Bible drawn into Hong Kong sex publication row
A spokesperson for Hong Kong’s Television and Entertainment Licensing authority (TELA) said it had received 838 complaints about the Bible by noon on Wednesday.
The complaints follow the launch of an anonymous Web site — www.truthbible.net — which said the holy book “made one tremble” given its sexual and violent content, including rape and incest.
The Web site said the Bible’s sexual content “far exceeds” that of a recent sex column published in the Chinese University’s “Student Press” magazine, which had asked readers whether they’d ever fantasised about incest or bestiality.
That column was later deemed “indecent” by the Obscene Articles Tribunal, sparking a storm of debate about social morality and freedom of speech. Student editors of the journal defended it, saying open sexual debate was a basic right.
If the Bible is similarly classified as “indecent” by authorities, only those over 18 could buy the holy book and it would need to be sealed in a wrapper with a statutory warning notice.
TELA said it was still undecided on whether the Bible had violated Hong Kong’s obscene and indecent articles laws.
But a local protestant minister shrugged off this possibility.
“If there is rape mentioned in the Bible, it doesn’t mean it encourages those activities,” said Reverend Wu Chi-wai. “It’s just common sense … I don’t think that criticism will have strong support from the public,” he added.
The only thing “obscene” here is the Stone Age mentality that keeps human beings receptive to spooky ideology to explain reality.
On the other hand, in Brisbane, they can’t do a damn thing about a nude carwash: http://shrinkster.com/p2a
#1 – god,
Actually, though I agree with the sentiment, I think there are a lot of obscene things in the bible. Here are a few:
1) A man is righteous and worthy of salvation from the destruction of a city even after he offers to sell his two young virgin daughters into sexual slavery to all of the men of the city for a few minutes peace and quiet with his visitors. (And, these daughters later got their father drunk to have sex with him because they STILL loved him so much they didn’t want his seed to die. Yecch!!)
2) Sex is inherently sinful.
3) Some consensual sex is worse than other forms, despite the lack of victims.
4) The victim of a rape must be killed or married to her rapist depending on whether the rape took place in city limits.
5) The lord god is an angry even a jealous god.
6) Genocide, including killing of innocent children and animals is sometimes OK, see Joshua at Jericho.
7) There are many things for which an appropriate punishment is stoning to death. Questioning the religion of one’s parents is one such example.
8) Slavery is acceptable as long as the slave is of another nation.
9) Women are unclean during their periods.
10) Be fruitful and multiply. — This just might be the single most destructive obscenity in the bible. Overpopulation may yet cause our extinction. It has already caused tremendous suffering.
Should I go on? I think this short partial list should make my point.
#2 – TheGlobalWarmer,
Good find.
The operation offers a topless car wash for $50 and a nude car wash with x-rated show included, for $100.
I think I wouldn’t put the car through the wash topless though. If I had a convertible, I would definitely put the top up.
So, why exactly should anyone want to do a damn thing about this? Seems like a perfectly valid value add to a normal car wash. Seems their patrons agree, given the increase in price over a normal car wash.
Although the Bible may have a great deal of content that’s unsuitable for young children, the language style of the King James version should be sufficiently off-putting to dissuade impressionable young minds from stepping outside their weekly spoon-fed ration of scriptures. Thus, the brown paper wrapper becomes completely unnecessary.
Parents whose coffee table Bible is written in the thick Old English style can get full credit for keeping a family Bible, yet they can still rest secure in the knowledge that the children will never ask “Daddy, why don’t you have any concubines like Abraham?”
Family Bibles are meant to be dusted and displayed. I’m sure your minister will tell you everything you need to know concerning what it says.
It figures that this board would be in favor of such acts of ‘positive atheism’ . Maybe they’ll start whacking nuns like they do in Brazil, and you’ll get positively giddy.
Further to 6 of #3, the Bible does not merely say that genocide can be OK, but that it is Good, if approved by the Higher Power.
On those grounds alone ….
It is ironic that this happened in Hong Kong, which is part of China, which is where missionaries struggled against the banning of the Bible (presumably for different reasons). At least that’s what they told us in Treasure Chest comics in the ’60s. (Although it looks like today, the same people, Maryknoll, are teaching ESL, a study that Chinese are willing to pay good money for).
There is no way one can consider the Bible as obscene. Telling a story that includes rape, sex, etc is WAY DIFFERENT than telling a story that describes in detail those scenes. Get a grip people.
#8 rectagon, point taken. Then again, maybe Hong Kong’s legal definition of obscenity is slightly different from our own. For instance, Encarta’s secondary definition for obscene is “disgusting and morally offensive, especially because of showing total disregard for other people.”
By that standard, a great many of the Bible’s stories are obscene, even without giving the lascivious detail that would be required to meet America’s legal definition for obscenity. Unfortunately, that broad definition would also leave a great deal of room for extensive censorship. I strongly support letting the disgusting and immoral stories of the Bible remain uncensored.
#5 – Gary Marks,
I know I must be misinterpreting your words. However, to me they read as follows:
Don’t think. Don’t even read the Bible for yourself and make up your own mind. Just listen to your minister to get everything you need to know. Ignorance is bliss.
Please tell me this is a misinterpretation of your post and if so, exactly how.
#6 – Billy Bob,
I’m not quite sure what you mean by “positive atheism”. I prefer antitheism. I am indeed against theism and indeed all belief in the supernatural. Especially in the case of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion (deliberately singular) it has had a huge deleterious effect on humanity, as evidenced by its huge number of deleted humans.
#8 – rectagon,
I think they are using the same standards applied to a non-religious writing that had already been termed obscene. I do not agree with censorship. However, if it is applied, it should be applied fairly and equally.
I doubt if anyone posting on this topic would have declared the sex column published in the Chinese University’s “Student Press” magazine to be obscene. However, the same standards should apply to all writings or to none.
#10 Misanthropic Scott says, “Please tell me this is a misinterpretation of your post and if so, exactly how.”
LOL — sometimes my approach to ironic sarcasm is simply to make my position so completely ludicrous that no other hints at the tone are required. You certainly picked up on how silly the position was, yet somehow missed the underlying intention. You leave me wondering how many others have somehow failed to give me credit for the critical-thinking viewpoint, even while seeing the pure folly of a stated position.
Cheers 😉
Addendum to my #11 comment:
I think I’ve figured out why ludicrous positions intended as ironic can be easily misconstrued as straightforward. It’s because on the subject of religion, you can’t possibly out-ludicrous the “true believers” who are being entirely sincere. That in itself is pretty funny!
Gary Marks,
Thanks for the update. You were scaring me a bit there, but only a bit. The real scare comes from people that also don’t think and just accept the Bible as completely and literally true, including all of its self-contradictions. It must take a lot of energy to believe the Bible wholeheartedly in that way and be able to compartmentalize each “fact” of the Bible so that contradictory facts are all individually quarantined from each other.
Was it Bill Murray in “Ghostbusters” who said (loosely quoted), “We’re talkin’ Old Testament, here — real wrath of God stuff!” ??
I can’t define obscenity, but I know it when I see it. Genocide, slavery, stoning etc. might qualify.
If you read the book Misquoting Jesus, you will learn that the Bible has been pretty much a work of fiction. In fact, when the only way to copy a Bible was to handwrite it, most versions of the Bible were markedly different. Some stories in the Bible were definitely added in centuries later after the fact.
When Christians preach the message of the Bible, judge not lest ye be judged or love thy neighbor, I don’t think there is any controversy. The problem comes when pseudoChristians have substituted belief in the Bible for true Christian behavior.
Just recently, the VA tech nut job sighted Jesus before going off and shooting people. This was far from the only time killing has taken place in the name of Jesus. What is so bothersome is the last person on earth who would kill another was Jesus.
One of the ten commandments is thou shalt not covet. The full commandment then goes on to list many items one should not covet including the slave of a neighbor. Still, pseudoChristians want to put the 10 commandments in schools. I think we all would agree that slave coveting is a real problem these days.
So the real answer to the Hong Kong controversy is to admit that while the messages and lessons of the Bible are timeless, the content is not. Another rewrite of the Bible is badly needed, but it won’t happen. Power hungry pseudoChristians think the Bible is the word of God and perfect in its current form despite the ample evidence to the contrary.
#14 – Bubba Ray,
I think that was from Raiders of the Lost Ark, Harrison Ford. I’m not positive though. I couldn’t find it easily on IMDB.
#15 – jz,
For the ten commandments, we’re talking old testament. Actually, as determined from the dead sea scrolls, written roughly 200BC, the copying technique for the Torah appears to have been pretty good for the last 2200 years, far fewer typos (writos?) than you’d expect. Of course, that still puts the dead sea scrolls at hundreds of years after the events of the old testament, so doesn’t really add a lot of validity. I’m just nitpicking and being anal-retentive here.
The issue with the new testament is that it wasn’t written until long after the supposed death of Jesus. Further, there is plenty of written history from the era of Jesus’ supposed life and no written account of the man or of any particularly controversial crucifixion from that time. So, it’s merely hearsay that he lived at all, let alone actually said any of the things he is supposed to have said. Of course, my saying so is heresy added to the aforementioned hearsay.
#16, Scott, I found it. From Ghostbusters:
Dr. Peter Venkman:
This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions!
Mayor:
What do you mean “biblical”?
Dr. Raymond Stantz:
What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor. Real wrath of God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler:
Forty years of darkness, earthquakes, and volcanos!
Winston Zeddemore:
The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman:
Human sacrifices, dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
[end quotes]
Now that’s Old Testament!!
BubbaRay,
Interesting. I didn’t remember that at all. Unrelated to this post, for real religious humor, I love this bit from George Carlin:
In the Bullshit Department, a businessman can’t hold a candle to a clergyman. ‘Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!
#8 – Bull
I think the bible is obscene. It isn’t about how graphic the detail is, it’s about the message… And the message of the Bible is that a twisted megalomaniac in the sky gave you freewill bit is still gonna kill you and force you to burn for eternity if you aren’t in lockstep with some arbitrarily stupid rules.
It’s made even more obscene when you consider that its all fiction but the story allows an elite class of power hungry control freaks rule over the masses with fear, and drive division between people leading to eventual death and chaos.
Yes. The Bible is pretty muther fucking obscene.
18, Scott, But [God] loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money!
And now Jerry Falwell is dead. Oh, what will God do, what will He do now?? I fear some of that Old Testament stuff is just around the corner.
#12 – BINGO!
#16 #14 – Bubba Ray,
I think that was from Raiders of the Lost Ark, Harrison Ford. I’m not positive though. I couldn’t find it easily on IMDB.
That’s because Bubba is right. It’s from Ivan Reitman’s** Ghostbusters.
**(Notice how I think that naming the director actually lends credibility to my claim… I’m right, but not because I’m nerdy enough to know the directors of movies)
#17 – Okay… You didn’t need me… But I’d rather make my post longer than to trim it 🙂
Jerry Fallwell dies and the next day the Bible goes wild.
#21, OFTLO, thanks, I’d forgotten the director and he did a great job.
It’s been 24 hours now since Jerry’s death, and no one has made the pun??
Fal (Fall) Well. Old Testament indeed!!
With this crowd, I can’t believe it. Spider Robinson is laughing out loud.
H. Hopper, give me the King Kahuna Moron Award for today!!
How come no one has released an illustrated bible that illustrates the more “colorful” sections of the bible
Sorry BubbaRay, the Ultimate King Kahuna Moron Award goes to Bllly Bob today.
#8,
Telling a story that includes rape, sex, etc is WAY DIFFERENT than telling a story that describes in detail those scenes. Get a grip people.
Comment by rectagon — 5/17/2007 @ 7:59 am
One may describe an atrocious, vicious, violent act and not be obscene. Yet when that same vile act is held up as good, then it has just crossed the line into obscene. To tell the world that “they had it coming” is definitely obscene.
Most obscenities appeal to sick minds. Enjoy your obscene book.
Darnit , Hop — my money was on myself or —
Comment by rectagon — 5/17/2007 @ 7:59 am
Guess I’ll have to do better to earn the UUKKMA.
For people around the world who are interested in this news, you may wish to know that Hong Kong’s Obscene Articles Tribunal is capable of making crazy rulings. In 1995, it actually classified a picture showing Michelangelo’s statue of David as indecent (which was only overturned on appeal).
The present controversy sparked off when some hypocrite newspapers (themselves publishing erotic contents daily) and conservative moralistic organizations (some related to the fundamentalist church) condemned the university’s student publication for the sex contents, intensified by the government tribunal’s classification of it as indecent, which will bring criminal consequence to the student editors. This aroused the anger of a sizable public and in particular some activists on the internet who initiated this campaign. Having read the ‘offensive’ contents of both, I think it is fair to say that some descriptions in the bible are indeed more explicit than those in the student publication.
The number of complaints against the bible has now exceeded 2,000 (while the student press has received about 200 complaints), but the TELA has declined to refer the bible to the tribunal for classification. The outcome may seem sensible but again it provokes criticisms of double standard. People are now lodging complains to the Ombudsman against the TELA’s inconsistent decisions.