Psst, Michael Moore: Health costs screw business, too
Because he’s a documentary filmmaker and not a politician, Michael Moore isn’t obliged to pretend that fixing America’s health-care system is a mere matter of realigning market forces. Moore’s new film, Sicko, makes a straightforward case for “socialized medicine.” Most other industrialized democracies have adopted some form of socialized medicine—Sicko visits France, Britain, and Canada—and while Moore can be faulted for depicting these health-care systems as flawless, the truth is that in most respects they are superior to the American system. Sicko tells story after heartbreaking story about ordinary people getting screwed out of the health-care benefits they thought they had coming. Yet one significant victim of America’s market-based health care system is left out: market capitalism itself.
I refer not to health insurers, nor to health maintenance organizations, nor to for-profit hospitals, but rather to businesses outside the health-care sector that are saddled with the growing cost of providing health insurance to their employees. This obligation puts American companies at a disadvantage with respect to foreign competitors whose governments provide health care. The most obvious victim, ironically, is a company Moore knows very well: General Motors. Because of health-care obligations, the automaker that Moore pilloried in his first film, Roger and Me, is fighting for its life.
In other Sicko news, Google dis’ed the movie so as to not upset the health care industry who spends $$$ on advertising on Google. Or did it?
Socialized medicine leads to less freedom. We’ve already seen seat belt laws and smoking bans justified based on the health care cost for treating people. What do you think would happen if all health care was at public expense?
In my opinion, there are two issues that make this problem very difficult for us to solve at the moment.
First, the one you point out, is that the blood sucking lawyers have driven health care prices through the roof by suing for astronomical sums every time something bad happens. Should people be compensated when there’s a screw up? Yes. But when you get greedy and ask for an outrageous amount of cash, you’re driving up the cost of care for everyone else. There’s a very good reason an X-ray costs $2000 in the US. …and it ain’t the price of the film.
Any politician who campaigns for socialized medicine has no credibility if they’re taking donations from trial lawyers at the same time. They created a lot of the mess so why would we believe they can solve it?
The second problem is illegal immigration. How can we possibly do universal health care when we have absolutely no control over who’s coming into the country? If you think they’re pouring in now, just watch what happens when there’s free health care for all. In fact, I don’t know how you even begin to analyze the cost of socialized health care under the current circumstances. I can just hear the bean counters now. …”we estimate it will cost between $50bil-$200bil a year, depending on how many Mexicans jump over the fence”. Nice.
Put a cap on the lawsuits and get real with illegal immigration. Then we’ll be ready to talk about health care.
39—Good job, shooting at flies while the bull runs wild.
The GOUSA does an EXCELLENT job of running many enterprises. Lets take mail. Do we want a system of excellent overnight service for $12 per letter, or 2-3-4-5-6-7 days at 42 cents? And given a choice, I always say both. Lets have a system that works for everybody and those who want overnight surgery can pay for it.
Medical malpractice lawsuits could be done away with immediately as the cost of correcting the error is paid up front without having to sue. Getting rid of bad docs could be done by peer review.
Illegal aliens should get the same ER care as anyone else and then deported to the other side of the wall.
#39
Oh yeah, let’s blame Consuelo the cleaning lady for the high health care costs in the USA, every time she sweeps the floor you have to pay $100 more for a band aid.
40
You’re nuts if you think the legal lobby is going to allow any bill that takes away their “right” to sue for medical malpractice. I agree with you that it should work that way, but it won’t happen. Let’s not forget who really runs Washington.
As for deporting the illegals, what makes you think that will happen after we have a new Health Care system if it’s not happening now? There are more than a few “sanctuary” cities in the US where the local authorities aren’t even allowed to ask about someones legal status let alone deport them from the country. The government has no credibility at all when it comes to immigration enforcement, so why would we believe that we’re not gonna end up providing free care for 10s of millions of illegals?
#42 – You’re nuts if you think the legal lobby is going to allow any bill that takes away their “right” to sue for medical malpractice.
It isn’t their right… It’s YOUR right.
Blaming lawyers is getting almost as tired as blaming liberals for whatever the hell it is that needs a scapegoat in these threads.
And fuck any of you who’ll take away my right to have recourse to the law to settle a legitimate dispute just because you feel like manufacturing some self righteous indignation every time you read about an aberrant case where the system is abused. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater… That seems like our collective solution to everything.
My #44 attempt at blockquote failed. I was addressing #27
42—The post is about CHANGING the status quo. Cant do that without upsetting some folks. Too bad one of them is YOU.
Even with no change at all to the law, having medical bills paid for and service delivered immediately would take away 99% of medical malpractice business.
45—Keep practicing. I can’t get any of the html coding to work either.
Then why dont BIG BUSINESSes lobby for *socialized medicine*
I am all in for a mixed system where both public & private hospitals exist and the private HMOs have to truly lure customers with their service rather than looking for ways to deny service.
The citizen should be either allowed to pay higher taxes for Universal Healthcare OR go for lower taxes + insurance from a private HMO
47—I’ve not understood why big business doesn’t shift this cost to the taxpayer for the past 20 years the cost of healthcare in each product has been complained of. Eg==last I heard, there is a $2100 cost of healthcare in each unit GM produces compared to zero for Honda.
Anybody know why? Unions against lowered benefits?? Thats just the auto workers compared to everyone else?
This article reminds me of how great everybody hyped communism up to be when it ended up failing in the end. Look, our system isn’t perfect, but we can’t pretend like France, Canada, or Britain’s is really any better. They still pay for their medicine, actually they pay more. They just charge them in concealed ways that most people don’t see. Also, the average waiting time for surgeries is much higher in Canada than in the U.S. Many Canadians come here for surgeries because Canada is so slow. Listen people, capitilism works and it always will work if we give it time and do not rush into the latest trend. Let the market work itself out and don’t depend on your governemnt to do everything for you because it will fail you.
#43
“And fuck any of you who’ll take away my right to have recourse to the law to settle a legitimate dispute just because you feel like manufacturing some self righteous indignation every time you read about an aberrant case where the system is abused.”
Aberrant cases my ass. That stuff happens constantly which has driven insurance rates sky high for anyone in medicine. Which, of course, gets passed along to the consumer thereby increasing the likelihood that working class folks won’t be able to afford health care.
Funny how liberals like to rail against greedy oil companies but they can tolerate greedy lawyers to no end. Oh, I forgot, THAT special interest tends to give money to Democrats. Nothing like standing on principle.
#46
“Even with no change at all to the law, having medical bills paid for and service delivered immediately would take away 99% of medical malpractice business.”
The word that stands out there is “immediate”. It stands out because there is no way in hell patients are going to get in to see someone quicker if the government runs health care. I heard an interview on Bloomberg radio yesterday (wish I could remember the guys name) in which it was pointed out that 40% of cancer patients in England die before seeing an oncologist. So much for immediate service.
Mary-Catherine lays on the front porch,
Listening to the rain fall down flat.
Like tiny parachutes escaping from the storm,
Says sometimes she feels like that.
She tries to smile as she looks up at him,
Says it’s best if they stay apart.
Says I’m not looking for anything serious,
Don’t wanna risk a broken heart.
And that’s as far as she goes,
But there’s nothing worse than being just friends.
When she knows well that he knows,
Love is like a flood that never ends.
I was on a jury for a medical malpractice case once and one of the arguments the lawyer made for us siding with his clients was the doctor had malpractice insurance so it wouldn’t hurt him personally, so why not give his clients some money. Although it was hard to do considering the clients, the lawyer was, I think, genuinely shocked that we sided with the doctor who had done nothing wrong.
What do you think…
that when someone NOTEs/realizes that the Price of JUICE and is more Expencive then Beer or GAS..
That the Corps/Gov Raise the Prices of Gas and Beer..
Pedro, why the need to bring up poliitcs? I said Medicare not the VA. The VA is truly socialized medicine. The government runs the hospitals, pays the doctors and other staff and does a pretty lousy job.
The part you don’t know about the military is there are veterans who are on Champus and Medicare and are not forced to go to VA facilities. They are very happy with their coverage.
Simply put, the VA system = socialized medicine. Medicare = national health insurance. There is a big difference between the two. Ask the people who are on Medicare if they are unhappy with their care.
VA, has had cuts across the board, and a LARGE raise to the HEAD of the VA.
The Doctors are Interns in MOST cases, and dont know there Head from a hole in the ground.
Any disabled VET, must PROVE he is disabled, unless it was IN ACTION, and THEN there best idea of care is to hand out pain relievers.
Medicare, The Doctors get a Stipend for services rendered to EACh patient. Most doctors dont really want to see you, except 1 time per year.
The List of drugs, is limited, and on the CHEAP list unless your doctor says NOTHING else will work or there is NO alternative made YET.
“Because he’s a documentary filmmaker and not a politician,”?!
Where the hell did that statement come from.
Of Course he is a politician, what other reason is there for him to be doing all of the personal appearances and for shading the facts to meet his preconceived biases.
That pretty well meets my definition of politician.
Moore’s not a documentarian or politician – he’s a propagandist.
#50 Aberrant cases my ass. That stuff happens constantly which has driven insurance rates sky high for anyone in medicine.
Back your bullshit claim up. “Constantly” doesn’t mean anything other than what I already know, which is that you want it to be true.
Funny how liberals like to rail against greedy oil companies but they can tolerate greedy lawyers to no end. Oh, I forgot, THAT special interest tends to give money to Democrats. Nothing like standing on principle.
If you wanna be a guest on Sean Hannity, then keep prattling out more of that bullshit. It’s probably easy to make nebulous blanket statements about how “lawyers” are to blame for whatever it is you perceive as an injustice. It saves you from having to think.
#49,
(France, Canada, or Britain ) still pay for their medicine, actually they pay more. They just charge them in concealed ways that most people don’t see.
Not true.
Americans pay approximately 15% of GDP towards health care. Canadians pay about 9% of GDP for health care. Canadians live longer and healthier. Yes there are waiting lists for some service, but emergency services are handled urgently. Europeans pay even less.
The typical health insurance company pays 25% of its expenditures on administration. The Provincial of Ontario health insurance pays less than 1% on administration. You see, it costs a lot more to tell patients and doctors a procedure isn’t covered then it is to actually pay for the procedure. When the Insurance company President is paid over $100 MILLION, then premiums reflect that.
#50,
There is no fool like a stupid fool.
Aberrant cases my ass. That stuff happens constantly which has driven insurance rates sky high for anyone in medicine. Which, of course, gets passed along to the consumer thereby increasing the likelihood that working class folks won’t be able to afford health care.
Bullshit.
(From 1991 and 2002)In states with caps, the median annual premium went up by 48.2%, but, surprisingly, in states without caps, the median annual premium increased at a slower clip–by 35.9%.
http://www.weissratings.com/malpractice.asp
Appearing before a Texas Legislature committee, GE Insurance, America’s largest malpractise insurer said in a … filing: “Non-economic damages are a small percentage of total losses paid. Capping non-economic damages will show loss savings of 1.0%.”
http://tinyurl.com/337d88
Of course, if a surgeon cuts off the wrong testicle, you won’t mind. The responsibility issue raises its ugly head again. State medical boards are not disciplining bad physicians. As with any profession, a small minority commit the vast majority of malpractice.
#60,
My bad. I was in a rush to do something so I didn’t proof read that post very well.
Add to #49,
Canadians pay for their health care through taxes. Some also pay small premiums. Americans pay for their health care through taxes but mostly premiums. As the article above points out, it is the insurance premiums that are really hurting large American companies, not the national cost of health care.
#61 – What actually are the problems of the VA?
People say the VA does a bad job. A bad job of what? My point is, if I need to move a three bedroom apartment, a moving truck will do a good job and a 1973 Ford Pinto will do a bad job.
What is the VA scaled to handle? What is it actually being asked to handle? How is it being funded and staffed? I get the feeling that the VA was doing just fine a few years ago, and perhaps the issues it faces aren’t about shortcomings with the VA, so much as short-sightedness on the part of… Oh Christ, I’ll say it… The Bush Administration’s bungling of everything?
Anyone a real expert on this who can say what it really up at the VA?
63—Most claims of bad care are very vague. I recall one was that they did not offer “individualized care” and had patient/nurse ratio’s too low.
This referes to the fact that VA often uses dormitory setups of 10-15-20 patients in a room. This lowers cost and nursing requirements. Some studies show that recovery is aided because the patients have company and conversation.
Its all what you measure and how you measure it.
>>and I thought you were all appalled at how the VA were treating
>>their patients. Yeah, extend that to the whole society.
The VA was doing a pretty GOOD job during the Clinton years. It was only when Junior King Dumbya cheated his way into office that it became a cesspool of suffering and death, staffed with 18-year-old “doctors” who can’t tell a blown-off limb from a splinter.
That guy has really fucked up everything in this country. What was good, he made bad. And what was already bad, he made worse. But hey, at least Halliburton’s making a lot of money, and that’s really all that counts.
Michael Moore is deluded. Here’s a great example of the UK health system; my 16 month old nephew has a serious heart condition which required the insertion of a stint at 3 months. Now he’s grown out of the stint which basically means that any physical activities turn him blue as his blood oxygen levels drop (difficult for a toddler). He is on a waiting list over 9 months long for tests to get an updated implant! It will take a complete crash for him to get seen sooner.
>>Michael Moore is deluded.
I don’t see most residents of the UK, or of Canada, or of France, or of any other civilized country with health-care ratings better than ours clamoring for a system that pays the flunky in charge of an HMO a billion dollars to go the fuck away. I have lived in Canada and France, and most people seem very grateful that they don’t have to put up with the profit-center that refusing health care to patients in need has become in the US.
#56 ECA, your post was the most ignorant one I have ever read on this blog. Do you work for an insurer or are you just a moron?
68,
Got friends that are Vets?
are you on medicare and medicaid??
Have you read the requirements that Medicare devide purchases between ALL of there suppliers EVEN tho they could purchase the BEST device, at a CHEAP price from 1 maker.