A Vatican committee that spent years examining the medieval concept published a much-anticipated report Friday, concluding that unbaptized babies who die may go to heaven.
That could reverse centuries of Roman Catholic traditional belief that the souls of unbaptized babies are condemned to eternity in limbo, a place that is neither heaven nor hell. Limbo is not unpleasant, but it is not a seat alongside God.
It ain’t politically correct anymore – even among the stalwarts of Rome.
In the 5th century, St. Augustine declared that all unbaptized babies went to hell upon death. By the Middle Ages, the idea was softened to suggest a less severe fate, limbo.
In his Divine Comedy, Dante characterized limbo as the first circle of hell and populated it with the great thinkers of ancient Greece and Rome, as well as leading Islamic philosophers.
Plus – it’s a good chance to take a shot at a competing wing of fundamentalist True Believers.
Father Thomas Rausch, a theologian at Loyola Marymount University, said the document “puts the Catholic Church in a different position than Protestant evangelicals, who teach if you do not have a conscious explicit relationship with Christ — born again — you cannot be saved.”
It would all be laughable except for the numbers whose brains haven’t made it past the 5th Century.
There is no need for babies to be baptized! Baptism is obedience to the gospel teaching in the New Testament. Babies can’t obey the gospel? Once one is of accountable age and realizes they are in sin, they now, need to obey and be baptized for the remission of their sin, just as the first 3000 people did in Acts 2:41.
I don’t care what the Pope says as he is just a man like me. Everyone is accountable for themselves. You can either choose to obey the New Testament, or not. God allows you to choose.
Ah how nice it is to be able to rewrite your religion on a whim to fit the current political climate. More proof that it is all just made-up B.S. designed to give certain people power over others. Might as well worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster instead; as far as I know, His noodly belief system has remained pretty consistent so far!
If I understand the FSM, correctly – he only speaks to me once an alternate Leap Year – each acolyte has the right to one sect and all funds accrued therein.
Say Amen!
I think many people are hesitant to baptize their babies because they’re afraid it will wash away that wonderful new-baby smell. Tests have shown, however, that new-baby smell is more than skin deep, and only fades with the passage of time.
Be not afraid to baptize thy baby.
All hail the FSM!!!!
I, uh, also allow you to choose. As if anyone here really shives a git!
Wow, let’s all get our child rearing advice from a sexual deviant (sex is normal, not having it is a form of deviance) who (allegedly) doesn’t have sex and will never have a baby. Great idea! Where can I sign up?
Oh, and doesn’t anyone have an issue with a god that creates sexually reproducing species and then tells them A) sex is sinful and B) be fruitful and multiply?
When are we going to give up on mythology??!!?
#7 you have obviously given up, so what your point? I guess you are proselytizing us your believe system.
I am not sure what’s more believable the church of Misanthropic Scott or FSM? Seems like more people believe in the church of FSM.
Religion is stupid, and those that believe in that hog-wash are dim-witted.
On the other hand, fake religions that mock contemporary religious are awesome. All Hail the FSM!
#8 – noname,
Not given up. I never was a Catholic. I’m just proselytizing my lack of belief system. Isn’t proselytizing our opinions what we’re all doing on a blog site?
Gee, why all the hate towards people of faith? I have a god and accept him as my savior. But I’m also not trying to ram him or so called “Christian values” down anyones throat. Man. Post one article about religion and see all the hateful backlash come out. Most people have an easier time believing in an operating system than they do a religion. Thats why they call it “faith” believing in something that is intangible. Cmon guys, I’ll buy the first round 🙂
Oh, one more thing, religion, in all its forms will be on this earth as long as there is a living person drawing a breath. So, hate away!
Oh, one more thing, religion, in all its forms will be on this earth as long as there is a living person drawing a breath. So, hate away! I don’t have any problem with non believers, heck the lines should be shorter for the rides upstairs!
This is the one that got me in so much trouble with the nuns, I never could buy the idea of Limbo and was a constant thorn in the side of all teachers who brought it up. I do have good memories mostly of Catholic schools, and I did get a great education from them. But the religion thing didn’t stick, because I could not reconcile or come to terms with the dogma. We had many non Catholics in my school including Jews and atheists and an orphanage of the unwanted, it was an interesting mix. I feel privileged to having been a part of it.
@7- Actually it says sex outside of marrige is sinful
@11 & 12- The only reason religion will stay around is because people are too scared to bleive in nothing, ie. that there is nothing after you do, you have no awareness and no sense of having awareness, most people cant even handle it. some try to imagine it but it is impossible because you are imagining from a point of view, of wich there would be none
#14 LordZer
“The only reason religion will stay around is because people are too scared to bleive in nothing”
Hmm… Either your statement is wrong or #10 Misanthropic Scott does have a believe system, he just dosn’t realize it.
“I’m just proselytizing my lack of belief system.”
“Gee, why all the hate towards people of faith?”
Um, because religion is the cause of about 75% of the worlds problems and intelligent people are getting tired of the stupid and gullible followers of it.
Anyone who studies the major religions (damn, especially Catholicism) and cannot see the sheer stupidity and lack of logic of it all is basically a moron.
Lets say some religion is in reality just as their converts believe it to be.
Then I ask–what tyrant is your God that he won’t simply leave us alone?
There are more reasons not to believe in God than simply that he doesn’t exist. //// Bobbo.
What is this all this nonsense? Reminds me of an old hymn….
Oh Blinding Light,
Oh Light That Blinds.
I Cannot See,
Look Out For Me.
Which church is this from? (First person who correctly answers gets a healthy strawberry daiquiri [with or without umbrella], or even a Guinness.)
#16 – noname,
That’s an interesting tactic you’ve got there. Take two statements you can’t reconcile in your mind from two different posters, splat them together, use against both of us. Neat trick.
Here’s a difficult concept for you to grasp. Not all people of faith agree on everything. Not all people of no faith agree on everything. In short, “we’re all individuals,” except/especially Dennis for the Monty Python fans among us.
Actually, if you want to know a bit more about my actual belief system, atheism, as a non-belief does not express it. But, antitheism expresses it nicely. I believe religion, especially the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion (deliberately singular), has had a huge deleterious effect on humanity, as evidenced by the huge number of deleted humans it has directly caused.
So, my non-belief may be expressed as, “I don’t believe in anything supernatural.”
My belief may be expressed as, “I believe religion is evil, by design and by its implicit purpose.”
#20 good luck with that believe system.
#21 – noname,
Thanks. Good luck with your spelling and grammar checker.
If you can fool some of the people some of the time, … . Yup, all you need to do is keep changing the tune and everyone will have a chance to dance.
There are few things I “believe” in. My wife, children, family, country, and Pink Floyd are just some of them. I believe in them because they make all of us strong. I can reach out and touch my family, country and Pink Floyd CDs. Each of them is real.
I can’t believe in organized religion. It is just a con game to keep certain persons in a power mode. There is nothing there except hallucinations, smoke, mirrors, and promises. It is all just superstition based upon peoples gullibility.
when i die.. can i please go to that first circle of hell? “…populated it with the great thinkers of ancient Greece and Rome, as well as leading Islamic philosophers.” this must be an awesome place.
Like it or not, non-believers of any faith are way outside the norm. Most people have a belief in a higher power. What makes you god haters so miserable anyway? Is it that you can’t blame anyone else for your failures but yourselves? I guess a higher power would be a convenient target. Heck, you sling arrows at religion even when you think any person is a bozo for professing a faith. And another thing, as a group religious people have more power, money and influence than religion haters. So, if you god hating individuals don’t want a force babtism by a power hose during your next riot over some stupid dubious outrage caused by religion. Keep it to yourselves commie pinkos (joke).
Homer, you sling the phrase “god hater” around as if you really believe such people exist. I think I can safely assure you that those of us who thoroughly disrespect the demon you refer to as “God” do not find your particular god-story to be credible.
However, as you say, religious people have more power, money and influence than religion haters, and therefore your mythology and superstition can’t help but affect us, usually in the negative. Some people are in positions that simply wouldn’t allow them to admit to any non-belief in Christianity and still be treated fairly, so they sometimes just pretend.
Forgive me for cutting my rant a bit short, but I have to get back to baptizing my baby 😉
#25 – Homer,
I don’t hate god. I can’t hate that which I do not believe. I do hate religion due to the number of deaths it has caused and continues to cause. In fact Homer, your threat of using a fire hose on those of us that do not share your belief makes my point a lot better than it makes yours.
Oh, and as for statistics on the number of people who believe in a sky spirit versus those who do not, to say it a bit crudely:
Eat shit. A billion flies can’t all be wrong.
23. I cant agree with you on everything but how can you not like a Pink Floyd fan?
I always thought the the catholic teachings were the words of God. So I guess God changed his mind on Limbo and such eh? Or are the catholic teachings just the words of a bunch of old guys who like the power of controlling the masses?
19, Comment by BubbaRay — 4/22/2007 @ 12:05 am
OK, last post on this topic, no takers on my question above, from the Firesign Theatre, it’s the —
Church of the Presumptuous Assumption of the … Blinding Light!!
‘Oh Light That Blinds” … Sounds like organized religion to me.