You know the world’s gone wacky when Uncle Dave agrees with Pat Buchanan on something. But it sure is refreshing to hear a candidate for prez like Ron Paul say something that doesn’t reek of rhetoric and BS. Hearing the truth sometimes hurts and he’s hurting the other candidates. As the article points out, based on those who responded to Fox’s poll, he won the debate.
But Who Was Right – Rudy or Ron? – by Pat Buchanan
It was the decisive moment of the South Carolina debate.
Hearing Rep. Ron Paul recite the reasons for Arab and Islamic resentment of the United States, including 10 years of bombing and sanctions that brought death to thousands of Iraqis after the Gulf War, Rudy Giuliani broke format and exploded:
“That’s really an extraordinary statement, as someone who lived through the attack of 9/11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq. I don’t think I have ever heard that before, and I have heard some pretty absurd explanations for Sept. 11.
“I would ask the congressman to withdraw that comment and tell us that he didn’t really mean that.”
The applause for Rudy’s rebuke was thunderous – the soundbite of the night and best moment of Rudy’s campaign.
Of the 10 candidates on stage in South Carolina, Dr. Paul alone opposed the war. He alone voted against the war. Have not the last five years vindicated him, when two-thirds of the nation now agrees with him that the war was a mistake, and journalists and politicians left and right are babbling in confession, “If I had only known then what I know now …”
And then there’s this story from Michigan where the Repub headquarters practically shut down because of all the calls supporting Paul.
Lets see, a man with the guts to speak the truth, that our interventionists policies in the Middle East may have caused our present situation. And coming from a Republican! I like this guy. Gulianis response was lame. We cant keep repeating mistakes of the past, and this guy seems to get it.
LOL, this guy is pushing it…. Remember Ross Perot? Remember why he dropped out when he gained momentum? Someone kidnapped his kid. If this guy gains momentum I can guarantee that the same kind of thing happens to him. He threatens the corrupt established system.
Giulianni showed what a knee jerk, “I was in the World Trade Center” armpit he is. Ron Paul spoke of anti Arab / Mid-East actions by America that were either the reason or a major factor for the attacks. It is precisely Giuliani’s reaction of “Who us? We’re perfect” head in the sand that will invite the next attack.
The attacks were wrong and in no way could ever be justified. Denying WHY they took place is wrong as well.
Giuliani was a lousy Mayor who took credit for his predecessor’s initiatives. His actions probably caused the death of many in the WTC and severely hampered rescue reaction. I know nothing about Paul, but I do know he can’t be worse then Giuliani.
Altering our policies to prevent terrorism is just as bad as altering them in response to terrorism. Either way, we are allowing terrorists to dictate our policies.
Regardless of the CAUSE of 9/11, it is NEVER acceptable to resort to terrorism to further a cause. NEVER!
-Mike
Giuliani got too much rage and indignance. He let his emotions run his mouth. What Ron Paul said was the absolute truth. Ron Paul should get the GOP nomination… no doubt!!
2. I agree he needs to be careful, does that mean he should give up?
I admire the guy for voting his beliefs but he didn’t offer anything but a criticism of what we have done and that is no more a solution to the current situation then Rudy coming back with the knee jerk “I was there you weren’t” answer. The fact of the matter is that peace in the Middle East was pretty much doomed once Sadat and then Begin were assassinated. All we can do is try to keep the lid on one way or another and since those two died we have tried peace talks military action and economic sanctions and nothing really works because the people that live there don’t want peace.
Ron Paul is more proof that whackjobs aren’t solely Democratic.
8. He kicked everybodys butt in the poll, so what that tell you about your party Warmer?
#9 – Sure, but Dems watch Rep debates and vice versa. You have no idea of the actual leaning of the respondents in the polls. Remember that there are lies, damn lies and statistics.
#7 – you’re mostly right, except that peace in the Middle East has been doomed for at least 2500 years.
10. I would hope that FOR ONCE people will forget party affiliation and vote for the best man for the job. Its a lot to hope for but its all I got.
#7, You are making the same error all the neo-cons have made. (though I am not calling you a neo-con) They feel that just because some effort was made then everything should be rosy. When you are on the receiving end of Israeli aggression and brutality I guess you don’t see it that way though. When American policy denys your country the right to develop nuclear energy or even weapons, then it is your national pride that has been hurt.
Oh, and fuck that bullshit about Israel was attacked 60 years ago by …, or that Arabs did this, or other crap. This is today and almost all the current Palestinians weren’t even born yet. If you don’t understand the Palestine conflict then you don’t understand the hate that fueled the 9/11 attacks.
To you it was a criticism of Bush’s failed policies. Maybe it was really an opening the door to see the light. A problem can’t be fixed until you know what the problem is.
#2 – No more spy movies for you.
#7 – The first step is admitting you have a problem.
#10 – When the facts don’t support your opinion, attack the facts.
#11 – I think most people DO vote that way. The problem is that we’ve become essentially locked into the two party system which presents us with no real choice in candidates. I bet the vast majority of Dems or Reps don’t agree with every item in their party’s platform. Too frequently the choice is A) someone you dislike and B)someone who makes you retch.
14. If thats true, and Foxs’ polls arent deliberately skewed favoring Ron Paul (yeah, right), then the other candidates look like dead meat.
Ron Paul could have done a little better. Rudy twisted his words a little, but still Paul was saying that it was ten years of Iraq bombing that set off Bin Laden, when that’s not the case, at least up to the late nineties. Bin Laden was more upset by US forces on Saudi soil, which is related to Iraq. The bombings themselves were not an issue until Bin Laden allied himself with Iraq after a visit from an Iraqi delegation. Overall, I would say in the middle east, support for Israel is a major issue. Listening to Bin Laden, as Paul suggests, also means that they’re attacking because Spain is not a Muslim country, that Muslims lost the Battle of Andalusia, and the battle of Vienna. Around the world I think people are more upset with the US because of the bombings of Iraq and Kosovo and Yugoslavia, and just creating a sense of being involved where it shouldn’t be involved.
Of course, liberals on this board keep saying there was no connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, that everyone in the reality based community knows Iraq and Al-Qaeda were enemies who could never work together. Then these liberals cheer when Ron Paul says bombing of Iraq was the reason Al Qaeda acted against the US.
#17, MikeN
I don’t think YOU understand what Paul was saying. American policy in the mid-east got us the 9/11 tragedy. It is not just one item or act. It is a continuous policy that preceded Shrub by decades. And it always boils down to two things. Israel and the western Oil Companies and their national governments taking their oil.
FYI, because I understand your selective memory, Clinton had brought Israel and Palestine close. (former) Senator George Mitchell had worked out a peace plan and America would force Israel to follow. When Shrub came into office he immediately scuttled the Mitchell Plan and ostracized the Palestinians. Yup, that was really conducive to peace in the mid-east.
We do not excuse – but we must understand.
Pat Buchannan
#10, TGW, except that peace in the Middle East has been doomed for at least 2500 years.
When people fight for thousands of years over a piece of desert because of religious beliefs, there can be no peace. Reminds me of that old saw, “Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”
Ron Paul is a Libertarian, he even ran as a Libertarian candidate for President in 1988. I found him a couple of years ago while flipping channels and landed on CSPAN and was shocked to hear a Republican actually state the truth about Iraq. I love reading his speeches, I do not agree 100% with him, but he is a very different kind of statesman who I respect.
If he got the GOP nomination, I’d vote for him. If someone else gets the GOP nomination, I’d vote Democratic.
NO! He is a nut case
wants to legalize drugs ,wants to isolate the U.S. and blames the U.S. for terrorism
He is a total fruit cake
#21, no, he doesn’t blame the U.S. for terrorism… he says that U.S. foreign policy contributes to the atmosphere that has produced terrorism.
#22
Although I love R.Paul general attitude and VERY much his domestic agenda (taxes) I’d be hard to convince to vote for him due to this issue. Every politician MUST know to distinguish between the real reasons and excuses. American foreign policy is just an excuse (similarly like the assasination of the Prince Ferdinand was just an excuse for the first world war). Real reason for terrorism is the thirst for power and control in the Muslim community worldwide (similarly as the Austro/German expansionist needs were the real reason for the first world war). When middle-eastern countries start at least granting basic human rights as the gender equality, no slavery, freedom of all religions, and freedom of expression… than complain of USA policies. As of now, they are all in one gigantic gulag and just want to expand.
As far as “Muslim community worldwide” quote above, it is true as long as we don’t see massive anti-jihadists demonstrations (or actions) in the middle east and elsewhere. Haven’t seen one yet.
#21, We are spending billions on a “War on Drugs” that we can’t win. Many recent studies say marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Why not legalize, regulate, and tax marijuana like we do alcohol and tobacco, and save billions of dollars?
We are also spending billions on a “War on Terrorism” that is increasing terrorism not decreasing. The US can no longer afford to be the world police, especially when we have to use immoral practices such as torture to support our immoral and unpopular occupation of foreign countries. We need to reverse course and focus our efforts on our own country.
Imperialism causes terrorism, that lesson goes back to centuries of history. We are the imperialist country, and it is doing more harm than good.
Ron Paul is right on every point.
#21
So anyone who thinks that drugs should be legalized is a fruit cake? That makes for a lot of fruit cakes. Believe it or not, many non-fruit cakes believe that the government is not supposed to be a nanny. The government should not have the authority to make laws involving personal choice. If people know a drug is addictive and dangerous and take it anyway, that is their choice and we should fight to let people make that choice for themselves. Frankly, that Paul wants to legalize drugs should be seen as a positive.
In addition, Paul does not “blame the US for terrorism.” He simply stated that US foreign policy has gone a long way towards fostering an environment where terrorists are created. It is analogous to saying that living in filthy sewers will contribute to making people sick. Clearly, the bacteria or viruses are actually what make people sick but choosing to live in filth obviously increases the odds that you will catch something. Clean up the living conditions and you won’t cure the disease but you will reduce the odds that you catch it. Similarly, changing our foreign policy strategy won’t “stop terrorists “, but we might be able to reduce the odds of fostering terrorists.
Don’t argue with PM… He’s a real fruitcake. And now that he’s running for Congress, he’s dangerous.
It’s shocking to see a candidate break from the unified ranks of “they hate us for our freedom.” The line separating the position that our policies helped seed the discontent and “we deserved it” is nuanced enough that this guy could easily be ravaged in a handful of 30-second attack ads. Maybe Paul’s daringly thoughtful approach will awaken some, but his fellow presidential hopefuls will quickly eat him alive.
Mr Fusion your incessant need to think all things in the world is driven by US policy that is failed blinds you to the reality that the middle east has been a war zone since before Columbus discovered America. I don’t think we would have any chance of helping the peace process there if there is no person of courage from that area that will support peace. Until then we are just spitting in the ocean.
It is complete nonsense to say 9/11 happened because of our policies, that is more of the Amerocentric view of the world. 9/11 happened because Bin Laden is a nut job who thinks killing innocent people makes something other than death and destruction happen.
I have NEVER voted for a Democrat. I have always voted 100% Republican, but I was starting to lose hope until Ron Paul. This guy is for real and very Reaganesque. Rudy, debate Ron Paul one on one or shove it! I suspect you are to scared to get in the arena with a real conservative like Ron Paul.
#21 – William F. Buckley wants to legalize drugs as well. I guess he is a “nutcase” to you.