Offer a 4CV diesel and I might buy one
Japan’s Nissan Motor Corp and France’s Renault will wait to see the market’s preference between hybrid and diesel cars before deciding which to pursue, the automakers’ chief Carlos Ghosn said Wednesday.
The head of the two auto giants said Renault and Nissan were working with both hybrid and diesel technology but will produce cars according to consumer demand. “When the market will shift, we will follow.”
Ghosn hailed the coming new clean diesel technology, saying it “is extremely performant, not only in terms of fuel efficiency but also in terms of emissions. Nissan said in April it would sell its first clean diesel cars in the United States within three years.
Phew! Don’t know if I can stand such a torrid pace. At least they admitted that they are followers not leaders. It’s good to be honest with yourself.
You know you are getting old when you can remember your parents owning a 4CV. It did not like cold weather and kept overheating when you used the heater.
There is really no big deal, with global cooling on the way, won’t we need more CO.
http://tinyurl.com/35x68k
Really, we don’t need more CO we just need more refineries. But the government hasn’t allowed one to be build in over 30 years in the US. That is why gas is so high.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19226739
Right on #2!
Those reports don’t capture the additional cost to consumers when you trade in your newer (2-3 yr old) and very servicable car in order to by a hybrid. How many thousands do you lose on trade value? Granted, not every hybrid buyer fits that senario but 100% of the 9 hybrid owners I personnaly know fit it.
Additionally, the IRS credit on hydrid vehicles is normally counted in the cost comparison. Since not all buyers would qualify for the credit it should not be included in the comparison.
The person quoted in the msnbc story says he feels good about the ecology and keeping pollution down. Considering the ecological cost of manufacturing and disposing of batteries, does he even know if he is helping the ecology? What a pawn. He should ask his local fire department how they feel about hybrid cars with these batteries. These are a very big problem for the ecology and a nightmare for emergency response when involved is an accident.
#2 – pipe dreams? And you’re wasting space over hydrogen tech. Come back in a couple decades when you know something about manufacturing and distribution reality.
News tip for you – Prius buyers are like most econo-buyers. They keep their vehicles longer than wingnuts who have to rush out for the latest Avalanche color change. Which is why Prius sales went up another 20% last y-o-y.
#3—Its not as bad as underwear but your other link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19226739) does not mention the US Gov outlawing refineries for the last 30 years.
You’d think repeal of such a law would make the news?
I see a trend!
I’d buy a Chevy Volt if they were selling them now. I heard GM just awarded some battery maker the contract for the Volt, so it may be out in 2009 or so.
#6 – you’re looking at diesel-hybrids every day in Manhattan. UPS is starting to follow FedEx’s lead. Of course, the Dodge Sprinters they’re using are “too difficult” for Daimler-Chrysler to build. FedEx takes ’em over to Eaton who installs the diesel-hybrid package.
FedEx has cut their operational costs in half since they made the switch. Do you think that might be a more accurate source than – “my neighbor says so-and-so”?
Eaton now offers a larger diesel-hybrid package for over-the-road freight haulers. You know, the guys being screwed by federal and state governments that tax diesel higher than gasoline.
I tried to get info on either of the pickup body diesel Sprinters from my local Dodge dealer – and got nothing but a blank stare in return. They get 24mpg around town and would do even better, of course, if an ordinary slob could buy the diesel-hybrid package from Dodge. Eaton can barely keep with fleet demand as it is.
I can’t pass up the chance to stick my finger in the eye of a True Believer. Hey, bobbo #7 – think you can come up with a link that details the name and number of any federal statute specifically outlawing refineries?
I don’t mean clean air standards that affect refineries and other polluters. I mean – what you said.
#9 – moss,
Interesting. I hadn’t heard about those trucks. I did know I was looking at natural gas hybrids every day in terms of many of our buses.
What’s all this “waiting to see what the market wants” nonsense? Yeah I’m sure that was the strategy behind the big SUV and MiniVan sales push. NOT. The automaker create the market demand they want. They just slickly advertise it as the next sexy thing, and everyone’s got to have it. Feature Hybrids in a few major motion pictures, they way they did the Mini Coopers in “The Italian Job” and their sales will take off.
BTW, I see Hybrids and clean Diesels as just an excuse to avoid making the Pluggable Electrics in quantity. If the auto industry can get the federal government to create tax incentives for buying gas guzzling Mini Vans, why not for the Electrics and Hybrids? Because they really don’t want these to out sell their fuel burners. Their business model depends largely on the after-market sales of parts and lubricants, for the gas and diesel engine vehicles.
10–I’ve got my safety glasses on! Read my post again. I’m saying the US Gov has NOT outlawed building refineries==post No3 said that and supported it with a link. The link doesn’t say that.
What do you think I truly believe other than what I have expressly said as such? All I’ve said is that I’m a First Amendment Advocate—and I say that every time I argue for an exception to it.
I “sound” anti-capitalist, but I’m only anti its excesses. And so forth. Unlike some folks here, I do very much being shown any error I make. Only makes me stronger. Poke away.
#2 – as a Prius owner, I can tell you – both right & wrong
Right – not safer than a Camry, though it’s marginal. Also, I always promote the Camry Hybrid – as an alternative to the V6 Camry (almost same price).
The Prius is a concept car, mass produced, with good qualities. That’s it’s easy to surpass in MPG and Safety, just shows that the automotive industry is mature.
However, how come not a single American built car surpasses the Prius on all counts? You have to look overseas at Volkswagen or Mercedes.
wrong Quoting bad science articles from industry controlled news reporters, like that god-awful Hummer-better-than-Prius.
From the article :
Is a hybrid car worth the gas savings?
Green cars cost more to buy, more to insure, and depreciate faster
Bad science, because they don’t compare apples with apples.
Not Worth gas savings
Answer: Comparing a Prius to a Civic, would take in excess of five years at current gas prices to break even.
Comparing the Prius to any V6 luxury sedan or SUV, ZERO DAYS.
Costs more
Answer: Costs more than a Civic, a little more than an Accord.
So YES, costlier than similar sized vehicle in the same category.
People buy hybrids instead of SUV’s.
More to insure
Answer: Not true, premiums are based on $ value of car, and FWIW, a small SUV that the base cost of the Prius is EQUAL, the insurance premiums are cheaper on the Prius, not higher.
Depreciate faster
Answer: Not true, just like the MINI, the resell value on the market is way higher than the red book / black book of automotive prices.
The higher the demand, the higher the price. Since Day 1 of the Prius.
Just like the Hyundai Accent – that five years ago – the “experts” said to stay away from, well five years later the car resells better than the crap-cars like the Pontiac Sunbird or the Chevrolet Cavalier.
If you travel over 3,000 miles per month for your job, then it makes sense to buy a fuel efficient car.
– Civic hybrid, cheaper than Prius, more-or-less same size
– Camry hybrid, more luxury, same price as Prius, uses more fuel
– Ford Escape hybrid, more luxury, higher price than Prius, uses more fuel
Or choose a much cheaper car, and trade monthly payments against huge gas bills.
If you travel less than 1,000 miles per month with a car, then perhaps you should look into public transit, and get rid of your car.
Use taxis, and car rentals. Will work out much cheaper per year.
Soda can hydrogen — what fun !!
http://www.instructables.com/id/ECB3EDDF2FRVK4R/
The original article about hydrogen from aluminum which could replace gasoline tanks in cars is here:
http://tinyurl.com/3x933o
[Just a second honey, I’ll fill up the tank with those empty 7-Up cans….]
#13 – sorry, dude – too much time spent with English Lit – regardless of cyberpunctuation.
16—Good. Now I can relax. My typing is not great and don’t think we can edit on this blog==so I’m glad to see I didn’t misread what I thought I wrote. I was an English Lit Major, and I am surprised everytime someone complains (mention is ok) about my punctuation, but yes==I do like equals signs. Is that YELLING for parity??
#14 – Mark Derail,
Would you mind posting your city and highway gas mileage and the type of driving you do? I always get higher than EPA with my ancient Camry and am hoping to do so with a Prius as well. I’m curious what kind of mileage I can expect on a 2-300 mile drive on the highway with cruise control on the whole time. I’m betting on 65 or so, even without the electric motor, just due to the smaller engine and lower wind resistance. Is this at all realistic? Have you done any long drives like that?
#6 Re: Satellite Dish Underwear
The tinyurl was as generated however you are correct, it list something about satellite dish underwear in the address when linked from this site. Copy the full link below and try it at tinyurl.com and see what you get.
The article is titled, “Read the sunspots” and deals with global cooling.
This is the site. (TinyUrl did not work for this site for some unknown reason – ed.)
Re #5 Moss
I didn’t say the Prius didn’t get good gas mileage. They are very very very unsafe. Care to elaborate on how I’m “wasting space on hydrogen tech”?
Fuel that can be generated directly from the sun using solar panels and water would be a better option. The cars do use the evil internal combustion engine but what emerges from the back end is water vapor.
http://www.bmweducation.co.uk/cleanEnergy/hydrogenpower.html
Re manufacturing and distribution reality perhaps you need a lesson in government/corporate subsidy.
It’s not a bad idea to see how tech plays out before you overspend on something. How many tech companies could have been saved if they had done that?
#19 – Stars & Bars,
Your national post article referenced a single non-peer-reviewed source 27 times. It then referenced some authors without referencing a particular publication. I found this by searching for those authors.
http://tinyurl.com/234xhg
The major quote to take away from within the 82 page peer-reviewed article is this:
Changes in the direct energy output of the sun (once known as the solar constant) are believed to be important in historical simulations of climate. Beyond changes in the suns direct energy output, the possibility that a significant part of the warming of the last century might be due to other changes in solar characteristics still cannot be completely discounted, although the scientific consensus remains that most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations. Possible changes in the suns influence on climate remains one of the most commonly raised objections to global warming attribution and projections. Under a previous contract, Harrison and Shine (1999) provided a review of the influence of solar changes on the Earths climate. This formed a useful basis for discussion in the IPCC Third Assessment Report. Since this report, further research has been carried out, including some important new results which cast doubt on the likelihood of appreciable century-scale variations in solar irradiance. Consequently there remains considerable uncertainty about the suns role.
Emphasis mine.
#21 Contempt for mankind Scott
Thank God you found something. Here is my something to counter your something.
Peer-reviewed global cooling
http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/01/peer-reviewed-global-cooling.html
Here is something else (careful, you will need an open mind).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRYyfXWyh1A
Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure.
Global warming is a scam to create a “Carbon Tax”.
#22 – good, your obvious inability to comprehend a body of peer-reviewed evidence about something as basic as global warming means I needn’t waste time trying to explain the problems inherent in establishing a completely new – and new kind of – fuel distribution system for a nation the size of the US. Plus, the problems of pressurization, etc..
Details no longer needed. You may return to hogwash.
#18, Scott, 2 of my neighbors have Priuses and I only know what they get for commuting mileage. Both are averaging over 50mpg with commutes that are about 5mpd of 45 mph + 20mpd of stop-and-start city driving.
Neither is someone I would consider car-savvy or skillful drivers. I know what you mean about always getting better than rated – even though I’ve generally cruised at higher speed than my peers. It’s that balloon under the right foot!
In fact, I got into a chat with a woman in a parking lot at a local shopping center – and I’d seen her on the road along the way and she did just about everything wrong. And she never gets worse than 46mpg.
I knew it. This has been a very cold June on average. We’re all going to freeze!!
These Global Warming Nazis will tell you it is wrong, blasphemous and criminal to question their “beliefs”.
Global Warmers & Global Coolers
Earth weather is chaotic. Adding energy to a chaotic system makes it more chaotic and unpredictable.
My choice of a hybrid has to do with pollution, not global warming. There are so many sources of global warming other than cars that dwarf the car CO2’s.
Plus taking into account particulates, also produced by cars, and overall cars don’t do much about weather.
Except in the North and South poles, where the particulates don’t travel as much, less ice, etc, rising sea water, more chaos.
That’s very real and undisputed evidence.
#18 Misanthropic Scott
Winter, sub-zero temps w/o a block heater (yet) at 15 min commute to work, average is 35MPG
(Compared to previous, Toyota Sienna V6, same thing, 15MPG)
At ten degrees and up, 45 MPG. Mini-van Sienna V6 20MPG)
My results are low, because 90% of my commute in a month (one gas tank per month) is 10 to 15 min ride.
However, when I hit the open road, like some weekends driving to Quebec city (250 miles back & forth) driving at 65-70 MPH (120KM/h) then my mileage goes up to 50 MPG.
Not being the leader in a convoy of cars on cruise control helps a lot too.
Again, I highly recommend the Camry V4 Hybrid over the Prius, if you want to blend into the crowd, better comfort, and get good mileage. I think it gets about 10% less than the Prius.
Just go test drive the different models, that’s free. I hated the Ford Escape hybrid, and the Camry not enough bells & whistles.
HONESTLY,—-help me out.
I was an early “believer” in human caused global warming because of the chemistry and history of sequestered CO2 being dumped in the atmosphere AND because of the non-scientific ideology driven nonsense response from the opposition.
Now, I still think humans are “adding to” global warming per the above but the following link (if valid?) has me totally on hold. Its point is that sunspots may be a totally controlling variable as the charts support.
Whats a good way to understand this info?
http://tinyurl.com/yt5g6h
#29 – you’re now experiencing the difference between science and faith.
If you want to cut pollution or go more efficient to save money – go for it! Good reasons. To do anything to stave off Global Warming (TM) is foolish because it’s a weak theory built on shaky and incomplete science. Yeah, they may yet be some catastrophe, but we don’t yet know that with any certainty at all, therefore there is no need to panic.
Global Warming (TM) is the latest lever in the attempt to bring about a new world order where the elites will tell the rest of us how to live and what to buy. It’s a PR campaign and as Stars and Bars mentions, a self-fulfilling prophesy. Look at the idiot at the American Meteorological Assn that stated she want members who question GW booted. Get rid of the peers who might present counter evidence and you get “consensus”. Bah.
30—I agree with most of your post except for this
“To do anything to stave off Global Warming ™ is foolish because it’s a weak theory built on shaky and incomplete science.” And that goes to my question.
Human caused global warming is not a weak theory==dumping co2 into the atmosphere will have a warming effect as we observe right in front of us. Science is almost always “incomplete.” Appeals to that unavoidable state of continous growth in knowledge is not insightful.
We only have science to form these ideas. I also agree that stopping co2 pollution stands on its own for the reasons you state.
I’m wondering if there is an error or corroboration for the chart and measurements showing that sunspots are THE CONTROLLING VARIABLE regarding global warming===http://tinyurl.com/yt5g6h
Seriously, like we care about what Renault is doing!?!?! Do they still make cars?!?!? I can’t think of any time in the last few years that I’ve even passed one on the highway.
#31 – I’m not being clear. I agree that mankind is contributing. The significance of the contribution is not clear at all as many new studies are beginning to show.
Personally, I think a lot of people stroke their egos by believing they’re important to the future of the planet and race and that contributes to the current frenzy. Everyone needs to calm down, take a deep breath and exhale some CO2.