This case is proof either gun control is always doomed to failure or it needs to be tougher. The one thing you can say is the availability of guns made it easy for this nutjob to do what he wanted when he wanted to. Hoooray for the Second Amendment! And for those who will invariably think my posting this indicates Uncle Dave is in favor of gun control, you would be wrong, but not for the reason you’d think.
How sorry are we for the Blacksburg killings?
A news article in the April 18 Wall Street Journal states that one reason the Blacksburg killings are prompting few cries for gun control is that both pistols recovered in the Virginia Tech shootings—a Glock 9 mm and a Walther P22—were purchased legally, according to a gun trace by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
In the past, opponents of gun control have made the precise opposite argument. Appearing on CNBC’s Rivera Live after Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris slaughtered 12 fellow students and one teacher at Columbine High School, Ann Coulter pooh-poohed Geraldo Rivera’s call for beefed-up background checks by saying, “What difference would that have made? They … purchased the guns illegally.”
A psychopathic mass-murderer buys a gun legally. That’s an argument against gun control. A psychopathic mass-murderer buys a gun illegally. That’s an argument against gun control, too. Everything is an argument against gun control.
There are people in this country today who, one day in the future, will be gunned down by psychopaths like Cho Seung-Hui. Future presidents will be assassinated, if the past is any guide, and probably the odd pop star, too. We could spare these lives—some of them, at least—by making it difficult or impossible to acquire a handgun in the United States. But we choose not to. Tough luck, whoever you are.
In searching for a photo, I stumbled on this odd article. Fallout from the murders is ranging far and wide.
Do Iraqis equate President Bush to Cho Seung-Hui?
As President Bush spoke to those gathered at Blacksburgh, Virginia after the loss of 33 lives including the life of Cho Seung-Hui’s, he made these striking remarks, “Yesterday began like any other day. Students woke up, and they grabbed their backpacks and they headed for class. And soon the day took a dark turn, with students and faculty barricading themselves in classrooms and dormitories — confused, terrified, and deeply worried. By the end of the morning, it was the worst day of violence on a college campus in American history — and for many of you here today, it was the worst day of your lives.”
If I could have the president’s ear just for one second, I would say that is the world you created for the Iraqi people. They too have been terrified and yet no one sees them as being victims of terror.
#62,
thanks for clearing that up.
My US Canada example. Lets say you make 100k a year, I make 50k a year. We can say you make twice as much as me. When Bill Gates walks into the room with us, for all intents and purposes, you and I make the same amount.
I blame video games…
(I’m not going to notice how conveniently the needed incident materializes so soon after the necessary votes are available.)
Some time in the very near future, the residents of the US will make the final transition from citizens to subjects via the nutralization of the 2nd amendment. At that point, the whole bill of rights will be a dead letter. The people will be surprised to discover that the violent criminals are no more deprived of guns than they are of drugs. Why this will surprise them will remain a mystery. In due course they will be as sheep among wolves. Not only will violent and property crimes increase but taxation and regulation will expand unchecked. A “War on Crime” will ensue and after 5 decades of “warrentless no-knock” searches (basically kicking the door down at midnight) and the sumary execution of anyone who can’t prove they aren’t “up to something”, the Emperor will once again permit those who can afford steak to own steak knives.
gunowners should be required to undergo intense psychological testing before they get their guns
The second amendment was written when the primary weapon on the market was a musket. You shoot, you reload. They had no conception of the kind of mass killing power we can pack into a single weapon today.
We should apply the law accordingly. That means no functional automatic weapons and no high capacity magazines.
This isn’t what people want to hear but perhaps they should consider regulating the types of guns available legally. Seriously, why are so many legal guns designed to help the nut jobs MAXIMIZE their kill counts?
There are still school shootings in Canada. People still have access to guns but in assault rifles and automatic weapons are a little tougher to come by. The Dawson College shooting in Montreal left the killer and an innocent young woman dead with 19 others injured. If he owned high-powered assault weapons, the death toll would have arguably been higher.
It’s true that gun control won’t stop crime, but it’s all too easy for a frustrated person to snap and go on a shooting rampage. The more shots they fire, the more people they hit because they don’t have to constantly stop to reload. Yet in the States, those types of guns are widely available and legal to buy.
I don’t think that arming more people is the answer. I live in “Stabmonton.” Here mostly drug dealers carry guns, everyone else seems to carries knives. Anyone can get stabbed or beaten for making eye contact with the wrong person. I can’t imagine if every tough guy with something to prove were allowed to carry a gun. Police and the law-abiding, gun-toting citizens are supposed to protect us all from them? That wouldn’t make me feel safer.
I apologize for any insensitivity. I do feel badly for those affected by such tragedy.
I’m not going through all those gun,gun,gun,gun comments — sheesh, you sheeple always say the same crap.
If somebody didn’t mention it, there’s still the issue of this kid being picked on in school…
Same reason the Columbine kids gave.
Oh yeah, you can argue it away with the whole, “Oh, everybody gets picked on in school.” — sure, but as the population continues to grow, the statistical chances of one of the ‘picked on’ going really nuts will decrease.
You pick on some nerds, you get away with it. Some nerds, otoh, will kick your ass because they’ve taken martial arts or other reasons they can whoop (mine was a brother 4 years older who I was used to fighting, kids my age didn’t quite match up)…
However, there’s that 1 in 1,000,000 nerd that gets picked on repeatedly and bottles it up, until the pressure has to be released — and you get Virginia Tech or Columbine.
I think both instances, and the ensuing pointless solution-free discussion avoiding who else was responsible — all makes for good social commentary.
… err, doh — chances this will happen should increase as time goes by…
#68,
the first ammendment was written during a time when people used quill pens and Gutenburg printing presses. Freedom of the press shall only aplly to those devices. The founding fathers has no idea that radio, television and the internet would be designed, allowing someone to “yell fire to 300 million people in a theater” all at the same time.
70 – Duckshoot – I’ve read that another common factor in Columbine and Verginia Tech is that the shooters were on antidepressants. If so, that’s probably related to their being picked on, and the drugs might have contributed to bottling up frustrations until the vessel blew.
I’ll say again, I’m glad my trained Marine son was armed in Seattle when a confrontation started to build. No one got shot, the situation defused itself, someone saw the situation and when 911 arrived the bad guys were dispersing. Maybe most gun tales are myths, but that one at least did happen.
Limiting access to mass killing devices makes sense. Requiring training makes sense. Christ, there has got to be a balance point somewhere and this isn’t it: http://tinyurl.com/3yfjas
Idiots abound!
I know of two incidences in my community where an armed citizen (in both cases, they were off-duty police officers in street clothing) stopped a nutcase on a killing spree. The first was on the campus of Weber State College, where a gunman pulled a pistol at an ombudsman meeting and opened fire. He killed two counselors before being shot and killed by an off-duty officer attending the same meeting.
The second case was just a few months ago at a Salt Lake City mall. Again, it was an off-duty officer who was shopping with his wife that caused the gunman (armed with a shotgun and a pistol) to hole up inside a store – he had already killed the occupants — until the police could arrive.
And yes, the off-duty officer at the mall was worried he would be mistaken as the attacker, so he made damn sure he didn’t make any threatening moves when the police arrived. Furthermore, his wife used her cell phone to call 911 and alert the Salt Lake City police to her husband’s armed presence.
Trained armned citizens can protect themselves and others. Proven.
#73 – That video was a classic. LMFAO!!!!!
Awake, do you have evidence to back up your claim that gun owners are not liable for product malfunction? I suppose it’s possible, but I read that the protections were from lawsuits for gun deaths, which is the result of the product working properly.
You know a famous comedian once said “Don’t go to parties with metal detectors, sure you may feel safe inside, but everyone outside knows that you don’t have a gun.”
In many ways the same could said about the VT campus, it was a “Gun Free Zone”, of course the only people who obey that are people who obey the law, the criminal in this case, knows that he can kill with virtual immunity until the local police can get their.
I find it amazing that gun control nuts are so willing to put big signs outside of schools that say “Gun Free Zone”, yet will never do the same thing in front of their house.
I guess its typical neo-liberalism, do as I say, not as I do thinking.
#69
> The Dawson College shooting in Montreal left the killer and
> an innocent young woman dead with 19 others injured. If he
> owned high-powered assault weapons, the death toll would
> have arguably been higher.
Exactly, how would it have been different than say a ordinary semi-automatic rifle? “Assault rifle” is a bullshit term made up by the media. There is absolutely no mechanical difference between an “assault rifle” and a regular rifle. The differences have to do with aspects that have nothing to do with its killing power: non-rusting materials, designs to reduce jamming, light weight, oh and they “look” scarier. Two guns that fire a 223 or 7.62 NATO will do the same damage with the same bullet load.
> I can’t imagine if every tough guy with
> something to prove were allowed to carry a gun.
Given your description, it sounds like they already do.
#70, finally a voice of sanity.
As an Aspergers, we are prime targets for bullies and sexual predators in school. We are harmless and ‘strange’. We don’t join gangs. We weren’t taught to stand up for ourselves.
The best way to deal with bullies is to make a plausible threat that if you bully me, I will hurt you. You don’t have to physically incapacitate a bully to stop them. They only do it when it is safe for them.
In Alaska, where everyone carries a big handgun for polar bears, incidents of bullying and crime are very low. It is unsafe for them. Deterence works.
Antidepressants are just a symptom of depression from mental stress. Stuffed anger can be one of these . Antidepressants can give us enough mental energy to express that stuffed anger in inappropriate ways. Again, it is not the med but the bully.
Money is awarded to our schools based upon the student count, so they are motivated to turn a blind eye to bullies, so long as they don’t physically hurt their prey too badly. And they often suspend the prey along with the bully, assuming it takes two to have a fight.
Maybe Cho’s family should do a mental duress lawsuit against all those who harrassed him.
#64 – If Bill gates walks into the room with us, there is a real possibility that we are about to make a lot more money than we did when we were just standing there before.
But I just don’t buy the logic. A household income of 100K has far more buying power and makes far fewer sacrifices than a 50K income. I say the fact stands that Canada is far safer than the US.
But since you bring it up, sort of, I believe a comparison of economics is relevant. I think the homicide rate is going to be higher where poverty rates are also higher.
But none of this discussion in this thread has much of anything to do with the recent shooting because this sort of crime is rare and does not fit normal homocides.
•Children! Children! Children! Yes, I know many of you gun infatuees are over 40, but sometimes you seem not to have the analytical ability of ten-year-olds. Most of the information I offered is direct from the Department of Justice statistics and major studies on the effects of guns on society. It is not controversial. The problem is that gun nuts have their own alternative reality that will not allow facts in. They myths simply are not true. People involved in shootings usually know each other. There are few factual accounts of concealed carry weapon holders stopping crimes. A weapon is more likely to be stolen from a home than used against an intruder. And, so on. It ain’t pretty, but it is reality.
•BTW, I guessed the autism link before the aunt’s interview. The tendency to be utterly dismissive of other people Cho exhibited is typical of worst case Asperger’s. Based on my experience, I wonder if narcissism is too. Contrary to what Timbo said, I’ve seen people with Asperger’s often be instigators. Since they have no feelings for other people there is no conscience to get in the way.
•I doubt Cho was on antidepressants because I don’t think he ever followed up on the order to seek counseling. And, no one bothered to check. That is where I see the the major negligence of the university. Viriginia Tech could have made getting counseling a condition of Cho remaining enrolled in school.
•Smith, the violence occurred before the off duty, but armed policemen in your tale became involved. So, obviously, they did not prevent injuries and deaths from occurring.
Note to For the Love Of:
I am certain Lauren is what he would call a’ race realist,’ i.e., a believer in white supremacy. He has made remarks that support that perspective many times. A mentor Lauren cites, sci-fi writer Jerry Pournelle, is also known to hold racist views.
We don’t need gun control we need nut control.
Gun control is one way to control the amount of damage done by nuts.
#83
Apparently not since gun control in this case did nothing but make the damage worse.
170-plus shots fired in 9 minutes. How do people rationalize that? I still don’t get why the average person needs that kind of fire power? For hunting? for protection? I think that’s bull.