Tow meteors to the moon to mine their exotic metals??==big nothing.
Again, the cost of putting a pound of stuff into space is simply and always will be too expensive and too risky. So, we should do robot exploration for the knowledge and such but lets be intelligent about where we put our limited resources. You don’t have to go to the Moon or to Mars to develop rocketry and satellite services–or teflon pots.
30–I’m not religious and avoid dogma and mantra when spotted. The only difference between an insightful, dreaming conqueror and a bean counting realist is “who is right?”
It takes just as much humanity and imagination to restrict one to the world of the actually doable. There is no more humanity in someone wanting to plant their seed in the stars than someone who wants to preserve GOMBE. Absent some unknown technology/physics, spacetravel outside our solar system is impossible. If you do the math, we can’t even build a rocket big enough to hold the fuel necessary to accellerate to anything near the speed of light.
I don’t admire people who cant seperate reality from “good ideas” Who knows what direction such nuttiness will go?
Keep your feet on the ground.
bobbo – That HAS to be flamebaiting. Too bad the entry is about to expire.
#36 & 37 – To boil your message down, you are saying – Don’t try.
Its a good thing that message will not be heeded.
38—I’m completely serious. I think you’re taking something I am saying and extending it to something I’m not saying?
39–Manned mission to Mars?==Dont do it. Robots to Mars, OK.
While “aside” can be distracting ====all I’m saying is====
Our future is here on Earth, not in the stars. After that, space developement (satellites!) should continue as one of many worthy goals. It has captured the imagination of many in the public, it shouldn’t capture the public purse.
I’m writing this at 120PM PST and this is the last thread on my Firefox browser. I can post to this thread by going back one day in the calendar at the above right hand side. Threads only die because people lose interest in the subject.
Everything is fleeting.
bobbo – Okay you’re serious – and you do have a point that there is a helluva lot left to do here on Earth. But I would like like to point out that you wouldn’t even BE here if not for the first folks that tried to sail across the oceans. Undoubtedly, THAT obstacle seemed insurmountable at the time. And then air travel – heck, even Jimmy Doolittle walked away from more than a dozen plane crashes before the technology made the aircraft more reliable. We’re just getting started in space travel, and have no idea what is to be gained out there. We are limited only by our imagination. Everything man has ever accomplished started out as a problem that somebody refused to believe couldn’t be solved.
Yup, and just as I posted and went to re-read, it was off my browser page, but I can still read and post.
What again makes space exploration unique among all our other scientific questions?
#33
The thing is #2 said a funny remark to lighten the mood and you acted like a complete jerk.
And BTW Just because you see on TV (specially NBC) those extra skinny, fat free fairies; it does not mean that the rest of the gay world gravitates around them.
IMO the future of Space flight will die drowning in two things: Stupid lawsuits and obscenely expensive pantent licences.
42—Each question stands on its own. Appeals to history are most often wrong in that each situation is unique. I’m sure you can make the counter arguments just as well.
I don’t know what was insurmountable at that time. There was an unknown but a pretty good theory the world was round. Lets give it a try–nothing else much to do.
But here is the kicker—“We are limited only by our imagination.” NO. We are limited by “gravity”–a law of the universe.
And I believe we DO KNOW what is out there and what is available to us and it is all NOT WORTH THE MONEY. Recall–I’m saying use robots and develop rocketry and satelittes. Do you really want to spend money on Manned trip to Mars or Lunar Station? Now I like the Space Station—if we can AFFORD it.
“Everything man has ever accomplished started out as a problem that somebody refused to believe couldn’t be solved.”===So has every failure. COST COST COST is the issue.
44—You gotta admit that “waste of skin” is creative and funny. I think Dawg was just going for his own joke and overshot the mark just a bit.
#45 – AHW – Point 1 – Noted, and agreed: I WAS hasty and intolerant, as #2’s WAS a little funny.
Point 2 – I know. I have some gay friends, and they’re excellent people. I was referring to the specific individuals mentioned in comment #17, or at least one of them. I don’t know about Hoskins, nor do I care. No idea where you got anything to do with body types in my remark..?
Point 3 – It seems more likely that it will languish in public apathy.
#46 – bobbo – I was leaning (although I failed to express it, evidently) more toward the KNOWLEDGE to be gained out there than the minerals, per se. Perhaps the notion of robots doing our work and learning for us out there will be feasible when we develop true autonomous AI that we can control. But that’s a contradiction in terms, isn’t it? They’re already speculating now that the F-22 Raptor is likely to be the last manned fighter aircraft. We have the Predator, which is controlled remotely to do surveillance and ground attack. Even more impressive IMO, we have the Global Hawk which has completed several missions totally autonomously (take off in the CONUS and land in Hawaii, for example). But those are examples with known parameters, and the ability to override promptly. The distances involved in space exploration make that impossible, and so require autonomous operation, at least.
“We are limited by gravity.” To an extent, that’s true, but we have also demonstrated the ability to USE gravity to our advantage in space. If we can develop launch facilities on the moon, for example, the obstacle of gravity is significantly reduced. Stepping stones.
As for the COST COST COST, I am of the opinion that it is an absolute and unmitigated national DISGRACE that we have poured TRILLIONS of dollars into death and destruction in Iraq (and continue to do so) to the point where we didn’t have the reserves to help the people whose lives were decimated by Hurricane Katrina. Better to do something
positive with it, don’t you think?
Again, I agree that there is much to be done here on earth, but I’m not hopeful that we’ll get our priorities in order any time soon. In space, I see hope.
#47 – bobbo, again – Thanks, sort of.
48—Knowledge and minerals are interchangeable with the determinative factor is COST. Cost and gravity cause us to prioritize good goals. Whats the cheapest way to gain the knowledge you think is discoverable? There is so much we need to know. Spending in one area short other valuable areas. NOT saying space is wrong or not good, just other priorities would reap more return, more Knowledge etc.
I will say “Space is NOT our future.” Earth bound we are.
Scientists tell us that it’s only a matter of time until earth experiences another meteor strike on the order of Campeche in the Yucatan. I don’t know if that’s true, but if it IS, that would seem to be be a compelling argument for scouting out a new habitat. And as for cost again, Rutan is right: government has a vested interest in maintaining its voracious appetite for our tax dollars. Perhaps a new tax structure is in order – one where each individual taxpayer prioritizes what he wants his tax dollars spent on, and the government actually HAS to accede to the taxpayers’ wishes. I know – there I go, drawing outside the lines again.
#48
Well, you were questioning my predilection for such porn and to be honest I’m already conditioned thanks to a bunch of prissy skinny queens and their “Why would you like to see old folk doing it? Why don’t you go for the twinks instead?” so that’s usual my default reply.
50—That could be modeled pretty easily. I think one challenge would be that there are literally 10’s of thousands of government programs and most taxpayers would only come up 5 or 6 broad categories? The devil would be in the detail. While government does a horrible job, its hard to conceptualize anything better===maybe total transparency thru the internet would be a start.