Pakistan has condemned Britain’s award of a knighthood to author Salman Rushdie as an affront to Muslim sentiments, and a Cabinet minister said the honor provided a justification for suicide attacks.
“This is an occasion for the (world’s) 1.5 billion Muslims to look at the seriousness of this decision,” Mohammed Ijaz ul-Haq, religious affairs minister, said in parliament.
Now, here comes a great couple of sentences:
“The West is accusing Muslims of extremism and terrorism. If someone exploded a bomb on his body, he would be right to do so unless the British government apologizes and withdraws the ‘sir’ title,” ul-Haq said.
In the eastern city of Multan, hard-line Muslim students burned effigies of Queen Elizabeth II and Rushdie. About 100 students carrying banners condemning the author also chanted, “Kill him! Kill him!”
The only thing worse than theocracy – is fundamentalist theocracy.
Rushdie has written several more books since Satanic Verses was written, that have been very well recieved. I personally don’ty care for his writing, but a lot of folks I know in Europe seem to.
#32…..fahad…actually, your suggestion to read and study the Quran for factual conclusions is like someone telling me to read the Bible as accurate history…..impossibly bad idea.
#21…RBG….I no longer believe their are any real live **moderate** Muslims. So, I don’t care what any of them say anymore. To me, they are like Liberal Christian fundies, a contradiction in terms. A species that dosen’t exist. Over the last few years I have come to the conclusion that anyone who believes the Bible, the Quran or the Torah, as written can only be crazy.
Is Islam a religion of peace that has been hijacked by an extremism fringe, or do even the moderates seek one-world religion and the fundies are just tipping the hand????
Thats a question/issue based on group dynamics that cannot be answered===so now I will.
I believe the extreme defines the whole. Get yourself an extreme HINDU and what does he do?? —Drives a nail thru his scrotum and sits on a pole for 20 years. ie–a religion “truly” seeking inner knowledge.
or take an extreme BUDDHIST–and what does he do??? —Invites pigs, rats, and cows into his house to shit in his drinking water. —ie–a religion truly honoring ones forebearers.
Now lets take an extreme MUSLIM–and what does he do?? Oppress everyone and everything around him and bombing anyone who makes the slightest murmer of protest. — ie–a religion that is intolerant of individual freedom and any belief system other than its own.
If it does come down to us or them, — who’s it going to be????
If you want to get a feel for what extermist Buddhists read up on Japanese World World 2 history, or the history of Sri Lanka in recent years. However, for all this poo-pooing of religion, its worth noting that the histories of the USSR and China both clearly show how inhumane people can be without the use of religion.
Religion, language, nationalism, and family/clan have all been used as a pretext for war, but war is not caused by any of these, its caused by people. In Somalia people all speak the same language, follow the same religion, and live in the same country, yet they have waged civil war for years.
To blame religion for war is like blaming the bullets, rather than the person pulling for trigger, for killing.
[Duplicate post. – ed.]
36—yep, its not true in every case, so lets ignore it totally. Other things cause it too, so lets ignore it. People are doing it, so lets blame people.
Hogwash all! – – -or atleast being so “high minded” as to be irrelevant.
or, what you are saying is that “ideas” (like salvation?) have no merit and no effect on people. Most people do think ideas have impact.
You’re funny people. There’s nothing more delightful than reading a set of posts that says, “these guys sound violent! Let’s kill them all!
Go, lemmings, go!
Now 40, give 39 a break. I’ve watched CNN over the years now reporting on the SOUNDS of morters shelling Israel. Lots of big explosions and usually alot of people aren’t actually killed.
Its kinda like Hitler writing a book where he says he is going to kill all the Jews. We shouldn’t really complain until he actually does it. Freedom of speech kinda thing. President of Iran, mullahs across Arabia, saying the same thing, should be given the same leeway.
We don’t want to be uncivilzed now.
#30 – Lauren the Ghoti,
I recognize evil when I see it. It usually comes in one of the many flavors of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion. As some of the later posts point out, we don’t want to kill people to explain that killing people is wrong.
However, it really is time that we realize that we are not all entitled to believe whatever drivel we want, especially when much of it causes or increases the violence already inherent in our pathetic species.
It’s time that we get to start questioning beliefs. It’s time to stop indoctrinating children into violent mythologies. Children are not democrats, republicans, liberals or conservatives. They’re too young to have made up their minds on these subjects. The same is true of religion. Children are not Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Pastafarian, etc. They’re too young to make up their minds on these subjects.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to implement this. Parents will still be cramming this crap into their kids’ heads no matter what we do. So, anyone have a good idea on how to get rid of religion?
How about laws that state that you can’t buy technology in which you do not believe?
If you think that the universe proves the existence of a creator due to cause and effect, then you can’t buy a computer. Quantum mechanics denies cause and effect at the most fundamental level and makes the semiconductors in computers work. If you don’t believe in evolution, you can’t have this year’s flu shot. Last year’s should still be working just fine if the virus doesn’t evolve.
I’m sorry, you’re not entitled to that medication. See, it was tested on animals before humans. If you don’t believe in evolution, you must believe that those animal trials would be ineffective due to the lack of relation between humans and other species. So, no medicine for you. OK, maybe I shouldn’t have gone into life-sustaining technology after saying we shouldn’t kill religious people.
Anyone think this sort of thing can work? (I know I don’t. But, I do like the sound of it.)
37, 38 :- Its not being high minded, it merely pointing that killing all Muslims is not going to bring peace to our world, neither is banning all religion and turning to atheistic philosophies isn’t going to stop war.
43–Well, by definition, killing all Muslims would stop violence initiated by Muslims. And maybe a good war killing quite a few would make them pull their horns back in for another few centuries.
Nothing creates a permanent anything. All we can hope for is a little respite.
If “somehow” all religion could be banned ((never happen but lets say it could be substituted for a less lethal set of beliefs)) then we could all die for something that atleast made sense—like, “Hey!–thats MY water!”
The only thing worse than theocracy – is fundamentalist theocracy.
WRONG!
The only thing worse than theocracy – is fundamentalist Islamist theocracy.
But instead of killing Muslims, why not just take away all their wealth so they can’t afford to make bombs….
-Ben
(who is slowly working out how to play this game…..)
30. Lauren: “If you are so gullible, so naîve, that you cannot recognize evil, in the form of violent, superstitious, destructive idiots – then you deserve the world of primitive horror that they’re working to impose on you.”
As it happens, this is exactly what they think about you.
#15, gq,
I’m sorry but these people need to be wiped off the face of the planet.
I believe there are fundy atheists with the same views.
34. joshua: #21…RBG….I no longer believe their are any real live **moderate** Muslims.
Since I know many great Muslims personally, I can tell you their peaceful, tolerant intentions is fact, for what it’s worth to you. (BTW, my best friend is Jewish.)
32. fahad. “Not only that, the quran (orginal not translation of meaning)has NO errors or logical cavities. And you are more than welcomed to try.”
Ok. Surah 5:51: “O you who believe, take not Jews and Christians as friends. They are only friends to each other, and who befriends them becomes one of them.”
This doesn’t mention atheists. But I think we can easily imagine where they exist in the “friend” pecking order.
That verse is pretty straight forward. Now given that I have excellent Muslim friends and vice versa – a situation that is surely true world-wide; what does that say about your statement of “no errors.”
Let me provide a possible answer. Since the Qur’an must be infallible, a reconciling response can be provided. That’s the answer.
Tell me fahad, do you have any Christian friends?
RBG
fahad: Taqiyya and Kitman. Muslims believe they are blessed by God if they lie to non believers.
http://tinyurl.com/q9sn3
#47 – RBG
“30. Lauren: “If you are so gullible, so naîve, that you cannot recognize evil, in the form of violent, superstitious, destructive idiots – then you deserve the world of primitive horror that they’re working to impose on you.”
As it happens, this is exactly what they think about you.”
That’s nice. However, I sincerely hope that you are deliberately using that particular fallacy to deceive, and that you don’t actually believe it.
The response is, of course, “So what?” How does the fact that they have a corresponding mirror-image belief impact the truth or falsity of either belief? Answer: it doesn’t.
My statement is backed by demonstrable fact; theirs is not. Their mere possession of a false-to-fact belief imparts no validity to it and your implication that it does so is without merit. Just more amateur Logic-Free Reasoning®™.
No, as the great Graham Chapman said, “Not gude enough.”
So you think Muslims can’t demonstrate that the West is full of evil, in the form of violent, superstitious, destructive idiots?
Maybe they need to read DU more often.
RBG
50—Maybe you should read the original post again?
When did DU posters go out and burn anything in effigy and organize to call for the death of specific people because of imagined insults to their religion???
As Lauren is pointing out, you somewhat are confusing and equating cause with effect.
RBG, old boy, I’m fascinated by your ‘reasoning’ powers. Incredible, your ability to misconstrue.
Those violent, destructive, superstitious primitive peasants, far from objecting to Western violence, or destruction, or superstition, are objecting to the fact that we, rejecting Islam as we do, refuse to promote their beloved flavor of violent, destructive superstition.
Either you’re not too tightly wrapped, amigo, or you’re a troll.
#31, gq,
I’m tolerant, they are not.
Are you? As I pointed out in #29, you want to kill them, in fact your words are,
I’m sorry but these people need to be wiped off the face of the planet.
In other words, you are no better then they are. That does not make you tolerant. It makes you just as bad. The difference? You get to spout your hatred here in this forum and they get to do it on the streets where western journalists carry the message back to us. You just visualize what they have to dramatize.
The fundies are wrong, and it doesn’t matter if they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist, FSM, or whatever. Advocating or provoking violence against another is wrong, regardless of who started it.
#30, Lauren,
I see your type in those pictures. Blind hatred. Fear. Loathing for anyone different then you. You are just as sick as gq and all those Muslim extremists because you two are just as extreme.
53—so the appropriate response to someone who says and acts like they are goig to kill you, and do kill other people, is——-what?
51. Excuse me, last time I looked, DU was filled with non-stop excoriations and rantings about Rebublican or Democratic Nazi baby-killers or their moral equivalent; American government and military abuses and mindless scortched-earth destruction; religious wackofications and other outed idiots, usually called worse. Muslims don’t have to dig for evidence that America is the Great Satan. You’ve already done all the work for them. Unless you’re all just kidding. And though I was actually joking about they simply needing to read DU for such evidence… it’s true.
52. I see. So other than not following the right religion, Muslims think American behavior and society are just A-Ok.
They’re far from being worried about American evil and violence.
They’re far from being worried about American superstition (another word for someone else’s religion, btw.)
They’re far from being worried about American destruction around the globe.
Typical quote: Ayatollah Khomeini: “America is the number one enemy of the deprived and oppressed people of the world. There is no crime America will not commit in order to maintain its political, economic, cultural, and military domination of those parts of the world where it predominates.”
http://web.lemoyne.edu/~ruhlanjr/great%20satan.htm
You’d almost think maybe he objects to this.
I suspect you may even be familiar with similar quotes by other Mullahs. Maybe even recall Bin Laden having a few unkind words at our expense.
RBG
55—Ok, read the original post again!! BIG difference between robust debate and bluster with most posters doing so for fun, and people actually going out and engaging in violence.
You do understand the difference between speech and actions????? You do understand the difference between initiating violence and protecting yourself from violence????
Further, I’d have to check but how often do you post one thing and then claim just the opposite? “I was just joking…..but its true.” So you avoid responsibility for what you post, then try to take credit for it as valid analysis.” Which is it???
Even though you waffle and obfuscate all over the place, I do agree GOUSA is not completely innocent when it comes to agitating the rest of the world, but that doesn’t in the least justify Muslim extremism.
So your answer to Post #54 is what?
Anyone else notice that these **ignorant, superstitious, backwards Pakistani fundies have all of their signs written in English???
Apparently the western media isn’t all that Satanic when they want to promote their particular brand of hatred.
56. I assume your word “read” is meant to be pronounced “red”. I’m just defending a statement of fact challenged in 49.
You understand that you don’t need to accuse anyone in DU of violence, etc. to merely refer to the many examples as written-up in DU?
The humor results from the fact that I could have directly cited far bigger examples that exist in American society but instead chose to reference the simple on-point “bluster” written in DU posts – which was enough. Now do you want me to explain the “Viaduct” joke? http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12116
“So the appropriate response to someone who says and acts like they are going to kill you, and do kill other people, is——-what?”
Since you are now asking me:
Go get a bunch of your biggest, ugliest friends and get them first – but under United Nations Resolution 1214 (1998) of 8 December, of course.
RBG
This is what Rushdie writes for the Queen of Britain. “chamcha…..he found himself dreaming of the Queen, of making tender love to the Monarch. She was the body of Britain, the avatar of the State, and he had chosen her, joined with her; she was his Beloved, the moon of his delight.”. Chamcha refers to the character of Rushdiie himself. Amazing, he writes about conjoining with the Queen and the Queen awards him with Knighthood. Amazing!!!